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Kiper vs. Scout Inc

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Gunner, Sep 22, 2009.

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  1. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    Here are their latest ESPN Big Boards - Discuss :cool:

    Kiper:
    1 Sam Bradford QB
    Analysis: Has underrated arm and great feel for position and is super-accurate.

    2 Eric Berry DB
    Analysis: Ultimate play maker, in the Ed Reed mold.

    3 Carlos Dunlap DE
    Analysis: Physical tools are off the charts. Unlimited upside potential.

    4 Gerald McCoy DT
    Analysis: Disruptive force. Productive NFL career ahead.

    5 Ndamukong Suh DT
    Analysis: Explosive, relentless and consistent.

    6 Taylor Mays DB
    Analysis: LB size and CB speed.

    7 Colt McCoy QB
    Analysis: Intelligent and resourceful. Can beat you with arm or legs.

    8 Russell Okung OT
    Analysis: Athletic, strong and fiery blind-side pass protector.

    9 Dez Bryant WR
    Analysis: Dynamic receiver, punt returner and TD maker.

    10 Trent Williams OT
    Analysis: Quality all-around bookend, moves from RT to LT this season.

    11 Arrelious Benn WR
    Analysis: Silky smooth, with excellent run-after-catch ability.

    12 Jonathan Dwyer RB
    Analysis: Power back, adept at breaking off long runs.

    13 Jahvid Best RB
    Analysis: Versatile, game-breaker supreme.

    14 Jevan Snead QB
    Analysis: Could have pro career similar to that of former Rebel Eli Manning.

    15 Charles Brown OT
    Analysis: All the skills you look for in top flight NFL left tackle.

    16 Terrence Cody DT
    Analysis: Tremendous clogger along the interior.

    17 Sean Weatherspoon LB
    Analysis: Makes plays all over the field.

    18 Greg Hardy DE
    Analysis: Difference-maker harassing the QB when at full strength.

    19 Damian Williams WR
    Analysis: Polished receiver and extremely hard worker.

    20 Brandon Graham DE
    Analysis: Awesome athlete and force off the edge.

    21 Sergio Kindle LB
    Analysis: Production finally matched his talent last season.

    22 Jerry Hughes DE
    Analysis: Prolific pass rusher who could be a 3-4 OLB.

    23 Brandon Spikes LB
    Analysis: Complete MLB, solid in all areas.

    24 C.J. Spiller RB
    Analysis: Multi-talented, super fast, electrifying game-breaker.

    25 Sean Lee LB
    Versatile, instinctive, and tremendously hard-working
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Scouts Inc.

    1. Sam Bradford QB
    2. Russell Okung OT
    3. Gerald McCoy DT
    4. Ndamukong Suh DT
    5. Taylor Mays S
    6. Trent Williams OT
    7. Jevan Snead QB
    8. Arthur Jones DT
    9. Brandon Spikes MLB
    10. Greg Hardy DE
    11. Brandon LaFell WR
    12. Patrick Robinson CB
    13. Colt McCoy QB
    14. George Selvie DE
    15. C.J. Spiller RB
    16. Javier Arenas CB
    17. Brandon Graham DE
    18. Sergio Kindle OLB
    19. Jermaine Cunningham DE
    20. Mardy Gilyard WR
    21. Jermaine Gresham TE
    22. Terrence Cody DT
    23. Brandon Lang OLB
    24. Syd'Quan Thompson CB
    25. Jerry Hughes OLB
    26. Tim Tebow QB
    27. Trevard Lindley CB
    28. Ricky Sapp DE
    29. Dennis Pitta TE
    30. Nate Allen S
    31. Garrett Graham TE
    32. Rod Muckelroy OLB
     
  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Underrated mobility IMO.

    Overrated.

    I've watched him a couple times and I worry about his inability to get off the line quickly. Maybe that'll
    change this year but last year, it was something that stood out to me.
     
  3. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    2nd what you said Alen.

    it's also nice to see someone else (Scoutsinc) is very high on Sapp. LOL.
    I have a bad gut feeling about McCoy right now.
    Best is way too high on Kiper's board IMO. He's a change of pace 3rd down back to me.
    Dunlap has yet to wow me so far.

    Is ScoutsInc only using Seniors for this list?
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  4. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    That's what I was thinking, except Bradford is a JR(RS).
     
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  5. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I wouldn't trust Ricky Sapp as far as I could chuck him.

    And Taylor Mays is Roy Williams part 2.
     
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  6. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Where the F is Eric Berry on Scouts Inc. list?
     
  7. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    With the 26th pick in the 2010 NFL Draft, the Miami Dolphins select, Tim Tebow, Quarterback, University of Florida Gators.

    Tim Tebow, "First of all I would like to thank the good Lord upstairs for providing me with everything I have in life. My football skills are because of the man upstairs who has blessed me all my life........"

    :yes: That's what is gonna happen!!!! We can use a high character, 6'4" 245 pound QB who refuses to lose and who even Chuck Norris is afraid of.
     
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  8. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    If we're taking a QB who is around 6'4" and over 235 lbs, it better be Tim Hiller.
     
  9. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It's a seniors list and he's a junior. Same reason why Morgan Burnett isn't on there.
     
  10. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I find it very interesting that Pete Carroll has so much trust in Taylor Mays as the centerfielder in the Cover 1 when he's not shy about over-pursuing and decision making. I know Mays can run and has solid range but he's shown in the past he's undisciplined at times.
     
  11. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    I haven't gotten a chance to see him play yet this season ... has mechanics improved any? Or is he still Bernie Kosar-ish?

    If we pick a Gator in the 1st round, I'd rather it be a certain inside LB :up:
     
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  12. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Youre probably expecting some oposition from me, but despite being a Clemson fan, i'd have to agree with you.....about Mays. :tongue2: LOL

    Just kidding. Sapp is playing like late 1st round talent but until I see him healthy and consistent for an entire season, I don't look at him till the late 2nd-3rd at the earliest He's a great individual and an awesome teammate, but like the little leprechaun said (Lou Holtz)- I don't have love at first sight when considering a top pick. LOL

    So far through 2 games, he's playing like a top DE. He's athletic, explosive, and fluid enough to develop into a very good Hybrid....if he has the instincts and awareness for it. IMO of course. ;)
     
  13. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    No please no.
     
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  14. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I know Greg Hardy has a bum wheel, but he seems awkward when he runs, almost uncoordinated and clumsy'ish...like his cleats were dipped in wet cement before the game. For his sake, I hope it's just his leg.

    B/C, you know the "13 year old bully" in movies who gets surprised with a punch to the beak.... and then starts bawling, and turns and runs away with his arms and legs flailing around like wet noodles....that's what Hardy reminded me of tonight. LOL. Someone please tell me it's just his injury. ;)
     
  15. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    His mechanics are virtually identical to last year.
     
  16. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    By virtually identical you mean bad.
     
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  17. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Yup. And as much as I like Tebow, I think he would be horrible under center. While he is very mobile, he has trouble feeling the blitz at times.
     
  18. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    It is an injury. He's basically played on one leg because of an ankle sprain. He looked alright last night, I felt. When the game started, it was clear that the injury was hampering him as he looked to struggle running laterally but as the game went on, he got more comfortable and was in the pocket a few times. He sacked Garcia once to end a drive and force a punt. It seems like there's very few things that can prevent him from producing. He played with a stress fracture last year I believe and still racked up 8.5 sacks in 9 games in which he had a limited snap count.

    Also, it's said that Greg Hardy has put on weight this year as he's up to 275. I thought it was noticeable as he looked to have thicker hips.

    Awful.
     
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  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    :sidelol:
    Yeah...I guess you could say that. LOL
    I am amazed at the extent of his accuracy with the floaters he throws. It can't be easy accounting for all the normal issues related to getting the ball to your receiver PLUS having to factor in the trajectory of a duck, too. :D
     
  20. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    :praying: that we don't go QB round one this upcoming draft
     
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  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm curious on everyone elses thoughts.... I don't see us going into next season with 3 QB's (Henne, Pat, and 2010 rookie) who have zero to very little real time experience. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

    If we don't re-sign Penny to back up Henne the starter (being optimistic), then I think we'll sign a vet in FA who can serve as an experienced backup should Henne go down. Our guys are too young/inexperienced, so there has to be a veteran in the mix. So I'd be shocked to see us take a QB earlier than the 4th b/c I doubt we want to carry 4 QB's.... unless we spend a flyer on one in 5-7 and hope that he has a good enough preseason to show some damn good potential.
     
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  22. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    Over Yonder
    I'll take Mays over any of our current safeties. We need someone who plays on instincts, and takes risks to make big plays. All great safeties take risks. I wouldn't throw Mays under the bus because he is willing to do that. With good coaching (which i think we have), he can be great.

    Does this not look good?
    [​IMG]
     
  23. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    GISH, that's a nice graphic but I hope it doesn't come true next April.
     
  24. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Replace Mays with Eric Berry.
     
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  25. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    So Mays doesn't have good coaching at USC now? :dunno: I didn't know Berry is more productive bc he has better coaching. :dunno: :tongue2:

    Wait....if taking more risks=making bigger plays... and Mays takes more risks as you say....so if he's taking more risks then why isn't he making more plays?:headscratch: just givin ya a hard time, Gish. LOL
     
  26. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Me too. Roy Williams part 2.
     
  27. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    I thought Tim Tebow died in that Kentucky game. He got smacked harder then any QB I have seen in a while. With that said, It all depends on whether or not you feel he is just a system QB in a spread offense or not. I don't see why he couldn't also line up in a traditional QB setup. I think the positives are his toughness, not necessarily fast but quick and shifty and hard to tackle (kind of like Big Ben), but he also will have to be able to take a lot of hits like Big Ben is able to. I think he is accurate, but there are other QBs with stronger arms. His mechanics are still the same.
     
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  28. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    Here is Mel's updated board with prior week's rankings. Looks like he is starting to get on board with Pike, Norwood & Gilyard. He is using a new method for changing his top 25 as stated below
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=4519330

    First of all, this week you're going to see that a few big names have dropped out and it's not strictly performance-related. Jevan Snead, Arrelious Benn and Damian Williams all were previously on the Big Board, and wouldn't have dropped off if not for a change in my methodology. Here's the change: If a player is a junior who isn't currently in the top 15, I'm going to leave him off.


    Kiper's New Big Board
    1 Sam Bradford
    QB 6-4 223
    Analysis: Has underrated arm, great feel for position; super-accurate. Last week: No. 1

    2 Eric Berry
    DB 5-11 203
    Analysis: Ultimate playmaker, in the Ed Reed mold. Last week: No. 2

    3 Ndamukong Suh
    DT 6-4 300
    Analysis: Explosive, relentless and consistent. Last week: No. 3

    4 Gerald McCoy
    DT 6-4 297
    Analysis: Disruptive force. Productive NFL career ahead. Last week: No. 4

    5 Carlos Dunlap
    DE 6-6 290
    Analysis: Physical tools are off the charts. Unlimited upside potential. Last week: No. 5


    6 Colt McCoy
    QB 6-2 210
    Analysis: Intelligent and resourceful. Can beat you with arm or legs. Last week: No. 7

    7 Taylor Mays
    DB 6-3 230
    Analysis: LB size and CB speed. Last week: No. 6

    8 Dez Bryant
    WR 6-2 220
    Analysis: Dynamic receiver, punt returner and TD maker. Last week: No. 9

    9 Russell Okung
    OT 6-5 300
    Analysis: Athletic, strong and fiery blind-side pass protector. Last week: No. 8
    10 Jahvid Best
    RB 5-10 195
    Analysis: Versatile, game-breaker supreme. Last week: No. 10

    10 Terrence Cody
    DT 6-5 365
    Analysis: Tremendous clogger along the interior. Last week: No. 13

    12 Sean Weatherspoon
    LB 6-2 245
    Analysis: Makes plays all over the field. Last week: No. 14

    13 Greg Hardy
    DE 6-5 275
    Analysis: Difference-maker harassing the QB when at full strength. Last week: No. 15

    14 C.J. Spiller
    RB 5-11 195
    Analysis: Multitalented, super-fast, electrifying game-breaker. Last week: No. 16

    15 Sergio Kindle
    LB 6-4 255
    Analysis: Production finally matched his talent last season. Last week: No. 17

    16 Brandon Graham
    DE 6-2 270
    Analysis: Awesome athlete and force off the edge. Last week: No. 19

    17 Jermaine Gresham
    TE 6-6 258
    Analysis: The best pass-catching tight end in college football. Last week: 20

    18 Trent Williams
    OT 6-5 318
    Analysis: Quality all-around bookend, moves from RT to LT this season. Last week: No. 21

    19 Jerry Hughes
    DE 6-3 257
    Analysis: Prolific pass-rusher who could be a 3-4 OLB. Last week: No. 23

    20 Charles Brown
    OT 6-5 285
    Analysis: All the skills you look for in a topflight NFL left tackle. Last week: No. 22

    21 Brandon Spikes
    LB 6-3 243
    Analysis: Complete MLB, solid in all areas. Last week: No. 24

    22 Sean Lee
    LB 6-2 238
    Analysis: Versatile, instinctive and tremendously hardworking. Last week: No. 25

    23 Tony Pike
    QB 6-6 225
    Analysis: Height, mechanics, arm strength and accuracy are all impressive. Last week:
    NR

    24 Eric Norwood
    LB 6-1 252
    Analysis: Productive, versatile, great pass-rusher, ideal 3-4 OLB in the NFL. Last week:
    NR

    25 Mardy Gilyard
    WR 6-1 180
    Analysis: Explosive, consistent, sure-handed, with return skills as bonus. Last week: NR
     
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  29. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Sean Weatherspoon. Now there's a baller. And good to see Tony Pike getting some love.
     
  30. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    He's a baller but I worry about him. He doesn't appear to be carrying his new weight all too well IMO.
     
  31. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I agree. He doesn't look as fluid as a year ago.
     
  32. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    Scout's Inc Updated List:

    Player Position School Height Weight Grade
    1. Carlos Dunlap* DE Florida 6-5¾ 293 96
    2. Sam Bradford* QB Oklahoma 6-4 214 96
    3. Gerald McCoy* DT Oklahoma 6-3½ 296 96
    4. Eric Berry* S Tennessee 5-11¼ 204 96
    5. Ndamukong Suh DT Nebraska 6-3⅞ 295 95
    6. Jake Locker* QB Washington 6-2¼ 222 95
    7. Russell Okung OT Oklahoma State 6-8 299 95
    8. Trent Williams OT Oklahoma 6-5 306 94
    9. Taylor Mays S USC 6-3 236 94
    10. Navorro Bowman* OLB Penn State 6-1½ 231 94
    11. Dez Bryant* WR Oklahoma State 6-2 217 94
    12. Joe Haden* CB Florida 5-11⅜ 191 94
    13. Greg Hardy DE Mississippi 6-4 261 94
    14. Brandon LaFell WR LSU 6-2⅜ 207 93
    15. Jevan Snead* QB Mississippi 6-2½ 217 93
    16. Jahvid Best* RB California 5-9¾ 198 93
    17. Rolando McClain* ILB Alabama 6-3½ 245 93
    18. Colt McCoy QB Texas 6-3 211 92
    19. Arrelious Benn* WR Illinois 6-1⅝ 221 92
    20. Sergio Kindle OLB Texas 6-4 236 92
    21. Arthur Jones DT Syracuse 6-3 302 92
    22. Brandon Spikes ILB Florida 6-3 252 92
    23. C.J. Spiller RB Clemson 5-10¾ 196 92
    24. Javier Arenas CB Alabama 5-8½ 192 91
    25. Jimmy Clausen* QB Notre Dame 6-2¾ 217 91
    26. Ricky Sapp DE Clemson 6-4 245 91
    27. Jared Odrick DT Penn State 6-4 306 91
    28. Patrick Robinson CB Florida State 5-11⅛ 192 90
    29. Jonathan Dwyer* RB Georgia Tech 5-11⅛ 234 90
    30. Jermaine Gresham TE Oklahoma 6-6 262 90
    31. Jerry Hughes OLB TCU 6-1¾ 252 90
    32. Brandon Graham DE Michigan 6-0¾ 274 90
     
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  33. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    Kiper's latest update - kind of interesting that he would throw a new QB onto the big board and put him that high while Pike was added last week and is still at the bottom of the list

    Big Board
    1 Sam Bradford
    QB 6-4 223
    Analysis: Has underrated arm, great feel for position; super accurate. Last week: No. 1

    2 Eric Berry
    DB5-11203
    Analysis: Ultimate play maker, in the Ed Reed mold. Last week: No. 2

    3 Ndamukong Suh
    DT 6-4 300
    Analysis: Explosive, relentless and consistent. Last week: No. 3

    4 Jake Locker
    QB 6-3 226
    Analysis: Developing talent whose physical tools are unmatched. Last week: NR

    5 Gerald McCoy
    DT 6-4 297
    Analysis: Disruptive force. Productive NFL career ahead. Last week: No. 4

    6 Carlos Dunlap
    DE 6-6 290
    Analysis: Physical tools are off the charts. Unlimited upside potential. Last week: No. 5

    7 Taylor Mays
    DB 6-3 230
    Analysis: LB size and CB speed. Last week: No. 7

    8 Dez Bryant
    WR 6-2 220
    Analysis: Dynamic receiver, punt returner and TD maker. Last week: No. 8

    9 Colt McCoy
    QB 6-2 210
    Analysis: Intelligent and resourceful. Can beat you with arm or legs. Last week: No. 6

    10 Russell Okung
    OT 6-5 300
    Analysis: Athletic, strong and fiery blind-side pass protector. Last week: No. 9

    11 Jimmy Clausen
    QB 6-3 223
    Analysis: Polished QB, at his best when game is on the line. Last week: NR

    12 Terrence Cody
    DT 6-5 365
    Analysis: Tremendous clogger along the interior. Last week: No. 11

    13 Sean Weatherspoon
    LB 6-2 245
    Analysis: Makes plays all over the field. Last week: No. 12

    14 Greg Hardy
    DE 6-5 275
    Analysis: Difference-maker harassing the QB when at full strength. Last week: No. 13

    15 Jahvid Best
    RB 5-10 195
    Analysis: Versatile, game-breaker supreme. Last week: No. 10

    16 C.J. Spiller
    RB 5-11 195
    Analysis: Multitalented, super fast, electrifying game-breaker. Last week: No. 14

    17 Jermaine Gresham
    TE 6-6 258
    Analysis: The best pass-catching tight end in college football. Last week: 17

    18 Sergio Kindle
    LB 6-4 255
    Analysis: Production finally matched his talent last season. Last week: No. 15

    19 Jerry Hughes
    DE 6-3 257
    Analysis: Prolific pass-rusher who could be a 3-4 OLB. Last week: No. 19

    20 Brandon Spikes
    LB 6-3 243
    Analysis: Complete MLB, solid in all areas. Last week: No. 21

    21 Tony Pike
    QB 6-6 225
    Analysis: Height, mechanics, arm strength and accuracy are all impressive. Last week:
    23

    22 Eric Norwood
    LB 6-1 252
    Analysis: Productive, versatile pass-rusher, ideal 3-4 OLB in the NFL. Last week: 24

    23 Trent Williams
    OT 6-5 318
    Analysis: Quality bookend, moved from RT to LT this season. Last week: No. 18

    24 Charles Brown
    OT 6-5 285
    Analysis: All the skills you look for in a topflight NFL left tackle. Last week: No. 20

    25 Brandon Graham
    DE 6-2 270
    Analysis: Awesome athlete and force off the edge. Last week: No. 16
     
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  34. Motion

    Motion New Member

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    Good to see Joe Haden getting some love.
     
  35. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I would love our 1st pick to be Brandon Spikes (MLB) from UF.
     
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  36. Motion

    Motion New Member

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    We could definitely use him. :up:
     
  37. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Yep, assuming Dez Bryant is still there and assuming Henne is the guy.
     
  38. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Any thoughts on a Dez Bryant or Gresham first round selection? Is Gresham the truth as advertised or is he fools gold as well?
     
  39. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Both are worthy of a first rounder, IMO. I just think Bryant's more worthy. He's an elite prospect. Gresham can stretch the field and work the middle as well as anyone but his blocking is a bit pedestrian. He's not the blocker that Pettigrew was last year - though very few are - and he's more of an interference blocker. Gresham also has concentration issues IMO. He drops balls he shouldn't. I would say Gresham's worthy of a late teens to mid twenties pick if you're an offense that relies on a pass catching tight end.
     
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  40. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    And the shuffling continues ...

    Scout's Inc:

    1. Carlos Dunlap* DE Florida 96
    2. Gerald McCoy* DT Oklahoma 96
    3. Eric Berry* S Tennessee 96
    4. Sam Bradford* QB Oklahoma 95
    5. Ndamukong Suh DT Nebraska 95
    6. Jake Locker* QB Washington 94
    7. Russell Okung OT Okla. State 94
    8. Taylor Mays S USC 94
    9. Trent Williams OT Oklahoma 6-5
    10. Dez Bryant* WR Okla. State 93
    11. Rolando McClain* ILB Alabama 93
    12. Joe Haden* CB Florida 93
    13. Greg Hardy DE Mississippi 92
    14. Marvin Austin* DT N. Carolina 92
    15. Jahvid Best* RB California 92
    16. Navorro Bowman* OLB Penn State 92
    17. Arrelious Benn* WR Illinois 92
    18. C.J. Spiller RB Clemson 91
    19. Colt McCoy QB Texas 91
    20. Brandon LaFell WR LSU 91
    21. Derrick Morgan* DE Georgia Tech 91
    22. Sergio Kindle OLB Texas 91
    23. Arthur Jones DT Syracuse 90
    24. Brandon Spikes ILB Florida 90
    25. Jimmy Clausen* QB Notre Dame 90
    26. Jermaine Gresham TE Oklahoma 90
    27. Patrick Robinson CB Florida State 90
    28. Jonathan Dwyer* RB Georgia Tech 90
    29. Ricky Sapp DE Clemson 90
    30. Jevan Snead* QB Mississippi 89
    31. Javier Arenas CB Alabama 89
    32. Jared Odrick DT Penn State 89
     

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