1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Just-to-Talk VI

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Jt0323, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,362
    5,539
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    I'm a Marjory Stoneman Douglas alumni, class of '96. My wife's soccer coach still coaches there, my good friend is the DC for the football team, we know teachers, officers, and first respondents that were all involved whom are our friends and former classmates. Pulling hard for coach Aaron Feis to make it thru his heroic efforts to save his kids. **** today.
     
    Fin D, Ohio Fanatic, Paul 13 and 4 others like this.
  2. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Damn... I’m sorry bro. So horrible...
     
    Carmen Cygni and ToddPhin like this.
  3. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

    38,714
    19,908
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    So at the distance these shooters are operating from, wouldn't a 12 gauge 00Buck inflict significantly more damage and more damage per entry wound than an AK whose bullet doesn't yet begin tumbling upon impact at that range?
     
    danmarino likes this.
  4. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    For home defense, ie close range, nothing beats a shotgun. That’s my weapon of choice for defending my home and I was trained with one to clear buildings.
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  5. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Also, the “tumble” of the 5.56/.223 is a myth. (I’m assuming you meant AR and not AK)
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  6. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    The Feds need to get involved.

    I suggest a mandatory training program for ANYBODY that has not had previous military weapons training if they want to own any type of firearm. I specify military weapons instead of just military because some branches of service and jobs in the military don't require the service member to have any real type of contact with rifles/handguns. In the Marine Corps every Marine shoots their M-16/M-4 multiple times per year no matter their job. In the Air Force, for example, some members shoot 20 rounds through an M-16/M-4 in basic training and never touch one again. Some member in the military get handgun training and some don't.

    This mandatory training should be long enough to not only teach weapons safety, but also familiarize a person with the weapon(s) they want to purchase and also require that they are proficient. Not Olympic or Marine Corps Expert badge shooter proficient, but they should be able to safely hit a reasonable target at a reasonable distance. If not, no gun for you. And if they go through the class for a pistol and then want to purchase an AR they need to go through an accelerated AR/Rifle class too. On top of this, each instructor should have to go through some sort of mental health eval training. They should be able to pick up on certain types of mental health issues from their students that would preclude them from passing the course and thus not be able to purchase a weapon. Yes, I realize that this is subjective and is that "slippery slope" that some want to avoid, but tough ****. If you're crazy you can't own a weapon. If you're violent, you can't own a weapon.

    When you do something that can potentially take a life, drive a car, perform surgery, etc, you should have to go through extensive training. That time has come for people who want to own a gun.
     
    Puka-head, KeyFin and ToddPhin like this.
  7. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    4,325
    753
    113
    Apr 14, 2008
    Sorry, Carmen! That really, really sucks! Hug anyone you can for those of us from far away. We are all thinking of you guys!
     
    Carmen Cygni and Paul 13 like this.
  8. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

    74,845
    34,061
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    It's hard to talk about what happened yesterday without bringing up the gun debate. Thoughts and prayers to all those affected yesterday. It's a complex problem. You can't solve it by doing one thing (banning assault rifles as an example). And part of me wants to do the AR ban just so a certain segment of the population can shut the **** up when the next mass shooting occurs with whatever gun that wasn't banned.

    -I think broken homes doesn't help (divorced parents or single parents raising a child, or in this case apparently both parents were deceased)
    -video games sensationalizing first person shooters doesn't help.
    -violence on tv doesn't help, kids getting desensitized to people dying as if it's no big deal. EX. I saw Clint Eastwood in Magnum Force when I was in my teens in the 80s... that one scene where the shooter kills all those people in the pool gave me nightmares. Now though? A scene like that is common place. Kids these days aren't affected by it.
    -parent disconnect doesn't help. Gotta stay on top of our kids and what they digest mentally on a daily basis. Near impossible task with all the phones/ electronics/ access these kids have these days.

    So common theme in my mind... the parents... and if they aren't around, society needs to help out with these kids/young adults.

    And this is getting political so probably gonna have to delete this :sad:
     
  9. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Did you watch any of the kids being interviewed? None of them seemed scared, or even affected by the events that they just witnessed. Some talked about the "dead bodies" they saw, the blood, etc, without even an ounce of emotion. It was just stated as matter of fact as I've ever seen.

    Scary times we are living in.
     
    Puka-head, ToddPhin and Paul 13 like this.
  10. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

    74,845
    34,061
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Yes, I saw some kids that had to have been in shock and couldn't emote what they were feeling. There were kids that started to break up when speaking about it as well. It was a mix that I saw. Couple of the girls I saw had no emotion, like they were robots talking about the facts. It did make me think there might be something wrong with them beyond the obvious circumstances of the day.
     
  11. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

    25,824
    11,474
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    You expect a gun instructor to be able pick up on mental health issues? If the person is an obvious nut, then yes. But overall, there's no qualification to do that. The issue here isn't training with deadly weapons. I won't get into the real root cause - which is poverty and negative environments around these kids that lose it, because we know that will never change. THe issue is that even when a school (or any type of official) identiies someone that needs help and is a potential danger to others, there is neither a good system to help those people or resources to help these kids before it happens.
     
  12. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

    25,824
    11,474
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    very good points. I'd throw on top of that another issue - these school shootings are now so common place that these kids in trouble feel like it's now the best way to maximize their damage. used to be horrible enough when an adult would shoot up an office place, but murdering kids is just a higher level of awfulness IMO.
     
    Paul 13 likes this.
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,627
    7,375
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    A good friend from high school was on the other end of that equation yesterday- he was a surgical tech working on all the teachers/kids being brought in. He can't talk about patients but he said that it was one of the worst days of his life with all the chaos at the hospital...that really made this feel a lot more personal for me.

    As to a solution, I don't think it's a gun problem or a mental health problem...it's 100% a society problem. If you look at all the shooters over the past 10 years, every single one of them started out being a victim- whether it was bullying, abuse at home or something similar. Because of the way kids use social media as their real reality these days, your life is being monitored under a microscope and it makes these types of folks feel 10x more alone. They get depressed, think about suicide, and then wake up one day angry...and it leads to this. The key is paying attention and someone reaching out before these people get to that nuclear level, and that can only happen at home and in the schools.

    This is a MUST WATCH video from Sandy Hook Promise, a non-profit awareness group started over the shootings-

     
    Carmen Cygni and danmarino like this.
  14. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    That's why I said the instructors should have to go through additional training.

    The biggest and quickest thing that would HELP lessen these incidences is making the availability less easy. Poverty is waaaaaaaaaaay down on the list as to the reason why this happens. Mental health is waaaaaaaay high on that list. It's very difficult to address those two things, but it's not as difficult to do what I suggested. Creating a system that requires every person to undergo intensive weapons training carried out by weapons instructors with mental health training.

    The resources are there. It's just that people turn a blind eye or think, "Naaa, he would never shoot up a school".

    Obviously these kids/adults who do this are mentally deranged and most came/come from bad environments. But without the weapon they can't do what they do. This 19 yr old either purchased this AR himself with no background check and legally, stole it from a careless owner who didn't keep it locked up, or "borrowed' it from a friend/relative. If the first is true, my recommendation would have stopped him from getting this rifle. If the second is true, better mandatory training may have prevented the owner from being careless, and if it's the third the relative/friend could also be held liable under my training regulations. (I'd also make it illegal to allow anyone to loan a weapon to another person who hasn't gone through the mandatory training)
     
    Carmen Cygni likes this.
  15. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,362
    5,539
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
    Ohio Fanatic, Paul 13, aesop and 5 others like this.
  16. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    4,325
    753
    113
    Apr 14, 2008
    Out of curiosity, who enforces all of this?
     
  17. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    The state would enforce it.
     
  18. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    4,325
    753
    113
    Apr 14, 2008
    At least you didn’t say would enforce it well. Because something that nuanced would be very difficult.
     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,627
    7,375
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    That's horrible! I heard he stepped into the gunfire to shield his students though...it does not get more heroic than that. We should start a Go-Fund-Me campaign for his family as a site, then we can all share it out on social as well. If you guys are up for it, I'll write a compelling tribute in the morning and get the campaign launched.

    Let's make it your call Carmen. If you want to do it though, I'll go big with a press release to the media stations, etc. to give us a shot at a large number.
     
  20. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,362
    5,539
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    He did. Always put others first. There's a solid story that I linked about Coach Feis in my post above.

    That's awesome, and thank you so much for the sentiment, but the community already has a Go Fund Me going for all the victims and their families. You can contribute here if you like: GoFundMe.com/stonemandouglasvictimsfund

    *Here's a specific link set up for Coach Feis:

     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  21. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    All laws dealing with mental instability are very difficult. And laws that some perceive as infringing on their rights are always going to disrupt the system.

    For years I was one of those "It's not the gun" people. However, and even though I still believe it's not the gun, something has to be done about the guns because people are moving away from being kind and responsible to callous and reckless. I've always said that I don't want the Government babysitting citizens. Well, the time has come for the Government to start babysitting. I'm just sick of these *******s shooting kids. It has to stop. And frankly, at this point, I'd be OK with a mass Federal, door to door movement that removed everybody's guns and we had to start over with the issuing of guns. Now, I know that would never work, but if you knew me you'd understand what a huge change of heart I've had by writing that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
    eltos_lightfoot and KeyFin like this.
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,627
    7,375
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    As I shared last year, my 19 year old daughter is mentally unstable and we jumped through circus hoops trying to get her help. She'd have a complete meltdown, contemplate suicide, and there was absolutely nowhere to bring her except the ER because of insurance/ legislative/ broken system reasons. In turn, the ER would get pissed at us, ignore my kid, and eventually they'd call around to see if a bed was available somewhere in a mental facility anywhere in the state. Sometimes we'd sit in the ER for 2-3 days at a time before getting admitted somewhere else and a lot of the time, it would be 3-4 hours away. It didn't matter though, you'd put your entire life on hold and make the trip, grab a hotel and make it to the daily "family counseling" sessions and visitation.

    Now, you'd think problem solved, right? She's in a place where they can treat her? Let me describe a "children's psych ward". You walk in to bright cheery colors, a huge gathering area where kids can sit around and play, tons of toys, games and coloring books plus snack drawers packed with every possible candy/snack you can think of. The kids/teens spend most of the day just hanging out with each other, talking freely and largely unsupervised, with two nurses sitting as a desk 30 feet away. They do have group therapy sessions and each kid meets with a doctor for 5-10 minutes a day, but every single one of these programs tell us that they're not there to treat...their only job is to observe and let the kid get through the hard stuff on their own. The stay is 5-7 days and if they don't kill themselves in that time, then the crisis is averted and the state sees no need for additional "treatment".

    It's basically a summer camp BUT there's one glaring issue, now your kid is meeting other crazy kids and they're friending each other on Facebook after they leave. So now my crazy daughter is reaching out to other crazy kids for advice when she's down, she still has zero treatment and guess what...we were right back at a facility a few months later. We played this game over and over and over again while our kid went through hell, the system refused to help and the only treatment available was time out with other crazy folks.

    And do you want to know the real kicker here folks? A main criteria to be diagnosed with almost any mental illness is that you have to be 18. They were telling my kid at 16 that she's probably bipolar, but they didn't want to properly treat her until she was 18. So they give her Ritilan (an ADD drug) and other sedatives to calm her down, but the meds didn't work and she remained unstable. We know she attempted suicide twice and contemplated it a dozen more times. She's threatened to kill multiple people for treating her so badly....are those just words? We don't know, but we desperately tried to find her help and the system 100% didn't care.

    Finally, when my kid was 17, we found a psychiatrist in Greenville Health System that actually cared. He said she's not going home until she's ready and he kept her for 12 days. At that point, he said he has to kick her out due to insurance but if we drove off the property and she seemed unstable, to pull right back around into the ER and say that she mentioned suicide or threatened someone. Yup, he told us to outright lie because that's the only way you can "win the game"...just be sure the cameras can verify that we left the property. My kid hated this guy because he challenged her but at the same time, he got a proper diagnosis and got her on the right path. He also set us up with the right counselors and taught us how to work around the laws to get immediate help when she needed it....something that we spent four years trying to figure out.

    If it wasn't for this one doctor, my kid was on the path to being one of these "monsters" you see on the news. And it is 100% the government's fault for not taking mental health seriously....they want to "stabilize" (meaning, wait it out while doing nothing) and then it's someone else's problem the next time around. Also, do you think my kid is on some kind of "watch list"? Hell no, she could go buy a shotgun, pistol, or a rifle today. She wanted to join the military and they turned her down due to multiple hospital stays, that's the only "penalty" she has in life.

    But here's what my entire story doesn't tell you- my daughter is a sweet, loving, kind-hearted kid. She LOVES helping children and old people. She's a super-hard worker (anywhere but at home). She also has a genius level IQ and ranked in the top 0.1% in the nation in standardized testing in elementary and middle school- she had Ivy League scholarship offers at age 12. But once the serious mental issues really kicked in around 14, it was a miracle that she managed to graduate high school at all with a low-C average. For the most part she's 100% normal but when she gets down or depressed, she spirals out of control and keeps going down, down, down...she's her own worst enemy in that regard. Otherwise she's perfectly fine.

    So how do you "fix" kids like my daughter? Step one, get a government that actually gives a ****. Over 100 school shootings later and my kid is still just a statistic that you can bill insurance for on a 7-day stay. The whole system is designed to stabilize, NOT TREAT, and every single one of these shooters were a victim of that system long before they ever thought about picking up a gun. Plain and simple, the USA is decades behind other countries when it comes to mental health. If we were Canadian or French, my kid might be in Harvard right now. But the best we can do in the US is to say she's loony, put her on drugs where the side effects are worse than the symptoms, and maybe put her on some type of list someday.

    That's not going to cut it folks, a list can't save our kids from people who desperately need help and can't find it. My 19 year old simply needs a professional she can call whenever she gets down and receive immediate treatment- do that and none of these school shootings would have ever happened. But you're talking about billions of dollars of funding and the government just doesn't think your children's safety or my kid's sanity is worth that cost...it's easier just to bury bodies and label some teen a monster on the worst day of his life.

    One last thing- it may sound like I'm taking the shooter's side here...and I am. In almost every single case we've seen, there's been a family that went through the EXACT same thing I have over the past 5 years. You don't just wake up one day and decide the solution is to take an AR-15 to your old high school; opportunities to prevent this were missed over and over and over again. Doctors, nurses, guidance counselors, therapists, school resource officers....none of them are properly trained to recognize and help my daughter. They all let my kid down instead of recognizing a child that was begging for help, and I was communicating with them every step of the way. They didn't need warning flags, I was waving them left and right.

    Nobody did anything to help us except for that one awesome doc in Greenville YEARS after this started. And guess what? That was years my kid could have gone postal and did exactly what we keep seeing.

    She's mad at the principals for treating her as a total loser. She's mad at the kids who made fun of her for being out of school so much, the kids who called her crazy, and generally at people who just didn't understand her. Also, she was trained with a rifle with the school's ROTC program...she was the best shot in her class three years straight and one of the top student leaders. So the school system has given her every possible motive, training and resource to do exactly what we just witnessed in Ft. Lauderdale.

    The truly scary part is that everyone knows it and we were BEGGING for help- yet no help came from any resource. So yeah, my kid could have easily been one of these shooters and I honestly believe that it wouldn't have been her fault. Thank God that it didn't come to that.

    Plain and simple, there aren't enough mental health professionals in the US to deal with this problem. If I called for an appointment today for my kid, it would take SIX MONTHS to get seen unless I go through the ER. And the ER staff treats us like dirt because we're not a "real emergency" (person #1 my kid wants to kill is the head ER nurse who always tells her with extreme attitude that she's a joke, a bad person wasting hospital resources and not suffering/suicidal at all). These people are a MASSIVE part of the problem...the medical professionals themselves who don't know a thing about mental health. Counselors need to be trained differently as well, they're more like friends the patients can gossip with...there's no actual treatment 95% of the time. It's all so incredibly broken and yet our kids are being murdered, all because nobody understands my kid or what she faces on a truly bad day.

    The immediate fix here is to change everything about mental health and rethink how we talk about it, how we treat it, and how we label kids struggling from it. Because once you label my kid a loser and say she doesn't matter, then you're creating the perfect storm for what we're seeing today. The biggest thing though is to give my daughter one thing- a phone number she can call day or night when she starts spiraling downward. Not a depression or a suicide hotline, but a licensed professional that can get her immediate treatment, can look at her charts/history/meds, and someone who actually cares. It is such a simple, simple solution but everyone is oblivious to it.

    Oh, and a quick PS here- if my daughter is way down and smokes a joint, it chills her right out and she's fine. She just needs that 15-30 minutes to relax and reset; her brain can't do that naturally like yours or mine can. Marijuana is illegal in South Carolina but it could be a massive benefit to mental health nationwide. It's quick, cheap, effective and basically harmless. Do you want to label my kid a criminal for calming down and not shooting up a school? What about an ex-Marine with PTSD? Or Junior Seau and other NFL athletes? Think about that the next time a vote comes up- we desperately need medical marijuana in all 50 states.

    The school shootings is merely a small aspect of this.....it's the tens of thousands of annual suicides and millions suffering that can benefit from better mental health care as well. This is an epidemic in our country that's not taken seriously- that has to change.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
    danmarino, Puka-head and Carmen Cygni like this.
  23. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,362
    5,539
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    The communities response has been incredible.

    Dolphins staff donates to family of Aaron Feis

    https://www.fanragsports.com/news/dolphins-staff-donates-to-family-of-aaron-feis/
     
  24. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets

    6,320
    2,492
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Slightly left of center
    :bighug::amen:
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  25. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

    25,824
    11,474
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    agree with this very much. I have one teenager with strong depression and anxiety, but luckily we seemed to have made it through the suicide phase. I have another daughter with autism with severe anxiety. Even though I live in a great area (Boston suburbs) that cares about children with mental health issues, there's still very little they can actually do to help solve the issues. We're parents that are 100% dedicated to our kids. Now imagine many other parents - most of which are not suitable to have kids - ending up with a teenager with mental issues. Those kids won't get the help they need. Asking the schools to raise these kids (or rather address the mental issues) just isn't realistic. these kids end up in a downwards spiral. They have nothing to lose at that point. They copycat what they see on TV.
     
    danmarino and KeyFin like this.
  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,627
    7,375
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    From what we've learned, the medicine helps stabilize but it's a long process playing with the dosages to get it just right- most people need a few years. The big thing though is cognitive behavioral therapy- that's where they learn actual coping mechanisms and how to alter their own thought process when they start to get down. We've had three different insurances (my wife's job at a hospital, medicaid, and Blue Cross/Blue Shield through Obamacare) and none of them cover the long-term therapy which is around $30k a year.

    Here's the thing though- I make solid money being self-employed but my wife had to quit her job to be home with our problem child. With all the medical travel we did and the loss of income, we're probably out $40k a year dealing with this. Four years and that's $160k of money not going to bills or groceries- most families can't begin to afford that...it's like paying for a 2nd home. And that's another thing these shooters have in common; their families didn't have the time or the resources to get good treatment.

    I'm nowhere near a "perfect parent", but I couldn't imagine this exact same situation with a deadbeat dad or an alcoholic mom that didn't care....my kid would DEFINITELY be dead today in that situation. I can't tell you how hard I fought just so she'd have the opportunity to graduate and walk the stage- people don't realize that the parents usually have it worse than the kids just dealing with everything. That's what the good doctor we finally found told us- he insisted that we consider my daughter's long stay as a vacation to focus on us. We needed to stop working harder than our kid and expect it to help...she had to put in the work to better her own life.
     
    Puka-head likes this.
  27. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

    25,824
    11,474
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    yeah, that's my point. hard enough to do this in a successful family with resources. We did do similar thing as you. Wife quit her job to take care of our two higher maintenence kids. We dropped about 50-60K a year in salary. I just finding myself working much harder to compensate long run, but it's worth it.
     
    danmarino and KeyFin like this.
  28. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets

    6,320
    2,492
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Slightly left of center
    OK, I'll swallow the throw up in the back of my throat and say yeah, I agree with that. I am agreeing with the Federalist, who'd a thunk it?

    Honestly however, the article points out what I think are the two biggest roblems in our society. Parenting and Mental Health. And a large portion of Mental Health issues arie from a lack of parenting.
    I do not agree that "the sanctimony of marriage" has anything to do with parenting. It takes dedication and love, not balls or vajj's.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  29. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets

    6,320
    2,492
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Slightly left of center
    I'm watching the news right now. These kids from MSD...Makes me weep. That's bravery, courage, heart...all those empty words. How they are finding the strength I got no idea. No words. Just wow. Go kids, this dad's proud of you.
     
    danmarino and Carmen Cygni like this.
  30. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    lol...Good job on keeping an open mind.

    I agree that dedication and love trumps (pun intended..lol) balls or va-j-j, but there is truth in that typically a boy needs a good male role model. I think the author could have left off the "sanctity of marriage" part for this debate. I don't think that role model needs to be married to the mother, per se, but I think a male figure is needed for the proper emotional development of boys. Yes, many boys have grown up to be successful men without a father figure, but I think that's the exception.
     
    Puka-head likes this.
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    71,728
    42,341
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Its not a boy needs a father. It is two parents increase a child's chances for good mental health.

    The problem is society's standards for what is and isn't manly/womanly and how an individual person struggles with those expectations. Kids often struggle with these things so you can see them go to the extremes of what society wants from them.....for the male that extreme is often violence and the female that extreme is often sex.

    If we started, as a society, to stop with all the stupid gender stereotypes of marlboro men and playboy women, then kids wouldn't have to navigate the this minefield of societal expectations mixed with the instant worldwide focus of media and social media.
     
    KeyFin, Unlucky 13 and Ohio Fanatic like this.
  32. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Extremes are rarely healthy, and are typically rare.

    Society has been trying to make "masculinity" a bad word for years and it's wrong. Boys and girls are different on a genetics level. No matter what some are trying to change, boys are boys and girls are girls. Yes, some girls exhibit more "masculine" traits and some boys exhibit more "feminine" traits, but the confusion begins when parents don't define these differences. A little boy that is constantly told that they can be either a boy or girl (by actions or words) gets confused. Typically a boy will model his father and a girl her mother. Now, I'm not referring to a boy who wants to become a seamstress like his mother or a girl that wants to become a car mechanic like her father, I'm talking about how they interact in society. Children who think male and female gender are malleable or one in the same get confused and emotionally scarred. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing a man can do or teach their child that a mother can't do or teach. However, a mother isn’t able to model male emotional expressiveness for their sons. Mothers also can't demonstrate to their daughters the type of love they get from their dad. Girls develop a sense for the ideal mate from their fathers, we are their first loves and their first heroes. Not to say mothers aren’t heroes in their own way, but girls see dad as their Prince Charming. Girls also pick up their more masculine traits and mannerisms from their fathers. Moms can't be men. I know that's not a popular thing to say right now, but it's true nonetheless.


    The Single Parent Dilemma: It’s very difficult for a mother to discipline an angry teenage son. This is something that I've can be seen from decades of work. Women can and do raise wonderful boys and bring them to manhood, but if there’s a conflict - it’s tough.

    A major reason is that a boy – or young man – will often see caving into his mother’s wishes as castrating. This is largely unconscious. It may not be right, but he hates his dependency – and bridles at being reminded that Mom’s in control. This aggression requires containment, and some single mothers have no one to turn to. One can claim that this statement is culturally biased; that women are perfectly capable of raising healthy, non-violent young men. I agree, but it’s not the whole story.

    article continues after advertisement
    Narcissitic rage develops when someone is frustrated and literally regresses to infant like tantruming in an adolescent or adult body. It's a win at any cost - a self righteous anger. It's a take no prisoners anger. And it's destructive.

    Too many years of clinical experience argues that male rage is best handled by both parents.

    Healthy fathers (and male role models) can serve as an important buffer between a young man’s rage and expressing that rage.

    A normal, well intentioned, father dictates the male creed; real men don't hit women, or threaten them. Real men know how to handle their anger.

    The boy internalizes the father’s strength and it becomes his own. He takes pride in containing his anger – and in his own developing masculinity. This is the healthy outcome. It’s just tough to pull off as a single mom.

    To be fair, some fathers are creeps and destructive.

    In these cases most mothers are quite happy to have a distance. An abusive alcoholic father may cause much more harm than good, showing his son, by example, the legitimacy of bullying when frustrated. Or an embittered father can be so angry that he’ll encourage disrespect in the custodial home, as a way of getting back at his ex wife through their son. These fathers have their own narcisssitic rage. They are better off many miles away.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...201301/angry-boys-sometimes-mom-is-not-enough







    Children who have an active father figure have fewer psychological and behavioral problems



    20-year review includes major US and UK studies


    Active father figures have a key role to play in reducing behaviour problems in boys and psychological problems in young women, according to a review published in the February issue of Acta Paediatrica.

    Swedish researchers also found that regular positive contact reduces criminal behaviour among children in low-income families and enhances cognitive skills like intelligence, reasoning and language development.

    Children who lived with both a mother and father figure also had less behavioural problems than those who just lived with their mother.

    The researchers are urging healthcare professionals to increase fathers' involvement in their children's healthcare and calling on policy makers to ensure that fathers have the chance to play an active role in their upbringing.

    The review looked at 24 papers published between 1987 and 2007, covering 22,300 individual sets of data from 16 studies. 18 of the 24 papers also covered the social economic status of the families studied.

    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-02/bpl-cwh021208.php

    https://www.extension.harvard.edu/inside-extension/role-fathers-childhood-development
     
  33. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

    25,824
    11,474
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    while I can agree that most people who have hopped the fence toward a path of destruction have a very good chance of coming from a broken home, we have to be careful to not associate mental health/stability with the state of one's home. mental health is just as much a biological issue as say trauma induced mental issues from environmental factors. As someone pointed out, having two parents that can double team does help. The bigger issue is that even in homes with two parents, many instances, one parent still sucks - so is that really better than a single parent? I've seen just as many messed up kids that come from homes with "strong" fathers as I have from homes of a single mother.
     
    Puka-head likes this.
  34. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    I agree with you 100%.
     
    Ohio Fanatic likes this.
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

    38,714
    19,908
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Remember when we could list our names in a phonebook bc there was no mapquest to track us down?
     
    Ohio Fanatic and KeyFin like this.
  36. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    They finally found you, huh?
     
    Ohio Fanatic likes this.
  37. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,483
    10,148
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    How does an armed, trained police officer live with himself after hiding and refusing to engage an armed suspect while listening to kids being killed?

    This guy is lower than low. He should go to prison.
     
    Puka-head and KeyFin like this.
  38. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

    25,824
    11,474
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    I always tell my oldest child - you don't judge people when things are going well, you judge them on how they respond when things are going bad. Having said that, I believe that a good portion of our population would react in the same manner. THat's why the idea that you could get multiple teachers per school that could rescue the situation is absurd to me. I've met every teacher in my kids elementary school. there might be one - maybe - that could actually be brave enough to pull the trigger - the trigger to kill someone.


     
    Puka-head likes this.
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    71,728
    42,341
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Some people are cowards. He shouldn't be in prison, but he shouldn't be a cop.

    i just think things can change when the bullets are real....including our perception of ourselves.
     

Share This Page