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Keenan Allen 40 times - 4.71 & 4.75

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by UCF FINatic, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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  2. peakz

    peakz New Member

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    DraftPanthers ‏@DraftPanthers54m
    I timed Allen 1st 40 - 4.7, 1.56 split / 2nd 40 - 4.45, 1.54 split --- either way 10 split good and long speed way better on 2nd attempt

    Massive variation in his 40 times at the moment.
     
  3. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Yea, 4.7 and 4.5 is a big difference. 4.75 and 4.71, not so much.

    I'd think they would have him run a 3rd time if there was that big a discrepancy.
     
  4. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    I have a hard time believing he was timed at 4.7 and 4.45. I am much more inclined to trust Mayock's times of 4.71 and 4.75.

    Anyways reports are saying he is running routes and looks okay (although he has dropped a couple balls).
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Ouch.
     
  6. surferosa

    surferosa Balance and Vision

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    Geronimo!
     
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  7. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hasn't he always been a short-area quickness guy? Not saying his 40 isn't going to hurt him, but I always figured him more of a route technician than a "outrun you" player. But he is shaping up to be more and more of just a possession receiver.
     
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  8. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    ouch, not a big surprise to me somehow, he just doesn´t look that fast on tape either
     
  9. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Well, atleast it's great news for any team that really wants the kid.
     
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  10. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Did he Poop his pants halfway through?
     
  11. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He looks like Anquan Boldin and seems he runs like him as well. Don't forget though.......don't sleep on Anquan Boldin.
     
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  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Yeah, I think I'd trust Mayock over some anonymous human who calls himself DraftPanthers, who I'd put on a level with NFLDraftBytes. You want some credibility use a human name. JMO.
     
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  13. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    *shrugs* I never wanted to draft him in the first place.
     
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  14. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, one team is certainly going to draft a steal at WR this year.
     
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  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The 40 time is mostly being blamed on the injury he's recovering from. His trainers say he's got 75-80 percent of his explosiveness back and he says 85 percent, etc. It was a PCL tear. Not sure I totally buy it, but then I'm not sure I totally buy that he's a 4.7 guy.

    I think he's a 4.60 kind of guy.
     
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  16. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Either way he is not explosive, fast, nor quick.

    I'm glad. Protects us from possible stupidity at 12. Practically guarantees him at 54 though.

    Not a big K.A. fan, personally. He's fine.. but we have fine already.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Mark Harrison?
     
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  18. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    I don't think I can justify a mid 1st rounder on Allen. He either falls towards the end of round 1 or gets taken in round 2.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Personally I wouldn't even think about him until round 2 and likely wouldn't find him compelling enough to take until round 3.
     
  20. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I think if he's there at pick 2a he is ours.

    His height-weight is just too deep inside Ireland and the 'Packers-template' wheelhouse, plus he is fairly ready to contribute. PLus, Ireland loves justifying things with 'up arrows' and this kid was limited by his QB, meaning there is some up arrow potential in the Pro's.

    Wish I liked him.
     
  21. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    x2 here.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Ireland is a height-weight-speed guy. He's not going to naturally like Keenan Allen.
     
  23. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    height and weight boxes tick. Speed, maybe not... but Ireland will be able to look at that being why Allen didn't go in the 1st. That's why the discount.

    The car is spacious, handles well... just has a lower top-end speed.

    I mean, I'd love to think Jeff has learned from Patrick Turner, Ernest Wilford and Legadu Naanee... but I am not counting on it. He likes size. Now, Philbin won't be asking him for giants over 6'4", so we have to look at what a Jeff Ireland - Joe Philbin Frankenstein's hybrid would look like to please both men.

    I end up with a guy 6'2" around 205, with 'meh' speed (like 4.55-4.65). Allen is little slow for that, but I think it's between him and Robert Woods for that WR pick in round two that will disappoint me.
     
  24. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Mayock says he doesn't care about Allen's times:

    [video]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000158580/article/keenan-allen-clocks-471-in-40-mayock-doesnt-care[/video]
     
  25. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    If they target K.A. the thought process, imo, is that he's our James Jones.
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Legedu Naanee was every bit the height-weight-speed guy. He hit the triangle numbers well. Patrick Turner had some unique physical characteristics. Plus at a full 6'5" and 220+ lbs, running even in the high 4.5's as Turner did is actually good, and his 4.20 shuttle was unique for those dimensions, and part of what Ireland considered to be physically unique about the guy (short legs, short strider with a long body). Hartline's shuttle/cone numbers at 6'2" were very good and a 4.49 for a 6'2" player isn't bad either.

    Ernest Wilford, I'll grant you. But if I am likely to blame ANY of the moves that happened in 2008 to 2010 primarily on Parcells and not Ireland, it would be the free agent moves in that very first free agency. I think Ireland willingly took a back seat, but I think he started to re-assert more authority over the situation come draft time.
     
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  27. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I don't really care if the speed is 'good for his size' if a WR doesn;t actually separate from defenders or threaten safeties or get deep for chunk plays. We need results in the form of chunk yards, TDs and such. Heck, if a 321lb Dlineman was fast for his size, I wouldn't try to make him a WR and take the top off a defense with him. So the 'she's smart... for a girl' thing is not really compelling, to me.

    Now, if we didn't have a Brian Hartline to do all the things he can do, then maybe I'd be more on board with wanting a versatile, but not that fast, receiver. As it stands, Hartline is faster than the Keenan Allen's of the world, and even Hartline isn't explosive enough... so why would we go get another guy who is even slower.

    No more possession receivers, thanks.

    The thing is, Ireland is a recovering Parcellian. He must unlearn that blocking ability and size is as important in a receiver as quickness and acceleration.

    The best way Jeff could show me he has turned over a new leaf is to take a guy like Tavon, or even Stdeman (who is slow, granted.. but would be an example of Jeff exiting the bermuda-Parcells-triangle because Stedman does NOT tick the hieght and weight boxes but DOES get results) over 'meh' guys with high floors like Keenan Allena dn Robert Woods simply because they fit in a little height-weight-speed stencil triangle he and Parcells made together out of cardboard and white glue.
     
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  28. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Right there with you :up:

    Not fast enough to outrun a DB, not physical enough to break many tackle equals doomed in the NFL.
     
  29. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Two words: Markus Wheaton

    I have a really strong feeling we are targeting him at #42.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Size-speed ratio is fundamentally important. Height is a substitute for speed when it comes to threatening a defense vertically. The physics of the game make it that way. You think teams keep a safety over top of Brandon Marshall at all times because he's got 4.52 speed? Hell no. It's because he's half an inch shy of 6'5" and he's well-muscled on top of it. Randy Moss wasn't the best deep threat the NFL has likely ever seen just because he had 4.3 speed.

    By the way, take note of the fact that on paper Patrick Turner was nearly an inch taller than Brandon Marshall coming out, with nearly the same weight, only 0.07 seconds slower but with a 0.03 second faster 10 yard split, a shuttle about 0.11 seconds faster than Marshall, with a vertical only about 2.5 inches lower. So when I say that actually if you look at Turner's workout numbers they're pretty good on paper, that should give you some perspective on that. On paper, they WERE good.

    Getting back to Keenan Allen, my original point is that Jeff Ireland was never likely to be in love with Keenan in the first place. That's because Jeff Ireland IS a size-weight-speed guy no matter how anyone tries to spin it. As far as size-weight-speed goes, Allen has decent height at 6'2" but he's only 206 lbs so he's not a ripped or stout guy, and he's got 4.55 to 4.6 speed. That's not overly impressive. It's Patrick Turner minus 3 inches and 17 lbs.

    It was ALWAYS going to have to be Joe Philbin's job to convince Jeff Ireland on Keenan Allen, if they were going to take him. Same is true of DeAndre Hopkins.
     
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  31. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    :dunno:So does he have a tendency to emphasize these traits more than most Evaluators ? I dont think so. I actually believe its quite the contrary, and your the one spinning something.

    What kind of thought process is that ?
    :lol:

    If you want to mimic the GB offense player by player .......See: Gibson for the James Jones role.

    If we draft him he's our Keenan Allen.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    -1 here
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm perfectly comfortable with you believing that.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think Mike Mayock is wrong on the Anquan Boldin comparison. Comparing him to Anquan Boldin has more to do with Keenan Allen's limitations than his strengths. He's been used inside-out at Cal with a lot of short and RAC-oriented routes, and that's been Boldin's role at the NFL level, so that comparison is natural. But outside of that you're mostly just comparing him to Boldin because of lack of speed.

    He trips too damn much and otherwise gives himself up after the catch to say he's got Boldin's balance or exciting overall package of run after catch abilities. To me he definitely does not have Boldin's pure strength which was always one of the more incredible aspects of his game. Keenan Allen is fearless and physical, but that doesn't mean he's physically strong. Anquan Boldin had about 10 lbs on Allen coming into the NFL, even though he was an inch and a half shorter than Allen. Much stockier frame, much more physical strength. Hell, nowadays I bet Boldin has at least 15 lbs more meat on his frame than Allen, even though he's an inch and a half shorter.

    Who you compare Keenan Allen to is probably going to depend on whether you like Keenan Allen or not. But I think if you like him, then Stevie Johnson is about as good a comparison as you're going to find. Same usage, same dimensions, same speed. If you're a believer in Allen's growth and his run after catch then you see the kind of excitement in him that you see from Stevie Johnson. Johnson is another guy who is more fearless than he is necessarily strong from a pure physical strength standpoint.

    You could compare him to James Jones dimensionally and from a speed standpoint, but I don't think the physicality/quickness mix is quite right. I think Allen is a little more about quickness in his run after catch and less about breaking tackles and being physical. Also Allen has been more of an inside-out guy where Jones is more of an outside-only guy.

    If you DON'T like Keenan Allen, and you're buying the jack of all trades/master of none argument, to you he's the next Mohamed Massaquoi. Again ths dimensions and speed fit. To me the run after catch abilities are closer (right now) to Massaquoi than they are to Stevie Johnson or James Jones. That is to say, the skills and the polish are there, but the physical strength, explosiveness and consistency of execution are not.
     
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  35. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I'd take him at the end of round one if he's healthy.
     
  36. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Chris, I want to make sure I'm reading this right or not: You're comparing Allen to Patrick Turner?
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Oh god no. Paper-only.
     
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  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    FWIW, Allen's doctor said his knee is 100% but the surrounding muscles are understandably still at 75%. I'll happily take Allen if he slips to our 2a pick.
     
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  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think I explained who I would compare Keenan Allen to in another post.

    If he's successful at the next level, to me it's going to look a lot like Stevie Johnson. There's a quickness that is similar to Stevie, certainly a fearlessness, the run after catch ability, the ability to pull in the football, etc. I think that's a good comparison that I'm comfortable with IF Keenan progresses and becomes a successful pro.

    But on the other hand, if he doesn't succeed, then I think it's going to look a lot like Mohamed Massaquoi. That means the bare skills are there for run after catch, but the consistency of execution, the burst and the strength are not necessarily there. You'll see big plays every now and then, including big catches (Massaquoi perfectly capable of nice looking catches), but you'll be left wondering why he doesn't do it more often.
     
  40. mroz

    mroz Tua tua tua choo choo tua tua tua choo choo Club Member

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    Por Que?
     

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