Karlos Dansby, Reggie Bush talk Vontae Davis trade

Really? You don't think he seemed extremely cold, uncomfortable and unwilling to even make eye contact in those meetings with Derek Dennis, CJ, MMoore (re: Tannehill starting), etc?

 

I'm not convinced he is losing the locker room.
I think he's lost Dansby, but that seems to have happened when Chad was cut.

 

I expect that neither Dansby nor Bush will be around next season. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see one or both of them traded.
Philbin and Ireland are disassembling this team in hopes of assembling something better, but I have my doubts about Ireland's ability to do that. Philbin...I don't know yet. I have been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the more I see of him, the more I get a Cam Cameron vibe from him. I hope I'm wrong and he's really a Tony Dungy instead.

 

Only one way to deal with this.

Trade Bush for a 3rd rounder. Dansby for a 4 and a 6.

Then trade Long for a 2nd.

Smith for a 3rd.

Pouncey for a 2nd.

Cam Wake for a 1st.

Burnett for a 5th

Solai for a 4th

Starks for a 4th

Bess for a 4th and a 6th

Hartline for a 6th

Marshall for a bag of used condoms.


Then hire a new GM to use the picks.

 

Reggie Bush hasn't been going on radio talk shows questioning personnel moves.

 

Could it also be that the players have no ****ing clue what direction the staff are going in, what they're trying to accomplish with this roster?

 

It's clear that this team doesn't want diva players or people who are going to be cancerous or have cancerous tendencies. It started with Brandon Marshall, and has followed with Chad Johnson. Vontae Davis despite his god given talent has been a hot head at times, and has underachieved at his position. He's also been volatile at times and has displayed a lazy work ethic. Joe Philbin is blue collar no nonsense type of coach. He's trying to create a new identity with this team in Miami. To me it looks like he's trying to bring that hard working, family type atmosphere thats in Green Bay to south beach. Of course we are talking about two completely different worlds when discussing Green Bay Wisconsin and Miami Florida but that is what he's trying to do.
It's not as bad as some of you are making this out to be. Karlos Dansby for one needs to just STFU and work. Secondly I think we are going to see certain players emerge and be more improved under Philbin. This is a team first and that is what Philbin is instilling. He reminds me quite a bit of Don Shula and a little bit of Bill Belicheck. I don't see Philbin failing as a coach in the NFL but he's going to have his hands full keeping egos in check in Miami. In my opinion he's gotten rid of the divas, the egos, the head cases, the selfish bastard players that only play for themselves when they want to. Bravo...Standing ovation for Philbin having to balls to do such a thing. We may not make the playoffs this year but weeding through some of these bad apples is exactly what needs to happen if we are ever going to move forward and become a dynasty. Dansby is next if he doesn't shut his mouth. We need Dansby to be our Teddy Bruschi not an opinionated *** who is trying to have a ***** waving contest with our head coach. Philbin is old school and thats the way ish is gonna be run. Once he has a roster that buys into what he wants done we are going to win.

 

Even more telling that he was preemptively told to not talk about something then, no?

 

How could the players have no clue? Anyone who doesn't understand why Johnson or Davis aren't with the team anymore is living in a different world. The motivation behind the moves is very clear.

 

Players generally dont like Ireland going back to two offseasons ago.

They know he sucks, only people who dont are Stephen Ross and a couple people round here.

 

Stop, you're changing things up.

You said players were complaining. Dansby is the only one. That is what we said. The whole team was told to keep it in house. Actually, the whole team was told to talk to the coaches.

So apparently your problems with this situation stem from Dansby being unhappy. Do you think Dansby should be in charge?

 

Not really.
Could just means the coaching staff view Bush as a team leader and they want to make sure they are on the same page.
Was Bush singled out? Or was it a team thing.

 

I didn't experience him as cold or uncomfortable in any of those meetings, and I saw a lack of eye contact only with Chad Johnson, which I thought was intentional and a way of showing him he didn't have a roster spot locked up by purposefully being detached and demonstrating the absence of a "we're pals" sentiment, if you will.

In essence his lack of eye contact, IMO, was a way of his showing Chad Johnson how short his leash truly was, and as we found it, it was indeed.

 

in all fairness no one likes say when you or someone you know is laid off. I can't say being traded isn't about as big of an impact.

 

Your (losing) team?

It's interesting that this is the argument, given what we just went through with Tony Sparano. I think some revisionist history either is about to take place, or already has.

 

I think there is a good chance that Dansby isn't intelligent enough to pick up on what Philbin's trying to do with the roster. I don't suspect that's true for the majority of the other players, however.

 

Well that of course is going to be based on a host of other variables.

I don't think Tony Sparano was intelligent enough to hold up his end of the bargain on creating a winning team, i.e., putting his players in position to win.

 

hmmmmmmmmm how did you assess that?

 

Exactly.

Trade Dansby for what? Stating the obvious? We just got rid of Vontae and replaced him with Nolan friggin Carroll. Who's stepping in at 4th CB for Carroll? I dunno who the ****. Does anyone on the team feel better about the secondary today than they did last week? Anyone with eyes can see we we won't be scoring many points this season so our only chance is defense and ST. So why trade one of our best defenders? It's common sense.

I understand why the trade happened, certainly the players do as well. But that 2nd round pick isn't doing **** for the team this year and the players aren't thinking about 2013 they are thinking about Sept 9 at Houston. IMO Dansby was pissed about cutting Chad because our other receivers friggin SUCK. CJ wasn't good either but he was at least a serviceable starter. Dansby said the obvious but I guess he should've spat the company line b/c fans cant handle the truth and the media will be quick to pounce on the "dissension in the locker room" narrative.

That's why teams don't want players talking in the papers.

 

I don't. I speculate about it.

 

The revisionist history happened when Matt Moore won 6 games.

 

if it happened to bush wake would automatically win dolphin survivor. lmao. i am with u though. i would understand dansby because he just cant keep comments to himself and he isnt that good in pass protection. if it happened to bush i would be filled with rage!

 

I'm not sure anyone wants Dansby to be traded, I think people fear he will be traded because he's is not conforming to what Joe Philbin wants as a football player.
Whether that's true or not, I think the is the preception that is out there since the CJ cutting and the Davis trade.

 

Of course it is. Like I've said on here before: when a trade is made, you want to see how it makes your team better. This trade doesn't make the Dolphins better at all right now. So it's difficult for other guys on the roster to get on board with a trade like that. You're basically telling the team "This year doesn't matter"

 

So Dansby was the anonymous player who went to the media as well, I suppose?

I think it's a little naive to assume because you only heard one player complain, that only one player feels that way.

 

Of course we're rebuilding, we're always rebuilding.

 

It seems like we're all talking in circles.

Half the board thinks Philbin needs to win before he can earn the respect to trade off guys like this.

The other half thinks he needs to trade off guys like this before he can win.

Shouldn't that also go for the players? Have Bush or Dansby (especially) earned this reputation that they can openly whine about guys like CJ and VD being let go? VD showed up to practice drunk last year and then out of shape to camp this year. Shouldn't the 'leaders' of this team have seen that and worked with him to be part of the team?

I think Bush and Dansby are very replaceable - both as players and as leaders. Long said himself the team has done a bad job of holding guys accountable - can we point to anything that the 'leaders' have done to change this?

(This may apply more to Dansby than Bush but I wasn't able to go back and read Bush's exact quotes. I actually thought his approaching Philbin and their meeting was a great example of being a leader - just wondering if that has extended to him actually working with guys in the lockerroom).

 

Well for example when Parcells, Ireland and Sparano took over the 2007 team it was understood that this was a team in a shambles and the coaching staff didn't try to underplay that at all. They emphasized that they're blowing it all up, building from the bottom-up, it's a whole new ball game. It was cohesive. If something happened that you didn't agree with, trading away Jason Taylor and cutting Zach Thomas as two great examples, well what do you expect this is a Bill Parcells blowup-and-rebuild. You wouldn't and didn't hear any kind of griping about it...not even from Joey Porter.

There's a little bit of mixed signaling with this regime. Instead of emphasizing how ****ty the 2011 Dolphins were and how they need to totally revamp things, they seemed to emphasize the 6-3 finish and how close the team could be, how good the defense was, etc. That was top down, Steve Ross, Jeff Ireland, etc. But the actions taken look like that of a regime that is dismantling the core talent and rebuilding. Out with Yeremiah Bell (in really ****ty fashion, by the way), out with Will Allen, out with Kendall Langford, out with Brandon Marshall, now out with Vontae Davis.

Put yourself in the players' shoes. They feel like, as they've said in interviews, the reason they got things turned around last year was because the players took ownership of themselves and policed themselves, got things turned around. You feel like you have a great locker room. And your coaching staff keeps talking about what a great locker room you have. And then they make moves that specifically scoop out talent for the purpose of revamping the attitude in the locker room. Wouldn't you feel a bit condescended toward?

 

This. News flash: players don't like it when teammates are traded. It means they're losing a friend and is a reminder they could be next.

So what ... we never trade players, because it might make their teammates unhappy? Of course not.

 

I half-agree with you. Yes, they HAVE earned the right to openly whine, and yes, they're both replaceable.

 

EXACTLY!!!
All this talk about developing culture being more important than winning is poppycock. You put together a winning team and the culture follows.

 

What would Scotty Bowman do ?

 

If I were still on the roster, I would assume I was not part of the problem.

 

The team traded our best performing cornerback over the last 3 seasons for a 2nd. It sounds more comforting that Jeffy is doing the right thing though, if we kick Davis now that he's gone.

 

Don't tell Jeff Ireland that.

 

Well now put yourself in Joe Philbin's shoes.

He watched a team whose coach had the shortest leash imaginable lose seven games in a row and take half a season to get itself in gear and take ownership of the situation and make a half-assed run at saving the coach's job (if that was their intent).

Do you think he's going to start his first year as a head coach banking on that group?

Now your point about mixed signals is well-taken, but these guys need to focus back on their own play and the rest will take care of itself.

 

No, not really. Deep down every player understand the difference between right & wrong and what basic player characteristics are essential to building a championship. For example, they know that, when choosing between lazy & prepared, that "prepared" will lead to more wins. The problem is they don't always act on what they know.

Ditto for professionalism, accountability, responsibility, dedication, selfless play..... all of which aren't new concepts. The faith is quickly being established b/c players can now trust that their coach will hold them to a higher standard, that if he pushes them and demands more from them that it won't go for nothing b/c he'll keep demanding from them and accept nothing less than their best. Now there's no reason for any player to fear that sacrificing himself for the team and giving his very best would be a lost cause and wasted effort. Now everyone has a reason to sacrifice and give 100% b/c it's now demanded of everyone, and it will keep being demanded.

 

I would agree if not for the fact that the two major complaints are about CJ (who wasn't here and knew he was on thin ice) and Vontae (who was here and even with this great locker room policing themselves, still showed up to camp out of shape*).

If it were just Marshall I would get it - but the two guys dealt came in and screwed up. CJ was on a short leash and VD had shown up to practice drunk last year - so I'm guessing he was as well. These guys weren't let go just for opening their mouths - those are pretty huge mistakes. The players should WANT guys to be held accountable for those mistakes. Wouldn't a good locker room want guys that came to play and didn't have all of these issues?

* I understand that could have just been fancy editing by Hard Knocks