Letter to the 6 billionth person

10 replies

anlgpanlgpNew MemberOP
Aug 1, 2009, 12:26 AM

What follows is an article taken from here: http://dailyrumination.blogspot.com/2008/08/salman-rushdie-letter-to-6-billionth.html. I don't know if this is the origin of the piece or not but that is where I saw it.

edit: this is the wikipedia of the man who wrote it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie

As you'll soon see the piece deals with two questions I'm sure we've all asked ourselves: "How did we get here?" and "And, now that we are here, how shall we live?" It is slated towards a decidedly atheist viewpoint.

The article:

Dear little Six - Billionth Living Person: As one of the newest members of a notoriously inquisitive species, it probably won't be too long before you start asking the two $64,000 questions with which the other 5,999,999,999 of us have been wrestling for some time.
How did we get here? And, now that we are here, how shall we live?

Oddly - as if six billion of us weren't enough to be going on with - it will almost certainly be suggested to you that the answer to the question of origins requires you to believe in the existence of a further, invisible, innefable Being "somewhere up there", an omnipotent creature whom we poor limited creatures are unable even to perceive, much less to understand. That is, you will be strongly encouraged to imagine a heaven, with at least one god in residence.

This sky god, it's said, made the universe by churning its matter in a giant pot. Or, he danced. Or, he vomited creation out of himself. Or, he simply called it into being, and lo, it Was. In some of the more interesting creation stories, the singly mighty sky god is subdivided into many lesser forces - junior dieties, avatars, gigantic metamorphic "ancestors" whose adventures create the landscape, or the whimsical, wanton, meddling, cruel pantheons of the great polytheisms, whose wild doings will convince you that the real engine of creation was lust; for infinite power, for too easily broken human bodies, for clouds of glory. But it's only fair to add that there are also stories which offer the message that the primary creative impulse was, and is, love.

Many of these stories will strike you extremely beautiful, and therefore seductive. Unfortunately, however, you will not be required to make a purely literary response to them. Only the stories of dead religions can be appreciated for their beauty. Living religions require much more of you. So you will be told that belief in "your" stories, and adherence to the rituals of worship that have grown up around them, must become a vital part of your life in the crowded world. They will be called the heart of your culture, even of your individual identity.

It is possible that they may at some point come to feel inescapable, not in the way that the truth is inescapable, but in the way that a jail is. They may at some point cease to feel like the texts in which human beings have tried to solve a great mystery, and feel, instead, like the pretexts for other properly anointed human beings to order you around. And it's true that human history is full of the public oppression wrought by the charioteers of the gods.

In the opinion of religious people, however, the private comfort that religion brings more than compensates for the evil done in its name.

As human knowledge has grown, it has also become plain that every religious story ever told about how we got here is quite simply wrong. This, finally, is what all religions have in common. They didn't get it right. There was no celestial churning, no maker's dance, no vomiting of galaxies, no snake or kangaroo ancestors, no Valhalla, no Olympus, no six-day conjuring trick followed by a day of rest. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

But here's something genuinly odd. The wrongness of the sacred tales hasn't lessened the zeal of the devout in the least. If anything, the sheer out-of-step zaniness of religion leads the religious to insist ever more stridently on the importance of blind faith.

As a result of this faith, by the way, lt has proved impossible, in many parts of the world, to prevent the human race's numbers from swelling alarmingly. Blame the overcrowded planet at least partly on the misguidedness of the races spiritual guides. In your own lifetime, you may witness the arrival of the nine billionth world citizen.

(If too many people are being born as a result, in part, of religious strictures against birth control, then too many people are also dying because religious culture, by refusing to face the facts of human sexuality, also refuses to fight against sexually transmitted diseases.)

There are those who say that the great wars of the new century will once again be wars of religion, jihads and crusades, as they were in the Middle Ages. I don't believe them, or not in the way they mean it. Take a look at the Muslim world, or rather the Islamist world, to use the word coined to describe Islam's present day "political arm". The divisions between its great powers (Afghanistan against Iran against Iraq against Saudi Arabia against Syria against Egypt) are what strike you most forcefully. There's very little resembling a common purpose. Even after the non-Islamic NATO fought a war for the Muslim Kosovan Albanians, the Muslim world was slow in coming forward with much needed humanitarian aid.

The real wars of religion are the wars religions unleash against ordinary citizens within their "sphere of influence." They are wars of the godly against the largely defenceless - American fundamentalists against pro-choice doctors, Iranian mullahs against their country's Jewish minority, Hindu fundamentalists in Bombay against that city's increasingly fearful Muslims.

The victors in that war must not be the closed-minded, marching into battle with, as ever, God on their side. To choose unbelief is to choose mind over dogma, to trust in our humanity instead of all these dangerous divinities. So, how did we get here? Don't look for the answer in story books. Imperfect human knowledge may be a bumpy, pot-holed street, but it's the only road to wisdom worth taking. Virgil, who believed that the apiarist Aristaeus could spontaneously generate new bees from the rotting carcess of a cow, was closer to a truth about origins than all the revered old books.

The ancient wisdoms are modern non-senses.

Live in your own time, use what we know and, as you grow up, perhaps the human race will finally grow up with you and put aside childish things. As the song says, "It's easy if you try."

As for mortality, the second great question - how to live? What is right action, and what wrong?- it comes down to your willingness to think for yourself. Only you can decide if you want to be handed down the law by priests, and accept that good and evil are somehow external to ourselves.

To my mind, religion - even at its most sophisticated - essentially infantalizes our ethical selves by setting infallible moral Arbiters and irredeemably immoral Tempters above us; the eternal parents, good and bad, light and dark, of the supernatural realm.

How, then, are we to make ethical choices without a divine rulebook or judge? Is unbelief just the first step on the long slide into the brain death of cultural relativism, according to which many unbearable things - female circumcision, to name just one - can be excused on culturally specific grounds, and the universality of human rights, too can be ignored?
(This last piece of moral unmaking finds supporters in some of the world's most authoritarian regimes, and also, unnervingly, on the editorial page of the Daily Telegraph,UK.)

Well, no, it isn't, but the reasons for saying so aren't clear-cut. Only hard-line ideology is clear-cut. Freedom, which is the word I use for the secular-ethical position, is inevitably fuzzier. Yes, freedom is that space in which contradiction can reign, it is a never-ending debate. It is not in itself the answer to the question of morals, but the conversation about that question. And it is much more than mere relativism, because it is not merely a never-ending talk show, but a place in which choices are made, values defined and defended.

Intellectual freedom, in European history, has mostly meant freedom from the restraints of the Church and not the state.

This is the battle Voltaire was fighting, and it's also what all six billion of us could do for ourselves, the revolution in which each of us could play our small, six-billionth part; once and for all we could refuse to allow priests, and the fictions on whose behalf they claim to speak, to be the policemen of our liberties and behavior. Once and for all we could put the stories back into the books, put the books back on the shelves, and see the world undogmatized and plain.

Imagine there's no heaven, my dear Six-Billionth, and at once the sky's the limit.

I have read this twice now. Once when I first found it and once while writing this post. My own religious convictions are a little scattered at the moment. I'm not exactly sure what to believe. I think the article is well written despite the over usage of what I call "dictionary words".

The meaning of the article is simple enough to me. At the current moment I'm trying to decipher where I stand on it. I think it makes some valid points and I also believe it is shoving a view point onto a yet unborn individual. I think this is unfair.

For someone like myself who is seeking answers to come upon something like this is one thing. For someone to post this to an unborn person saying that religion is wrong and that we should put the "stories back into the books, put the books back on the shelves, and see the world undogmatized and plain" seems a little unfair to the unborn for several reasons.

1) They say to "Live in your own time, use what we know and, as you grow up, perhaps the human race will finally grow up with you and put aside childish things". If the person does not know religion how can they decide against it?

2) They say "To choose unbelief is to choose mind over dogma, to trust in our humanity instead of all these dangerous divinities". To choose unbelief is to make a personal choice that either A) you never agreed with what was going on in the first place or B) you gave it a shot for yourself and didn't agree to what was going on. It should never be "fred told me that dogma is ridiculous and so I'm steering clear of it".

3) They claim "it comes down to your willingness to think for yourself." The whole article seems aimed at trying to make the decision for the unborn; not giving it a chance to see what we as humans know both about ourselves and what we believe we know about the divine.

4) They claim that "If anything, the sheer out-of-step zaniness of religion leads the religious to insist ever more stridently on the importance of blind faith."

Which completely contradicts the Buddhist philosophy/spirituality as roughly quoted by the Buddha

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

I do agree with the article in that I have felt the following:

I have sometimes felt trapped by previous religious convictions. I've felt that because I enjoy reading a particular text of religious scripture that I must follow that path twenty four hours a day seven days a week. We all make mistakes and no one is perfect but subscribing to a particular doctrine not only shapes my spiritual life but it shapes my personal life as well. So long as I'm wanting to follow along side by side to whichever good book it was I may have slid up against that evening.

I do think that there are some places who take their spirituality too far. The fundimentalists for pro choice doctors is a great example.

I have more but this is all I can think of for now.

I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts one way or the other. Please keep it civil I really do not want this thread to be locked.

"A man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus, suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering great or little. Therefore, the "size" of human suffering is absolutely relative." - Viktor Frankl

Aug 1, 2009, 08:39 AM

Honestly, my first thought as I read this was "Get one little death sentence against you and you lose your sense of humor!" Rusdie has of course had a death sentence from his "Satanic Verses" for what 20-30 years now?

At one level I understand what he is attempting. He has seen "faith" run amok more than most folks have. And I suppose an argument could be made that if the problem is most folks haven't truly followed their faith then if a faith is that hard to follow what sense does it make to try?

Yet, Rusdie still tries to have an ethic for humanity without a religious underpining and I don't think that works.

I remain a practicing Chjristian who strives daily to understand my place in creation and what to do about it. Following the faith is not easy and I forgo the simple rationalazations which lead to crusades. Following a dogma/doctrine/sacred texts is hard but I believe doing it well and faithfully is the right thing to do and ultimately is better for that creation.

Thanks for the chance to have this discussion. I regret I will be away for three weeks and will miss most of it.

OHIOPHINPHAN
Witness to the first ever practice of the Miami Dolphins, 1966.

anlgpanlgpNew Member
Aug 1, 2009, 09:11 AM

"Ohiophinphan wrote:

Honestly, my first thought as I read this was "Get one little death sentence against you and you lose your sense of humor!" Rusdie has of course had a death sentence from his "Satanic Verses" for what 20-30 years now?

At one level I understand what he is attempting. He has seen "faith" run amok more than most folks have. And I suppose an argument could be made that if the problem is most folks haven't truly followed their faith then if a faith is that hard to follow what sense does it make to try?

Yet, Rusdie still tries to have an ethic for humanity without a religious underpining and I don't think that works.

I remain a practicing Chjristian who strives daily to understand my place in creation and what to do about it. Following the faith is not easy and I forgo the simple rationalazations which lead to crusades. Following a dogma/doctrine/sacred texts is hard but I believe doing it well and faithfully is the right thing to do and ultimately is better for that creation.

Thanks for the chance to have this discussion. I regret I will be away for three weeks and will miss most of it.

I will comment on this fully later but I did read it. I am up, my day is rolling and I have to leave for work in an hour which means breakfast, brushing and the usual.

If you are away and the discussion starts rolling come back and jump in wherever you find it at that time. Your discussion is eagerly anticipated.

"A man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus, suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering great or little. Therefore, the "size" of human suffering is absolutely relative." - Viktor Frankl

Aug 1, 2009, 09:38 AM

I leave tommorrow after worship for two weeks vacation and a week of our biennial Churchwide Assembly. I don't have a laptop and may not have computer access again until I get home, late on 8/24. If I do get access, I will check in on the discussion, Thanks again for posting this.

OHIOPHINPHAN
Witness to the first ever practice of the Miami Dolphins, 1966.

Fin DFin DForum Veteran
Aug 1, 2009, 11:11 AM

Interesting piece, gap.

First of all, writing to an unborn child is merely a literary device. In fact, this letter is for everyone but that child, so to label it unfair is missing the point.

Secondly, it tackles the great quandary of Atheists; how do you "convince" people to think for themselves? That's were the piece failed, because it can't be done.

Lastly, I agree with Ohio, Salman's Atheism does seem to be born of anger and mistrust of religion, based on the things he's witnessed.

However, that is not a true Atheist. Being an Atheist out of anger or hate is no different than being a Christian out of tradition...which is to say, pointless. Coming to gripes with humanity's purpose, is what finding a religion(or Atheism) is all about. If you've settled on one for any other reason than that, then you haven't found anything at all. And that search and destination is truly an individual experience.

gafinfangafinfanSupporter
Aug 1, 2009, 05:48 PM

While I believe everyone has the right to believe whatever they chose to believe. I question his right to give advise to anyone much less a new born after the following quote:

Live in your own time, use what we know and, as you grow up, perhaps the human race will finally grow up with you and put aside childish things.

Out of the 5,999,999,998 of the rest of us just what makes him think he is worthy or smart enough to make that judgement call? I'm sorry, but that kind of sarcasm only turns me off.


This is the only thing I’ve learned: There’s only us. There’s no them. Despots and authoritarians need to make a “them” to have a straw man whom you are against. If you need to make an enemy of “them,” you’ve lost the spirit of us. - Ken Burns of PBS

anlgpanlgpNew Member
Aug 2, 2009, 12:45 AM

As it has been pointed to me in this thread and elsewhere where I have posted this article it is not meant to be taken at literal value and should be taken symbolically. Of course it is not to the unborn child. That is ridiculous.

Many of my points still stand despite it not being written for the unborn child. If you take that equation out I still stand by my comments. It seems fueled by a particular viewpoint and also seems to thrust that viewpoint upon others, regardless of age.

"A man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus, suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering great or little. Therefore, the "size" of human suffering is absolutely relative." - Viktor Frankl

Fin DFin DForum Veteran
Aug 3, 2009, 12:45 AM

"anlgp wrote:

As it has been pointed to me in this thread and elsewhere where I have posted this article it is not meant to be taken at literal value and should be taken symbolically. Of course it is not to the unborn child. That is ridiculous.

Ok then what did you really mean by this, because I am confused:

"anlgp wrote:

For someone like myself who is seeking answers to come upon something like this is one thing. For someone to post this to an unborn person saying that religion is wrong and that we should put the "stories back into the books, put the books back on the shelves, and see the world undogmatized and plain" seems a little unfair to the unborn for several reasons.

Please understand, I'm not trying to insulting or combative. Its just, by waht you wrote, that seemed to me, what you meant.

"anlgp wrote:

Many of my points still stand despite it not being written for the unborn child. If you take that equation out I still stand by my comments. It seems fueled by a particular viewpoint and also seems to thrust that viewpoint upon others, regardless of age.

Yes. However, is it possible to right a piece like this without coming from a viewpoint and/or trying to convince someone of said viewpoint? Or am I discussing this on a -147 level and you're discussing it on a +798 level?

anlgpanlgpNew Member
Aug 3, 2009, 12:52 AM

"Finascious D wrote:

Ok then what did you really mean by this, because I am confused:

Please understand, I'm not trying to insulting or combative. Its just, by waht you wrote, that seemed to me, what you meant.

Yes. However, is it possible to right a piece like this without coming from a viewpoint and/or trying to convince someone of said viewpoint?

It is what I meant at the time. I thought about it and obviously it is not meant for an unborn child.

It is possible it could be more rhetoric than anything though that's not the way it comes off to me.

"A man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus, suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering great or little. Therefore, the "size" of human suffering is absolutely relative." - Viktor Frankl

gafinfangafinfanSupporter
Aug 3, 2009, 04:51 AM

"anlgp wrote:

As it has been pointed to me in this thread and elsewhere where I have posted this article it is not meant to be taken at literal value and should be taken symbolically. Of course it is not to the unborn child. That is ridiculous.

Many of my points still stand despite it not being written for the unborn child. If you take that equation out I still stand by my comments. It seems fueled by a particular viewpoint and also seems to thrust that viewpoint upon others, regardless of age.

Thats my point!:wink2: If you want to debate an issue, that is one thing, if you want to tell me how to think and add I'm stupid if I don't think that way then we have a real problem. Even if you have some valid points to make you've lost any standing with me that you might have gained before hand.


This is the only thing I’ve learned: There’s only us. There’s no them. Despots and authoritarians need to make a “them” to have a straw man whom you are against. If you need to make an enemy of “them,” you’ve lost the spirit of us. - Ken Burns of PBS

anlgpanlgpNew Member
Aug 3, 2009, 09:54 AM

"gafinfan wrote:

Thats my point!:wink2: If you want to debate an issue, that is one thing, if you want to tell me how to think and add I'm stupid if I don't think that way then we have a real problem. Even if you have some valid points to make you've lost any standing with me that you might have gained before hand.

I agree. There are ways to come off sounding angry or upset towards religion without considering the rest of humanity stupid. Having issues with your own spirituality or people who practice spirituality as a whole is one thing. Condemning them all to stupidity is another. He obviously has an issue with both.

"A man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus, suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering great or little. Therefore, the "size" of human suffering is absolutely relative." - Viktor Frankl