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Lamar Jackson - Skewed Takes?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Galant, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Some really varied takes on Lamar Jackson. 1st round, 2nd round...worse?

    Bill Polian came out on TV and said he would take Jackson as a WR due to his exceptional talent, but not a QB and he's not a good passer.

    That sparked a lot of discussion and debate and caused Jackson to face a slew of questions, during the Combine presser, about whether he'd be testing as just a QB but also a WR, and he repeatedly had to graciously dismiss them. I've seen that video it just comes across as disrespectful, he answered once, move on...

    Anyway, following on from there it's lead some to take a look at how the football world, and the media in particular, treat, or mistreat, black QB's. Now, that raises a larger racial question but I'd like to keep it football focused, and ask, what are your opinions on Jackson as a QB, what are your reasons/sources for that opinion, and do you think the media coverage could be or is skewed, even sub-consciously, against black QB's? If so, could Jackson be better than most media takes suggest?

    Here's Mel Kiper on Jackson and Allen....contradiction?





    And here are a couple of videos making the case that Polian's analysis in wrong, or at least, inconsistent, and that takes against Lamar are skewed:



    So, how good is Jackson, really....?
     
  2. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Ive been saying it all off-season...


    Lamar's completion percentage is skewed by the lack of talent around him. If it was me, I'd take him in the 1st round. Someone will get a steal.
     
  3. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I'm not entirely sure Old Man Polian knowns who Jackson is. He also made the claim Jackson was "short" lol.
     
  4. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Yea. That is an outrageous claim for sure. I think there is a double standard based on race. There is a double standard based on race in life. Because people, whether they do it on purpose or not, see differences. Its human nature. However, the same double standard we see with black QBs we see with white WRs and DBs. Does it make either right? Absolutely not...

    From my perspective, I wouldn't take Lamar in the first. and I wouldn't take Allen in the first either. Some of the same reasons, some different reasons. We are starting to see more zone read in the NFL. But the windows Lamar had to throw in, will not be there in the NFL. Lacks touch. Intermediate accuracy is an issue. But also, I think hes going to have to learn to not run as much if he wants to stay healthy. Running QBs just never seem to be able to stay healthy. and while his height and weight say good size, his frame is slight. Very RG3 like. and that is a scary comparison, because I think RG3 was far better passer coming out of college.
     
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  5. TheOne

    TheOne Active Member

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    Alot of people had questions about DeShaun Watson's accuracy last season, we all saw how dominant he was.
     
  6. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Those people would be idiots....Watson's accuracy was fantastic in college. His ONLY slight problem in college and I am sure will be in the pros too, is he doesn't have the biggest arm, and he is always trying to make plays. So he will try and fit it into windows sometimes he shouldn't. With that though you also get big plays. Watson was the best QB ive seen come out since Luck. Baffled me the hate he got.
     
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  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I don't think that Jackson has done very much at this point to prove that he's a NFL qb. Neither has Allen . However, Allen has the size and frame that teams drool over, while Jackson is stick thin and looks easily broken.

    Jackson is a great runner, but I don't care about that whatsoever. When he's forced to actually play QB, he has a lot of issues. Those might be able to be overcome in time with good coaching, but right now id say he needs to ride the bench for at least two years.

    If a team is bold and confidant, then I could see taking a shot at him in the third round. But I wouldn't put all of my eggs in that basket.
     
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  8. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Is there any proof in history that a 6'5 QB has more success than a 6'2 QB?
     
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  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lamar has a pretty serious hitch in his delivery, elbow drops with a very wristy delivery, not conducive mechanically to be accurate..

    he's pretty good with the short stuff, the quick slants, digs and crossers but the farther he goes away from the LOS the more inaccurate his delivery is..
     
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  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Sorry man, I do not see any serious hitch in his delivery or any elbow drop.

    The only problem I see with him is he is mostly upper body. He does not get his legs into his throws, which causes passes to sail and hurts his accuracy in longer passes.
     
  11. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I don't think it's a double standard about race or a bias against black quarterbacks. It's the simple fact that there are very few white QBs who are elite athletes. Hence, they live and die at the QB position. There's not a single one of us who believe every white QB is a franchise caliber guy, so let's get that out of the way right now (in case anyone forgot). The only problem though is- the white ones that we dislike are almost always NOT QUALIFIED to play anywhere else. I mean c'mon, if Christian Hackenberg, Paxton Lynch, Mike Glennon, or Christian Ponder possessed Lamar Jackson's elite athletic profile, do you or anyone else think that people wouldn't be recommending a positional change if they weren't sold on them as franchise caliber QBs? If Ponder had Lamar Jackson's athleticism and had switched to WR early in his career, he'd still be in the NFL. Instead he bounced around on 4 different teams and was out of the league by age 28.

    Nobody makes a big deal about it or throws down the race card when we suggest that a LT be moved to G..... or a CB moved to S.... etc. So what's the difference between not having confidence in a college LT playing that same position in the pros, suggesting he has a better future at LG..... and not having confidence in an athletic college QB playing the same position in the pros, suggesting he has a better future at WR?

    People seem to act like we're talking about a slam-dunk QB prospect here, but we're not. I've run across very few people who have total confidence in Lamar becoming a franchise caliber QB. Heck, I run into very few who rank Lamar in with the big 4 of this draft, and it's not a race thing either, seeing as 3 of the past 7 QBs taken #1 overall the past dozen years were black.
     
  12. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    There's a bunch of people who dislike Josh Allen as a franchise QB. If he were dripping with athleticism, don't you guys think his detractors would be suggesting he's better off at a different position? I was a huge anti Paxton Lynch guy. If he owned Lamar's athletic profile, I would've said that I'd rather see him move to TE. After being afforded a few years of hindsight, would that have been such a crazy insinuation to make?

    A lot of people didn't like EJ Manuel, but how many of his detractors suggested he change positions? None that I recall. That's b/c, just like nearly all of the white QB's, Manuel's athleticism wasn't great enough TO suggest a change. We can deduce that people weren't using Manuel's skin color as an excuse to see him change positions, seeing as no one suggested he make a change. That's b/c this isn't about skin color; it's about the athleticism.

    Ask anyone what they love most about Lamar as a QB prospect and the answer you won't be getting, however, is his arm. With that said, there are a lot of talent assessors (armchair included) who prefer their QBs to be great passers first and foremost, period.... so for those individuals, if they don't have confidence in Lamar's arm, then they won't care much about what others feel his athleticism brings to the position. The "Arm box" has to be checked first for them before anything else can be applied to the equation. Now, if the "Arm box" isn't checked but the "elite athleticism" one is, then what's that critic to suggest about Lamar?
     
  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    If you don't like a QB's arm but you love his athleticism, then what's so farfetched about believing his best NFL future lies at a different position?

    It's amusing that people act like Matt Jones hasn't already happened, you know- the super athletic white QB, 3 year starter for Arkansas, 2nd Team SEC, who was drafted in the 1st round by Jacksonville as a WR (despite never playing the position before) because they didn't believe in his arm at the NFL level but drooled over his athleticism. But yeah, let's turn this into a race thing. :unsure: My god, could you imagine the stink that would've transpired if Jones were black? It would've been completely twisted into a racial issue.
     
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  14. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear. 99.9% of the double standard I am talking about is within the public. The joeshmoes on the sideline.

    Strip the athleticism out of of all QBs. There is still a double standard within the public. Even WITH the running ability, people have Josh Allen going well above Lamar Jackson. Thats ridiculous. Where is all the "experts" questioning Allen's ability to read defenses? Why because Allen played in a pro style offense? Who gives a damn! He stunk up the joint. Lamar didn't play in pro style offense, but he at least was head and shoulders more productive than Allen was.

    Now strip the running ability from the QBs all together. Which QB is the better thrower? Neither is very accurate. Neither has very much touch. Is there statistical evidence to show 6'4 QBs are more successful than 6'2 QBs? If not, then why in the hell are we even having this discussion. Personally, I don't think Lamar Jackson will be successful. But I would take him over Allen in the 2nd round and hope he improves and doesn't get hurt.
     
  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    No one ever made a stink about other black QBs talking about switching positions that eventually switched. Because it was absolutely clear as day. Just as its clear as day Matt Jones had no shot at NFL QB. Are you comparing Matt Jones as a QB to Lamar Jackson? Please tell me you are.
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Your not looking close enough, his elbow drops upon release with his very wristy delivery, wristy deliveries are red flags for inaccuracies..your not coming over the top and the follow through with the throwing hand is not gonna finish at the target..
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  17. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Just a gut feeling but i think we will see him drop further than most people predict.

    Darnold
    Rosen
    Allen
    mayfield

    They will get picked in that order

    i have a feeling Falk and/or Rudolph gets picked up beforr lamar.

    Teams are going to pass on Lamar and he will be there in the third round. Book it.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not I, thought the browns were dumb as sh## for not taking him or Mahomes..
     
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  19. Killer Bees

    Killer Bees Bringin' the Ruckus

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    I say we take the risk and take Jackson in the 1st.
     
  20. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know much about draft prospects but I'd be psyched if we got him.
     
  21. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    I tried to tell them. They didn't listen. Passed on a 22 year old MVP quarterback. I'll never get over it. Heads need to roll.
     
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