wow, just wow.... so much to discuss... plenty of time to do it... what a season.. what a crazy friggin season. Did anyone else notice that Jacob "touched" all the Losties that he visited, including Locke whom he apparently brought back to life after he fell out that window... ponder that! And that was an interesting book Jacob was reading as Locke fell out that window... something to research in the offseason.
so are jacob and his 'enemy' not at the top of the island food chain? who did he mean by "they" are coming? do richard and ilana represent a higher power than them? hmmmmmm i'm gonna have to watch that one again and again
I've actually read "Everything That Rises ..." by Flannery O'Connor. She's a fascinating writer, dealing with what she referred to as "the grotesque." The book in question is actually a collection of her short stories. Said O'Connor, ""All my stories are about the action of grace on a character who is not very willing to support it." Interesting, no? Also interesting is the fact the title is itself a reference to a quote by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit priest who also happened to be a paleontologist, and was thus continually balancing faith and science(!). He abandoned traditional interpretations of creation in the Book of Genesis in favor of a less strict interpretation. Two interesting things. This "they are coming" mantra mirrors the end of season 3, in which Charlie warned the castaways about the coming of the freighter folk. It also mirrors the observation Jacob and his adversary make about another ship (the Black Rock?) in the distance. It makes me wonder if the Ajira folks are descendents of the Black Rock crew -- or even the crew itself -- who ended up as followers of Jacob.
Yes, Ricardos, Captain of the Black Rock What lies in the shadow of the statue? "Our leader, he who will save us all." According to most fan sites. or "That which we protect." According to TVGuide.com
Interesting theory........... When you refer to Locke and the smoke monster are you referring to fake Locke (Esau)??? Because OG Locke came in contact with the monster several times. Maybe he was trying to replace OG Locke from the get go. Anyone know the story of Jacob and Esau? There are quite a few good Biblical theories going around right now.
Some interesting stuff The boys displayed very different natures as they matured. "Esau became a hunter, a man of the field, but Jacob was a simple man, a dweller in tents" (Genesis 25:27). Moreover, the attitudes of their parents toward them also differ: "Isaac loved Esau because game was in his mouth, but Rebecca loved Jacob" Esua the hunter, same as Locke Jacob a simple tent dweller, sounds like the others? [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob[/ame]
I originally thought the Bad Locke was Whitmore with Plastic Surgery. Getting back to the island finally.
And perhaps more fitting with all the hieroglyphics is the Egyptian Mythology of Osiris, Seth, Ra, Horus,etc............ Osiris (Jacob) Seth (Fake Locke) Ra (Richard Alpert) Horus (Horace) Remember Locke's vision of Horace building the cabin in the jungle? Was the cabin for Fake Locke and not Jacob all this time??? Was Fake Locke asking real Locke for help? Was Ilana and Co. on the way to kill fake Locke and Help Jacob as he requested in her flash back??? Sounds good to me. Very interesting connections.... [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris[/ame]
Ok so what the hell is the smoke monster? Why does it exist? Why did Jacob interact with all of the 815ers? Why did they need to come to the island twice? Why did Locke have to die?
Thanks for the great references guys... Random thoughts / questions... I have always wondered who "Adam and Eve" were that the Losties found in the cave from season one... could they have been Rose and Bernard? Was that the Black Rock ship in the opening scene coming to the island? With all the talk about time travel and loopholes, was Jacob able to go back in time to affect each of the Losties? I guess why is he appearing to them at crucial stages in their lives? And why did he visit Locke TWICE (also, Richard visited Locke as well). Is each visit a separate instance, a separate travel thru time?? Are Jacob and his enemy from the future originally? Time travel is either going to be possible by one of two things, a future invention or from an outside world. I can't wait for next season... where are we going to pick up from? I was not expecting that opening scene between Jacob and Seth/Esau. I suppose we pick up with them somehow... why can't one directly kill the other...
Sure looks that way for both of those questions. Actually the way I took it and from what I've read its more of a "Immortal" thing than a time travel thing. If you remember Richard said "Jacob made me this way" when Locke said he had never seen someone not age. IMO, Jacob is the same way, almost Immortal which would fall in line with the Egyptian God references. I assumed the opening scene was from a long time ago, not the future, with the Black Rock coming in and the statue intact. I don't think it has anything to do with a future invention or outside world, everything thats happened so far leads more to ancient mythology.
Agreed, I think "They" are the ones who he visited and set on a path to help him or Ilana and crew which are doing basically the same thing. Which leads to this interesting theory I just read........
That there is some thought provoking stuff Motion... Ilana is an interesting character in that she recognized Jacob when he visited her in the hospital. If RA is Jacob's son, then who is mommy?
Yes, I'm referring to Flocke (fake Locke). I called Jacob and Esau too... Motion, did you ever hear of Al Trawig (or something like that)? His videos are over at DarkUFO. The guy sucks as a theorist, but he called the bad twin 2 weeks ago. He referenced the book, and when I saw the opener I said to myself, Jacob and Esau. I read a theory that said the loophole is the LEADER of the others killing Jacob. Everyone thought Locke was the leader, but he is really dead. Therefore, Ben is the leader. Ben can only kill Jacob. This fits my theory that FLocke set Ben up... P.S. How ****ing stupid is Jacob antagonizing Ben? I mean seriously... Ben will kill a *****, Jacob should know this. I REALLY hate what tptb are doing with Ben (who is my favorite character). I mean, REALLY hate it. I hate that he is a pawn. The guy is a sociopath... He should see angles no one else is seeing. He should of suspected something wasn't right. He should of known Flocke was manipulating him the moment he said "Why wouldn't you want to kill Jacob?!" That speech was pretty much straight from Ben's speech to John Locke when Ben wanted him to kill his father. Where does it leave Ben next season? Either he killed the leader and must A. snake his way out of it (say Flocke killed him, and he tried to stop it) or B. Get ****ed up. Either way, sooner or later. He is dead. Or time resets, and... what? I dunno... Either way, I hate the the fact Ben is backed into a corner. I had always hoped he would do evil things, but in the end, do one great thing to save the day. owell...
I'm not sure if you are giving Jacob enough credit here, he clearly has some pull and something special about him. Its almost like he gave in and knew Ben would be there to kill him. However, I firmly believe he has already set a plan in motion to pretty much "prevent what happened from actually happening" whether it be Jack and Co. and/or Ilana. "Flocke" was clearly worried when Jacob said "They're coming" before being kicked into the fire. Not to mention if you buy into the Egyptian Myth of Osiris theory, he rose from the dead in 3 days, kinda like Jesus. Too many coincidences. It is kinda crazy how far Ben has fallen, but you know how this show is, its not over til its over. Anyone else think there is a connection between Jacob and "Flocke" not being able to kill each other and Ben and Widmore not being able to kill each other? Hmmmmm........interesting.
The Smoke Monster is evil... Simply put. The smoke monster is the shape of the man in the dark shirt who talked to Jacob in the opening scene. I'm calling him Nemesis for now, as he is Jacob's nemesis. It exists to... I dunno. Rule the island? Really I have no idea. All I know is Nemesis didn't want people coming to the island and yet Jacob kept bringing them. Jacob interacted with the 815ers... I don't know. Maybe to bring them to the island? Why did they have to come back twice? They were never suppose to leave. Desmond changed the future by keeping Charlie alive, and then Charlie (who should of died numerous times) pushed the Looking Glass button to stop the jaming. Locke didn't have to die... He did for Nemesis's plan to work, but Locke never had to die. Locke died because Nemesis needed the body of the leader. Ben killed him out of jealousy, and when the body was brought back, Nemesis took that form (as he did with Alex, Christian, and others). With Locke's body, he would lead Jacob's tribe and could "request an audience". He then would use the real leader (Ben since Locke is really dead) to kill Jacob. My best guess...
Did anyone else laugh a bit when Ben said "I lied John, thats what I do" Its intresting to see him being manipulated for once. Why not call him Anti-Jacob?
Never crossed my mind. Good call. I've read people say Jacob acted as an Obi Wan Kenobi in that scene. Willing to be struck down for a greater purpose. Perhaps he knew what the 1977 crew was going to do and knew it would be for nothing. Ben really has fallen big time... It's one thing to kill Locke, it's another to kill Jacob. Obviously Jacob is hugely important, and Ben knows that... The latin translation from Richard indicates "The one who will save us all" or something like that, so Ben must realize his importance. Yet Ben just stabs the mother ****er... We know Darlton are big star wars guys... So If Jacob is Obi-Wan (the coach of Luke, aka John Locke), is Ben now Anakin? Ben's lust for power, need for approval, and so on, lead him to betray the Others (Jedi Order). If so, I'm hoping redemption will come in the form of a sacrifice like Vader did... But honestly, I don't know... We've seen Ben do good and bad in the drop of a hat, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. I just hate how this concluded for him. I read another theory for season 6, and it might be right. Anyone ever play the lost video game? Me neither.... Well, Darlton was asked to write the ending for the game, based on future events of the show (a teaser). The game ends with the man character (Elliot) leaving the island to tell his story... Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NclO...m/topic/51179?page=24&feature=player_embedded The swan's fail safe key is turned and the flash happens. The game ends with season 1 starting all over. Only this time, it's a different reality, because the woman who calls for Elliot in the end, was dead from the start of the game. Yet she is now alive. So the theory is season six will start from season 1... Perhaps a different reality with characters having their memories intact. Seems a lot like the finale for Fringe tbh, but who knows?
The whole act of Jacob touching the Losties is freaking me out... I'm thinking he made them immortal as long as they are on the island. I mean look at John... he was shot and left for dead in the mass grave, yet magically he was able to get up and all of a sudden is healed. Yet, Ben was able to kill John... albeit, OFF the island...
around other MB **************************************** In the opening scene Jacob tells black outfitted guy that "each time is progress" when talking about him having brought the Black Rock people to the island. It seems unlikely that Jacob would just randomly pick our Oceanic Six/Flight 815/Flight 316 people to be on the island now. I think he always picks the same people. Maybe like a reincarnation type of thing or at least different time threads that aren't aware of each other and that's why A) they are all connected off island B) the other group from Flight 316 already knew Jacob C) each time is "progress" b/c the same people come back and get closer to completing what their "destiny" is D) Jack only wants Kate in life even though he only knew her for 100+ days on the island ******************************************* When hurley is released from jail the officer at the desk gave him everything jacob gave/done for everyone. Hurley was givin a pen,money, and candy. Jacob gave jack the candy bar,paid for kates lunch box,and gave james the pen. ***************************************** Why in the world does Juliette's home as a child look thoroughly modern? She's from the FUTURE! my evidence? The book on the table, "Mysteries of the Ancient Americas" was published by Pleasantville, N.Y. : Reader's Digest Association, c1986!
In the midst of the awesomeness that is the finale, I forgot my previous theory.. Jack and co. didn't change the future. They would of created a paradox. If Jack stops 815 from crashing by changing the past, the future is changed. If the future is changed, Jack never crashes and Daniel never gets to the island and learns about Jughead. If all of those things never happen, there is no reason to change the future and thus they never do. Which means flight 815 will crash. When Desmond turned the fail safe key in the swan in the end of season 2, he got TT ability. My guess is that Jack and co. are transported back to 2007.
[Elizabeth Mitchell] will not be returning to Lost as a series regular. [...] Multiple sources confirm that the actress is expected to appear in an unspecified number of episodes next season, so it's entirely possible Juliet survived Jughead and her absence will be explained in another way.
http://io9.com/5283602/lost-will-kill-epic-television-claims-producer There will be an ending to our show and I trust it will be a stimulating, satisfying ending... "This show needs to be building toward a story finish. The audience can't feel like the creative wheels are spinning and critically, there were times during [earlier seasons] where we were critically, and in terms of our audience, getting busted for spinning wheels a little bit.
sure there will be an ending, but I'm still hoping for some complete mindfreak at the same time, you know? As much as I'd hate it, the show just wouldn't be 'right' without some mind blowing reveal and the end that makes you go "WAIit!! nooo!! explain that pleleeeeesasseeeee!!!!"
