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Making a Case for Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I know a lot of you want him gone after this season and honestly, I think I'd prefer moving on as well. But how do you replace a QB with a 99 QBR who currently ranks #11 in the league?

    For instance, we were all excited watching Cutler play his first game in Miami as he handled the pocket like a boss. He had that beautiful side-step to evade the rush and buy an extra second...and I instantly fell in love with Jay freaking Cutler. But then we saw the other side of the coin....low effort, poor decisions, etc. and we realized why one of the NFL's strongest arms of all time never became a household name. He didn't have Tannehill's passion, drive or vision.

    Along came Ozweiller and I thought the same thing- he's a smart, coachable quarterback that has the entire skill set. There's nothing Oz seems to do badly.....yet he just doesn't have Tannehill's skill, arm strength or talent.

    In both cases, all we could think of as a fan base was, "I can't wait for Tannehill to return from injury." After all, he won 6 of 7 before going down in 2016 and he started the year 3-0. His worst game of 2018 was when he re-injured the shoulder and the kid is so tough, he didn't even tell the team about it...he just kept playing in pain. Once he finally got back on the field, he rattled off a few more wins in safe RT form.

    I personally don't think Tannehill will ever handle a collapsing pocket correctly and I doubt that he ever manages to crack the elite "top 5" in the league. But folks, Ryan Tannehill is clearly one of the better QB's out there because he's HIGHLY coachable and does everything by the book. His arm strength and talent are off the charts and I think with the right coach (and especially the right line), he's about as elite as you'll find in free agency.

    This week we've compared Tannehill to names like Bridgewater and Foles. I honestly don't know if either QB is "better" for Miami....they're definitely not more talented. And that makes me wonder if this is a "grass is greener on the other side" type of scenario where we're ready to let a top talent walk simply because the team is headed for another 8-8 season.

    After all, what has Tannehill personally done "wrong" in his last 20 or so starts? He did throw a pick-6 last week on a bad read, and of course he had that horrible two-pick game when he injured the shoulder. But that's definitely not the Tannehill we've come to expect since his accuracy has been excellent this season and he's making nothing but good decisions on 99% of his drop-backs.

    Do we wish he was better in the pocket? OMG yes! But when we look back, his only real mistakes over the past three seasons have come on protection breakdowns where he was either running for his life or taking a blind hit in the pocket.

    Before you pass final judgement on Ryan Tannehill, I ask you to consider one simple thing- how much does he do unscripted? Because if your answer is "not much", then your problem is really with Gase instead of our quarterback. I'll say it again, Tannehill does EXACTLY what he's told to do on any given down.

    Do we wish he was more exciting? YES Do we wish he was more aggressive? YES Those are coaching decisions though, not our quarterback being inept.

    The only true negative you can say about Tannehill is that he doesn't handle pressure as well as he should. Are we really willing to let a top-10 QB walk because his 2nd string line has played horrible for the past decade?

    On occasion, we've seen rare glimpses of Ryan Tannehill "unchained" where he was told to just go win the game regardless of the costs. Think of his last 3-4 Patriots games where he absolutely balled out...that's the guy you want to replace because the coach doesn't let him play that way more often. Fire the coach...sure....but keep the stud QB one more year under a leader that will let him ball out.

    I 100% agree with you that we need a new play-caller in Miami, but I'm just not convinced that there's anyone better to execute for us on the field. So before you decide once and for all to move on from #17, it may be a good time to think about what you're giving up to bring in a new quarterback with less skill and far less discipline.

    Folks, Ryan Tannehill is the man....even if his coach treats him like a boy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  2. Dolphins1372

    Dolphins1372 Guest

    Isn’t tannehill part of the reason we are never good or bad. We are mediocre like him. I would rather have a losing season with a rookie and get some good draft picks in 2020. As it is with tanny on the team. We will go 8-8 again and not get the good draft picks. Top 3 pick next year could really help us out? Better than the 15th pick. And I don’t hate tannehill. I just don’t have confidence in him anymore.
     
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  3. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    I have been a Tannehill supporter all along but recently I made up my mind that, unfortunately, he simply is not the answer. He never really progressed as far as pocket awareness, quickness is concerned. That's vital for today's NFL QB. Like many fans before me mentioned Tannehill needs all the parts in place to be an above average QB. He's not one to lift the team to victories on talent alone. He's talented and his toughness cant be questioned but I firmly believe his ceiling has been reached and will never reach the next level. I like Tannehill but he is what he is, and it's not enough. We need more.
     
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  4. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Can you tell me ONE top 5 or even top 10 draft pick in Dolphins history that alone resulted in a Super Bowl championship?

    I’ll even go one better and expand that to the entire NFL but be aware, you need to be able to articulate your opinion clearly as to why...

    I ask this question for the simple fact that if having a pick in the top 5 of the draft was so crucial and significant to a team’s success, then the Detroit Lions would be the juggernaut of the NFL as they’ve had a top 5 or top 10 draft pick for virtually every year in the Super Bowl era
     
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  5. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    It's a lot easier to let a QB go than to find one better.The team should always look to improve but to find a great QB is not so simple.
     
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  6. Drizzy

    Drizzy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You’ve gotta be kidding me.

    But if Tannehill is as good as you think he is then we should be flooded with great offers for the guy this offseason, which is good for us.

    Under no circumstances should Tannehill be here next year. I’m sure Ross at least will make sure of that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  7. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I think if we keep Tannehill you HAVE to protect him in the pocket at all costs.The man can avoid pressure enough if its not a free for all.

    Don't mistake this for me saying he's elite...he's not and never will be. There are things he does well though.

    Let me ask you guys a question in fact. Insert Tannehill on our Jay Fiedler led teams, hell our Gus Frerotte and Culpepper led teams if you want to be a tiny bit more recent since the game has changed some admittedly. Do you think those teams are better?

    So my end all be all? Ryan Tannehill won't put the team on his shoulders solo, but if we can somehow give him a little boost I think we will all be much happier with him.
     
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  8. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Did you know the Bill's unloaded Tyrod Taylor with a Qb rating of 99.7 last year?
    The Bill's knew they weren't ever going to win a championship with this guy so they traded him.Qb rating a flawed stat.Time to move on.I will take a 4-12 season next year if we can get a real Qb in 2020.Whats the point of his ceiling being 10-6 and first rd playoff exit..
     
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  9. Not So Fast

    Not So Fast Well-Known Member

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    While it is more expensive, I think the best option is to retain Tannehill and draft/sign QBs to compete with him. Brock Osweiler and David Fales are not doing that. If that doesn't work, then you can scrap it all and start fresh in 2020.
     
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  10. Drizzy

    Drizzy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not to mention his rating plunges when you take away the two jet sweep TDs to Grant and Wilson and the play against the Pats where he threw a 15 yard pass that 3 different players combined to take 70 yards to the house.

    Going into Week 16 he’d have been 21st in passer rating, obviously he stunk it up against the Jags so that ranking is probably even lower now.
     
  11. Dolphins1372

    Dolphins1372 Guest

    I was just thinking back to when we went 1-15 and got ronnie brown. And other good players. You cant waste your picks. Like Detroit did. They still have to count. But you get a lot better choices. And we need a lot better players. Those high picks seemed to help cleveland last year. Cause they finally drafted good. Does one pick ever get you superbowl championship? Its a team game.
     
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  12. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

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    Bah, keep Tannehill and keep Gase, what do I care. I'm intravenously wired up to a vat of Kool Aid, so what's another one or two years of mediocrity after the last 30....?

    Hic!
     
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  13. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Here is the real reason we should keep Tannehill. His darn contract. We are going to have to pay him $13 mil to not play for us next year. If I knew with 100% certainty we were going to draft a QB, I would say, "Let Tannehill be the bridge QB." To me, it would be silly to pay Fitzmagic or someone similar $10~ mil per year to come in, be a first time QB in our system, and possibly lose the starting job midway through the season. I would rather keep Tannehill and his experience with players/scheme, and wait for the rookie to be good enough to play AND for our o-line to be good enough to keep him upright.

    It would make sense to bounce him if we went the Bridgewater, Carr, Flacco direction or if we could get draft compensation for him.
     
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  14. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I really don't understand our fans.

    All the replacement ideas I've seen thrown around have performed worse or similar to Tannehill but since they haven't played here there is envy to have them.

    Flacco....really? Bridgewater is a guaranteed upgrade? Stafford????
     
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  15. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    Tannehill has all the physical tools, but sometimes it's about a guy who can make others around him better. I think any of the guys you mentioned can run Gase's offense as good as Tannehill. The question is can they read defenses and check us into a better play or are they going to sit back there like a sitting duck and take a sack?
     
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but if you give him a few of the deep passes to Stills that were missed, then he's top 7. You can't play the "add a few, take a few away" with something statistical and expect it to be taken seriously. His rating is what it is regardless how much/little he did on any given play to deserve it.
     
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  17. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    So, we need to pay Tanny $26 million while giving Bridgewater $10 million to come in and compete with him? Maybe spend that first round pick on a QB for even more competition?

    Does that seem like a realistic plan for 2019?

    What about trading Tanny for a pick or two, getting Bridgewater for $10 million for a year, draft the BPA on defense with our first rounder and seeing how the season goes? You could even keep Gase so only the QB needs to get up to speed on the offense and the other offensive players could help him along.
     
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  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's always been my biggest knock on him...he's not a natural leader like Moore or Oz. I mean, he is a leader in that he's tough and there for his teammates, but I don't think he has that alpha male gene to take over a room and inspire others. He's an incredible athlete but he's also a follower.....hence why he does EXACTLY as instructed at all times. That's both a good and a bad trait.
     
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  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't mind keeping Gase to groom a new QB (rookie or vet), but I DON'T WANT him calling plays since it will be the same conservative stuff we see with Tannehill. If you keep Gase in his current position, then absolutely nothing changes by swapping QB's unless they're a really talented scrambler.
     
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  20. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    You summed it up beautifully on why I would like to try and get someone else if we can. In a game of inches, sometimes a little inspiration can make a big difference. I also wonder if Gase has misplaced his ability to inspire. I miss the year one Gase.
     
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  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I mean, I'm so on the fence here. If you swap Dak Prescott and Tannehill, RT likely wins 14 games in Dallas behind that awesome line and falls into consideration for comeback of the year honors. Dak probably wins 9 games in Miami and we'd have the exact same story.....the line sucks and the D is way too inconsistent. If you swapped him with Russell Wilson, then Tannehill's numbers plummet but he still wins 8-9 games with a great D setting the tone. And if you swapped RT with Brady, I think RT becomes Super Bowl MVP as he dominates for a decade.

    If we do cut Tannehill, he will be a New England Patriot within hours of being released and he will thrive in their system.

    I just don't think the QB is the real problem here....its the protection and the system in general. We're so focused on gimmick plays and outsmarting opponents that we don't just line up and let our talent win. That's 99% on Gase and his play calling and 1% on Tannehill.

    Remember, we've lost 4 games this year we were winning in the 4th quarter. We could EASILY be 11-4 right now with a better 4th quarter game plan on both sides of the ball...I just can't pin that on the quarterback. When we run the ball on 3rd and 10 late in the 4th, you'd have to be a moron to think that the QB lost the game....and we've done that repetitively. The real problems are Gase and Burke.

    And don't even get me started on how many late 4th quarter drives we've extended on penalties on defense...that's also a sign of weak coaching. 18 months ago most of us would have said Reshad Jones was our favorite player....maybe we should take a hint from the guy and realize that changes need to be made on the sideline.
     
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  22. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    See I think slightly the opposite on one point.

    I think due to injury we lack the talent to line up and win. If you have one bad guard the center can shade one direction....what when you have two and a bad center too?

    Stills isn't a #1 and Parker is a bust as far as I'm concerned. Our backs are good but inconsistent because the blocking isn't always there.

    Our TE are rookies and that position is tough to develop into historically speaking.

    Our offense was predicated on the fact we could score from anywhere on the field with Wilson or Grant at any time and our line started strong. After that fell apart....you know.
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't think people realize this but Grant was BY FAR our most efficient scorer last year....he had less than 50 touches but averaged over 20 yards per snap (if I remember right, it was like 28 yards per touch.....a ridiculous number). Wilson only made him better this year and it's just not the same offense without them, so I understand that we've had to re-write the playbooks on the fly. I've said before that 8-8 is really an awesome year under the circumstances.

    I watched a decent bit of tape over the holiday break though and we've had paths to winning despite our setbacks. I'm still not anti-Gase (due to the injuries) but I do second guess a lot more of what he did looking back now. There's almost a game within the game on every offensive snap and I just feel that he was out of touch at times on what the opponent was giving us.

    So I'm really on the fence with everyone but Burke....yet I can hear Gase's speech in my head on why he deserves another year as well. We started out great on D and had a huge talent drop once a few starters went down. Plus rookie LB's, a turnstile at corner when you have one of the best around on the bench, etc. I personally think Gase shares more blame for the offense struggling than Burke does on the defense.....if that makes any sense.
     
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  24. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Making the case for Ryan Tannehill is making the case for another year of mediocrity. We are better off rolling the dice with an unknown or a backup than finishing 8-8 again next year with Ryan.

    Tannehill's time is up in Miami, much like it was for Suh. As with Suh, the drop off wasn't as bad as predicted, assuming Gase doesn't go for the bottom of barrel guys like Brock or Cutler.

    Addition by subtraction is my stance on Tannehill. Time to move on, he's had more than enough time to develop and bringing a second tier QB won't move the ball forward or back in a discernible manner.
     
  25. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Good case, counselor. However, i think we just have to have an injection of some new blood, some new hope. It has been a very long time with Tanne at the helm and whilst he has had some good stretches and his overall numbers are ok, it's the crumbling in big games, crumbling on 3rd downs and crumbling in the red zone that would make it very difficult for me to move forward with him.
     
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  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Key..

    What is the sense of keeping a qb unless you trust that he can go out on the road, in a hostile environment, in the playoffs, and win..

    broken record here but he cannot feel, see, or deal with a compromised pocket..

    When you are on the road the apex of pressure is going to inevitably be there, winning qbs will make an individual play on the road when the fans are screaming and the pocket collapses at critical times, which then flips the pressure onto the home team.That’s how you win big games on the road in hostile environments..

    Tannehill does not possess these abilities and therefore it’s not a coincidence that we haven’t seen what I’m talking about in 7 years, hence being horrible on the road, hence being a horrible third down qb, hence not going to the playoffs or, winning those big games on the road.

    When your on the road, it’s harder to play strict script football..

    I would doing jumping Jacks if we could get a fourth round pick for him..that’s what backup QBs are going for.
     
  27. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I'm almost at the point that I want Gase and Tannehill go so they can succeed for a normal franchise. Lets go back to spending another decade searching for a QB that doesn't flat out suck. Can't wait for the next Joey harrington.

    The dolphins have to be the only team in the history of the NFL who can go a decade without being able to build an average oline for more than a few games. We have had a poor below average oline for almost a decade now. That is mind boggling.

    I'm starting to think that the reason our fans so easily dismiss this as a problem is because they forgot what a good line looks like.

    If it's me I keep Tannehill until he has one season behind a line ranked 16th or better and one that lasts through the entire season not a couple of games. Or unless he gets injured again and I keep Gase around until he has one season where half our team isn't in a hospital

    You know what's funny. The saints lost their lineman armstead week 11. Immediately the offense tanked for the next three weeks. The guy who replaced aemstead....jermon bushrod..... lol. That's how toxic Miami linemen are. Add just one to a new Orleans line and turn Brees into Keenum
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Here's how I see it....and I'm using the perspective of fans like you, Resnor and others who were once very high on Tannehill-

    When Gase came to Miami, we were all excited. He could fix RT's footwork in the pocket to get the most out of him. And that's mostly what we saw....after a 1-5 collapse, we were one of the better teams in the league until Tannehill went down.

    In 2017, our excitement was over Tannehill returning healthy....it would finally be the year we could fully evaluate him and silence all the doubters. Yet he never made it out of pre-season and we suffered through the Cutler era. We heard that year on the bench helped Tannehill mature though and really see the bigger picture, so it was exciting going into 2018. No more excuses!

    Only, down he goes again after starting 3-0 and having one God-awful game with the hurt shoulder. We once again saw what an average QB looked like in Osweiller, and Tannehill's return has been SOLID for the past month besides a single pick-6. Now, we haven't been aggressive with him at all and a lot's been held back as he got back into game-shape, but the kid has been the same dependable QB that you guys saw in 2015. Same problems too behind a patchwork line....but he's done pretty darn good under the circumstances considering our top two receivers are out of commission.

    With all that said, how can you say you were wrong about 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 when you never got a full season of Tannehill/Gase? Every great QB in the league has spent several years with their coach and built a chemistry with his favorite targets. Tannehill has none of that- Amendola and Stills are his only targets and they're both WR3's at best in this league. Stills working the middle of the field just doesn't work....which has been plainly obvious lately.

    I personally think I need to see one full season with RT/Gase to pass judgement. If the linemen fall next season then so be it. If our top receivers get hurt then I'll live with it. But after 7 years of waiting, I think we deserve to see four solid months of game-planning and execution like you'd give any other coach/QB combo.

    After all, how can you expect consistency when NOTHING has been consistent? I just don't see the logic on calling something broken before you give it a fair shake.
     
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  29. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'm just finding it a bit funny we are the people who say "Brady folds if you pressure him" and **** like that, but Tannehill is supposed to shake off 6 sacks, reverse field 7 times and throw a hail mary TD every play.
     
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  30. Dolphins1372

    Dolphins1372 Guest

    I believe gase didn’t have confidence in tannehill? Thats why the runs on 3rd and 10. Week 5 in cincinatti he trusted tannehill and tannehill blew the game. Cant use missing offensive lineman for an excuse. As he should of been aware of that. At least throw the ball away and punt. Not fumble and int. That was hard to take for me.
     
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  31. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    There is no doubt in my mind that I believe Gase and our OL have failed Tannehill. However, a lot of it he brings upon himself. The guy has practically zero pocket presence and can't see a blitz until it is in his face and by then it's too late.
     
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  32. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I’m pretty much in line with keyfin.
    In my lifetime I’ve seen inferior QBs than Tannehill win superbowls, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, the 2015 version of Peyton Manning, and Jeff Hostetler for example. What did all of those guys have in common? The rest of the team performed at elite levels. You also have QBs like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco who I would consider to be generally inferior but have gone on wild hotstreaks during the playoffs while supported by a very good defense and run game.

    For me that’s the kind of talent/support that Tannehill needs to win a SB. He won’t win a barnstormer when the defense doesn’t show up, he won’t extend plays like crazy with jailbreaks, he won’t read a broken route and throw to an uncovered receiver.

    I firmly believe that in a disciplined environment, like NE, Tannehill would put up numbers that would be considered elite.

    The problem is that
    1) it’s a harder to find and keep an elite team than it is to find and keep an elite QB.
    2) Coaching/FO in Miami are not condusive to a disciplined environment.
     
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  33. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Wow.. I get off the plane and see this thread lol.

    OK, first thing. KeyFin, you gotta make up your mind man! It's like every week (or less than that) you wobble from one position to another. Not long ago you said you were completely done with Gase and Tannehill, and since then you've wobbled back and forth lol. So I guess this thread is just what you think at the moment and not necessarily in a few days. Will be interesting to see what you think after Buffalo.

    Anyway, as already stated many times before it's certainly possible to build a consistent winner around an average QB like Tannehill, but almost no recent SB winner has done that. Really, in the last 25 years only the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2015 Broncos won with a below average QB. Otherwise, the SB winning QB was either elite or played elite in the playoffs.

    What does that tell us? That playing the odds implies we need to replace Tannehill if you want to win the SB irrespective of any other positive qualities he has. And in case it's lost on some people, that SB-winning QB stat says it's easier to find that prototypical SB winning QB than it is to build up the rest of the team to SB caliber. I've said this before but if we had only gambled every 3 years or so on finding that QB since Marino retired, we'd be set, contrary to where we're at right now.

    Oh, and let's not entertain the idea that Tannehill is likely to play elite in the playoffs like Flacco or Foles did. This is the guy that has often crapped the bed in big games, like against the Jets and Bills in 2013 where all we needed to do was win one and we make the playoffs. Same thing (not as bad as 2013 though) happened against Minnesota and Jacksonville this year.

    Sorry man, if you want to play the odds get rid of Tannehill. And if you want to play the odds, get rid of Gase too.
     
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  34. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Unless this is a strawman question with the use of the phrase "alone resulting in a SB", I'd say the best example is Peyton Manning who was picked #1 in 1998 draft. I don't think any deep argument is required here. Indy doesn't turn into a consistent playoff team, nor would it likely have won a SB without Manning. Just imagine had they chosen the QB that was picked right after Manning: Ryan Leaf lol.
     
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  35. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I'm looking forward to not having to discuss this QB any longer.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For a few it seems they will take the stance that it’s not about him, he’ll be successful once he leaves..
     
  37. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    9,742
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    Sep 28, 2015
    If he goes to the right system then sure.

    I won't say he will ever be a top level QB, but he can be serviceable with a handful of solid NFL coaches.....also something he has never had.

    Dude may retire for all we know, it's no secret he has a passion for the medical field and I have no doubts he has been smart with his money.
     
  38. Dolphins1372

    Dolphins1372 Guest

    I look forward to bragging about my qb.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dec 20, 2007
    What would you be bragging about?
     
  40. Dolphins1372

    Dolphins1372 Guest

    Uh? How good they are. When we finally get one. I used to love arguing about my quarterback being the best. It’s got to happen sometime before i die? I hope?
     

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