Landry / Beckham Receiving Show

Are you serious right now?

You've taken my posts personally for quite some time and yet you routinely act very arrogant towards my responses which are reasonable in nature and quite respectful and you seem to want to argue semantics so I'm even giving you credit for pointing out a mistake in my logic.

Maybe you've gotten into the habit of reading my posts in a bad tone or something but I'd say you need to cool your jets for a minute and get over your emotional feelings towards me as a poster.

If you can't get over your feelings, just block my posts and don't read them instead of doing what you're doing here.

 

i never said he is. i said i believe he can surprise meaning i believe from watching him at LSU that he can do alot more than he was asked to do for us his rookie year

 

I had a similar bad start with DJ when I first joined this forum. DJ had the same opinion of me that you have now. He took some things to mean way more than they did and we disagreed in some of our first exchanges. I was actually quite insulted by how he chose to approach my posts--kind of tossing them aside as though I was a fool. It really indicated a lack of general respect and I took offense and probably argued for the sake of arguing when it came to our discussions.

That said, DJ and I now agree on a lot of things and I actually enjoy reading what he writes and can see why he's given credence on the forum. I hope in some way I've been able to change DJs mind about my thoughts. Sometimes as you get to know someone you realize that your preconceived conclusions about their being a fool are incorrect. Sometimes you just don't have the right context to put a particularly persons views into perspective. Some of us are young. Some are old. The perspective can vary wildly.

If you're willing to have some faith and move forward without the negative attitude then maybe you and I can see eye to eye in the future as DJ and I do now. I have no problem with that.



If you know that you're not going to be able to do that then by all means, please put me on block so that you're not enticed into conversating with me when you're just going to wind up calling me "lame."

I can have a conversation with you just fine but apparently you can't take me seriously. If you're not going to try and change that and you think it's best just to argue with someone while giving them "zero respect" then, well, that just seems like trolling to me.

If you don't respect my view and never will, then please block me.

 

I hope he does.

I like Jarvis Landry. It just seems like some fans want more out of him than he will be able to deliver and that seems almost unreasonable knowing his limitations.

Again, this is the NFL, not college where virtually anyone can play outside and be the leader of the team. Raw emotion works in college. It doesn't in the NFL. As shown last year, some NFL players respond to it and some won't. You can't rely on that alone.

A lot of this "leadership" stuff doesn't really win games unless the guys who are taking the leadership are actually good enough to win their battles.

I think Parker is a step up over Wallace. I think Stills and Jennings are a step (or two) up over Hartline.

That's what really matters to me and what I think will mean something in terms of wins and losses.


In my heart of hearts I certainly hope Landry is a long-time Dolphin and in some capacity a leader, if not the heart of the offense. The first guy I remember watching as a young fan was OJ McDuffie so I love Landry. I'd love to watch him evolve into more of a leader, I just don't think it's that serious a topic...not one that will affect how many wins the team has.

There are great leaders on bad teams every year. I hope Landry doesn't fall victim to being one of those guys, but because of his size and the position he plays, he easily could be if the team around him isn't great.

 

lol, that is a silly stance.

Leadership can come from anywhere, any size, any position. As a Dolphin fan, you should probably know better then to take this attitude.

Zach Mother****ing Thomas says hi.

 

ZT = LB

JL = Slot WR


I think there's a difference but maybe there's not, I don't know. I would think thought ZT had more directing to do in being an ILB where as JL really isn't directing anyone in operating out of the slot as a WR.

I'm not "hating" on Jarvis Landry, I love his attitude I just don't think it's critical to the team's success that he be anything more than a highly emotional, hard working player.

See my above post.

 

what if your not properly measuring football IQ and catch radius?..two things that have nothing to do with athleticism?

while i see your points about the NFL catching up to a college players limited speed, however, he does not lack pure athleticism, only blazing speed, within in his own range he can do anything athletically that anyone else can, what if the instincts he possesses, the speed for which his brain and body work together, the processor, the immaculate hands all combine to do something special at this level?....I see all these things he possesses and can tell this ceiling may be much higher than his speed and size usually determine.

what if??

 

I think he'd be a success if he stayed how he is right now. If he improves, great. Let's hope.

Honestly, there's nothing about Jarvis Landry I don't like right now. He's going to be a huge asset doing his thing inside with Tannehill in Lazor's offense. I'm just going by what he was last year. He is a certain guy and that's what he'll be moving forward.

What's there to argue about really?

I'd say the offense will run more through him than it did last year but that Jordan Cameron is going to steal some of those inside targets, particularly in the red zone. I don't know what they were exactly, but if Landry's totals were about 750 yards and 5 TDs last year I'd say he'll probably get 850-900 yards this year and about the same number of TDs.

I would expect Parker to basically get Wallace's numbers (maybe minus a few of the 10 TDs, but 800-900 yards sounds about right). I would expect that Stills and Jennings are going to easily eat up what Hartline and Gibson had and probably improve a bit on that.

I think Cameron is going to be the guy that surprises if he's healthy because he'll do what Clay did and more--both in yards and in TDs.

Somebody is going to disappoint unless Tannehill throws for like 4,500 yards to be quite honest. If that's the case, then yeah, we could see Parker, Landry and Cameron all have real big totals simultaneously which would be awesome.

 

nothing,I just don't want to prematurely cap his ceiling based on some speed and size issues, because Im not sure I've seen a player possess all the other traits in a package as this kid does.

 

I hope you're right...I hope he's more than good. I hope he is special.

Here's what I added above:



I'd say the offense will run more through him than it did last year but that Jordan Cameron is going to steal some of those inside targets, particularly in the red zone. I don't know what they were exactly, but if Landry's totals were about 750 yards and 5 TDs last year I'd say he'll probably get 850-900 yards this year and about the same number of TDs.

I would expect Parker to basically get Wallace's numbers (maybe minus a few of the 10 TDs, but 800-900 yards sounds about right). I would expect that Stills and Jennings are going to easily eat up what Hartline and Gibson had and probably improve a bit on that.

I think Cameron is going to be the guy that surprises if he's healthy because he'll do what Clay did and more--both in yards and in TDs.

Somebody is going to disappoint unless Tannehill throws for like 4,500 yards to be quite honest. If that's the case, then yeah, we could see Parker, Landry and Cameron all have real big totals simultaneously which would be awesome.

But at the end of the day, I would never expect Landry to put up over 1,000 yards. At that point you need to have big speed (Victor Cruz) or a ton of targets (Wes Welker). Landry doesn't have the speed and this doesn't look like an offense that is going to feed a single player.

 

i don't really hold the "leadership" mantle in high regard either when it comes to professional sports. I believe pros for the most part don't need inspiration, they motivate themselves but for those that do believe its an important quality this guy is the definition of that. He is as serious as a heart attack when it comes to the game and will spend his career improving on his weaknesses. He has the attitude that Jerry Rice and Walter Payton had when it comes to the offseason. I expect Landry to continue to improve incrementally for the next couple of seasons. Which is why if he succeeded in his offseason goal of improving burst he can be used outside. Not in the Kenny Stills role. He will never be effective just running fly patterns but rather in the davonte parker role where you give him a one or two cut pattern. why he can succeed is if he can get that instant of seperation on an improved cut then when the ball arrives, even if the db has caught up, he has an elite ability to fight for the ball and if you want to get creative have the two interchange. imagine a 5'10" slot DB trying to cover parker out of the slot

 

He could also be a Hines Ward type of guy. Ward had 12k yards in 14 seasons so he averaged just under 1k per season.

That's about where I would put Landry.

 

I agree.

I guess my point, to clarify, is that in terms of "improvement" for a slot WR without elite speed, we're talking 100-300 yards worth of production so all the fanfare is a little over-the-top.

To me, that's good but that's not monumental in the grand scheme of things so it's great if Landry does it but I still see him as a guy who is 1k or 1.1k at his most impressive.

For a slot guy, that's exactly what I want in this offense.

Give me 800 yards or 900 yards I don't really care either way. It's good enough to win if we've got the right pieces outside. I guess that was my original point.

 

Thanks but the only guy I had right pre draft was Jay Ajiyi lol. This was a post draft draft. We'll see how it plays out. I wasnt thinking about Jordan Phillips in the 2nd. My guy was Randy Gregory but since I already drafted Alvin Dupree and liked Phillips alot switched to him. And with McCain he was a better pick than who I was looking at so I went with him. We'll see who does better. Hopefully the guys who get paid to do it

 

I bet Jarvis Landry goes over a 1000 yards..

any takers?

 

juice is a hell of a mike backer..boy is bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzFfDi3l1r4

 

'

I would take that bet and put $50 on it right now but that's a numbers thing, not a knock on Jarvis Landry.


I figured out my problem btw...I like Tannehill yet I continually argue with folks who love Ryan Tannehill. I like Jarvis Landry yet I argue with folks who love Jarvis Landry. I don't like Brian Hartline, or Joe Philbin or Ted Ginn Jr. but I fall into arguments with folks who hate them.

I'm really tired of being the guy who always tries to stand up in the face of extremist views that are radical, lazy, dumb and stupid as 1968 likes to hear me say.

I don't want to have those conversations anymore and I'm moving on. If people want to say Tannehill is the next Aaron Rodgers or Ted Ginn Jr is the devil, I'm not going to argue.

I would take your bet but I don't want to be seen as the guy who "doesn't like" Landry or wants to rub it in everyone's face that he's not a 1k-yd guy when he inevitably goes for 800 because there are so many weapons on the team competing for targets.

And don't get me wrong...I'd LOVE to lose that $50. In fact, if he does I'll even mail you a warm beer.

 

I don't think that the people, like myself, who've been labeled Tannehill lovers, are actually that. I know I got labeled that due to my constant arguing with a handful of people who dislike Tannehill.

 

I think you're missing the role a leader plays in the pros. I agree professional athletes tend to motivate themselves.

But when you're on a team, you have people with different attitudes, different expectations, behavior etc.. To make sure those differences don't lead to internal conflict and instead are synergistic is what a good leader does. That goes for the coach and also for the player.

 

every player and debate is different, we agree mostly on tannehill, my questions with him are can he be good enough to win multiple championships with... jarvis I believe needs to be looked at deeper, to determine the ceiling, so thats what I'm trying to do here..I know that I was was wrong to say that I had a third round grade on him, when I wrote that I always left a caveat that theres something about him that may just blow that kind of grade out of the water..but a grade is a grade..hes worth a lot more than a third.

heres the thing, the difference between good and great is aways worth debating..

 

For what it's worth, I don't think of you as a Tannehill lover.

But there are folks who think that the norm, what should be anticipated, is unabated progress. That's not right and it's not really logical or debatable. The norm is always stagnation. Progress is the surprising thing--particularly to NFL-leading levels.

I can debate a lot of things but I can't debate someone's hopes and dreams for their favorite team so I'm giving up on that for now.

There is so much optimism flowing around because that's the mood this time of year...I don't want to make it my job to try and reign that all in. I just going to let it die out back to normal levels. Some of these moves aren't going to work unless Tannehill or this defense operate within the top-5 throughout the year and reasonable speaking that's probably not going to happen, but hey, it's not my job to point that out.

 

i can see the numbers improving for tannehill, i think thats a good bet considering variables he dealt with in his first three years, very good bet that the defense improves, I think there is completely logical justified optimism.

 

Well, I don't get into the emotions of players too much so I'll admit I'm not the guy to talk to about leadership. My life involves going to work in an environment where you're supposed to come in every day and give your best because complicated decisions have to be made based on your analysis. I guess that's why I sort of see the good in Philbin. He seems like the analytical, detail-oriented type. So for me, motivation is kind of the expectation, not just for myself but for everyone. I'm not inclined to reward someone for doing what I think they are supposed to do. I almost want to say it's kind of a childish topic.

Sometimes you have to remind yourself that these guys aren't kids. They're not 15. They are supposed to understand hard work and appreciate their duties. The competition is supposed to sort the men from the boys and I guess for too long Miami hasn't had the competition in camp.

I was scolded enough in grad school to learn the lesson that I had to be motivated or people wouldn't take me seriously. It blows my mind that there are NFL players that don't take it seriously and their base pay is a lot higher than mine. I guess when I see a Jarvis Landry mentality, I don't think "hero" as much as I just think, "that's what all players should be like, good for him." My attitude isn't that Landry is special as much as it is, "good, at least I can trust that player to do his job and I'm glad to see that type of player get paid."

And at the same time, some guys are more calm and composed like Stephen Curry or Joe Flacco. Curry is in the NBA Finals and he looks like he doesn't care, but that's how he plays his game. If he were to get all emotional he wouldn't be in the Finals to begin with and he knows that. The same thing was true of Flacco in the Super Bowl.

I admire being cool and quiet as much as I do being energetic and loud. In fact, being loud is weird to me. If I played football I would be a boring guy to watch I guess so maybe I should appreciate that a team of quiet, analytical types wouldn't win a lot of games.

Makes me wonder why I even watch football to be honest...but I digress.



But even if let's say we agree on this emotion stuff and invent some word that we both can settle on (inspirational, motivational, energetic, lead-by-example, etc.) I'm interested in proving how Landry will be more than he was last year. That's the question, right?

For me, it's tough to say that. Tannehill already had a high number of attempts last year and he already had a high completion percentage so it's not reasonable to expect either of those numbers to go up that much. You add to that the fact that Landry now has competition on the inside from Cameron and even more competition on the outside with better weapons than last year as well as the fact that Ajayi is now in the mix to get some goal lines carries (remember Landry had 2 of his 5 TDs during that Denver game when the team was close to the goal line).

What needs to happen with Landry isn't an increase in catches, but an increase of yards-per-catch. Wallace did run quite a few crossers last year to intermediate depths so it's reasonable to conclude that Landry could get those now. He's not as fast as Wallace so I would anticipate Tannehill being more accurate throwing to Landry and I trust Landry more in YAC anyway. That could be one area we see Landry boost his numbers a bit.

Point is...it's not going to be as easy as just asking for it. What is there for him to do within this offense that wouldn't be (1) impossible for a guy of his stature or (2) conflict with the roles of the other 4-5 key components of the passing game?

 

Stagnation wasn't the right word for a young QB. Stagnation is probably correct after 5-6 years. At that point, you are who you are. I'd say, linear extrapolation that doesn't violate the NFL's general trends is probably more apt for Tannehill going into 2015. That's like 4,100 yards. That's not really the improvement I'm looking for. That's just being able to find a slightly faster route to work in the mornings. That's not you being better at your job.

Yes, Tannehill's numbers will improve to some degree. Of course they will. I guess it's the sort of non-linear growth that seems unjustified to me and more the product of someone's imagination.

I have no doubt Tannehill will improve to something like 4,100 or 4,200 yards. But with all the new weapons, I don't know if that represents improvement of the QB. That's pretty much just adding a bunch of better weapons and the offense generally being the beneficiary. Now, if we saw him jump to 4,500 or 4,600 I'd really have seen something because you don't get to those without big, explosive plays. That's definitely beyond the level of game-manager. You have to take on some risks to put up that kind of yardage.

Now, if you do it the Matthew Stafford way, through brute force (number of attempts), and lose a bunch of games, eh, it's not as impressive.

..and if you do it with a bunch of INTs, it's not impressive either...but if Tannehill were to throw for 4,500 yards with 30 or more TDs and 15 or fewer INTs, I would be impressed.

He basically did that last year except for the yardage. If he can find a way to boost the yardage significantly without adding more than 2 or 3 INTs, I will be impressed. If the TDs reach 30 that's icing on the cake for me. 27 is ok, 30 is a nice even number that sounds better!

 

The problem is that you're using false/invented benchmarks.

For example, you've just decided that Landry won't be a leader based on his position. There's nothing to back that up, you've just decided it.

That problem however, is not unique to you.

 

A leader is someone who motivates others, based on their performance. Anyone can give directions, that doesn't make you a leader. When your performance inspires others, then you're a leader. You could be a bench player, and still be a leader. A leader doesn't have to be the best player on the team.

 

If anyone but your QB is a leader, you're in trouble. All the truly successful teams, year in year out, it's the QB. Is Jordy Nelson the leader of the Packers? Is Randall Cobb? Antonio Brown or Ben Roethlisberger? We need Tanny to take the bull by the horns and make this team his beeyatch.

You say a leader is someone who motivates others, by their performance. But someone can be a bench player, and still lead. Do you mean off field behavior, or on field performance?

Anyway, if the QB is not the recognized alpha leader, the team might not be consistent contenders year in, year out.

That said, I like Landry, but I have no illusions of him beating out Parker, Stills and Jennings outside. Is he going to be so good he can take away snaps from them? If he can improve from his 4 yards from the LOS passes, then I'll be impressed. If Landry is his best in the slot, why ruin a good thing. It'd be like moving Juwuan James over to the left side.

Oh wait, shoot!

 

Bro, that's a bit harsh. This is the internet. Football ... is just a game. Nobody in here (mostly) has a career depending on this stuff. Let's step back and take a deep breath.

 

Generally true, but there are some exceptions. One of the best leaders I've ever seen is Ray Lewis.

 

Yeah, maybe you have a guy that is second string, but works his *** off the gym, and in practice. His effort inspires other guys to work harder. Maybe he watches film studiously, and gets others to join. He would be a leader.

Your QB does not have to be the only leader.

 

Yes there are definitely exceptions and Ray is one. Perhaps the only one in the past few decades

 

Name a successful team with such an example.

The QB doesn't have to be the only leader, but he needs to be the alpha. Notice how we've only talked about Landry setting the example, Landry being the motivator, Landry being a leader. I want our players to almost be afraid of upsetting Tannehill.

You don't want to upset Brady, Manning, Marino, etc. Either they're ***** (Marino) or they're perfectionists (Manning) and so you want to be at your best. Last year we had two malcontents in Wallace and Hartline. For whatever reason they didn't buy into him as a leader. So that's something you question.

 

Yeah, I'd put a few other non-QB's on a list of very good leaders, though not on Ray's level. Brian Urlacher seems like one and Ed Reed was also another. It's also hard not to point out Andre Johnson as someone others seem to look up to. Well anyway, I agree with your general point, but there are some non-QB's one has to respect as leaders.

 

Why not just be negative towards Dolphins players all our lives because that what we're mostly used to? Plus that's the safer bet right! That's what I want to do!........Not.

Fck off! I'll choose to be optimistic. I've seen Landry perform and infect his fellow teamates with emotion. He shows it on the field even though he has obvious limitations.

 

You've all gone too far...that can happen sometimes.

 

I don't really view Joe Flacco as a leader type, yet he won a Super Bowl.