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Just throw Tuaman in the Trenches

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Grippa, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Well maybe we shouldn't have taken a QB with the # 5 pick, that was coming off of a major hip injury if he's too fragile to play. He can't even beat out a washed up journeyman QB. Burrow and Herbert didnt have pre seasons either and yet somehow they're able to play.
     
  2. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I think that we have a couple boxes checked for the argument to put in Tua.

    #1A - The line looks good. I remember last year, and that line was outright dangerous. I look at the guys out there now, and I see a respectable group. I do not see this as being dangerous.

    #1B - I don't think he is gonna get shell shocked. Again, he is mobile and the line is good enough where I don't envision him taking an ungodly amount of sacks.

    #2 - The medicals appear good. We moved on from Rosen which means that they are comfortable putting him in if Fitzpatrick were to get hurt.

    #3 - Character - I mean wasn't this the big reason people wanted him over Herbert? I could not see a universe where if he struggled we have a Ryan Leaf on our hands or he checks out mentally. I really, really do not think this is a QB you are gonna ruin.

    Reality check - You don't make the change during a shortened week.

    I do think that our game versus Seattle really is the first time that you could make the switch. Tua could be given an extended time with the first stringers and a more thoughtfully developed game plan could be designed for him. If we lose versus Jacksonville, I think the coaching staff may be out of reasons to start Fitzmagic. If we do wind up winning, the argument could still be made that Fitzmagic is the best QB to keep us in contention. I still think it is a good week to consider making the switch, and it could still happen.

    The Caveat - If Tua appears lost or does not understand the system or has timing/processing issues. If he is obviously not ready, I would never argue in favor of putting him in.
     
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  3. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    My god, it's been 2 games. People need to chill. Took Mahomes a year to take over and he's the best QB in the league. There is no magic formula.

    All that said, I want Tua sooner rather than later. Starting against the Jags would be my preference.
     
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  4. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    He was who I wanted to draft and I hope he continues his success. I really like his game and think it translates the best of the draft class at QB to the NFL level.

    I didnt think Burrow had it in him as a one year wonder, but hes looked the part more or less so far.
     
  5. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    IMO, what he did was incredible. He didn't even work much with the first team guys in camp. He only started because Tyrod's shoulder was acting up. Tyrod was supposed to start. He came in and was very composed. He drove them downfield then ran it in for a TD and then drove them down again and threw a TD. He made that one bad rookie mistake. He should have ran it for that first down, but decided to throw it. Other than that, the guy was very good.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  6. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    But somehow Tua needs more time. BS. He needs to be starting so we can see what he can do. Anyone saying he needs to sit is nuts. How come the other two qbs taken can play on bad teams but our QB needs to wait till the O-line is better and we have better receivers?
     
  7. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Because not everything is the same in life. Sometimes there is a gray area. I myself don't think he's ready to play yet. It would be a mistake to put him there when he's not ready because if he struggles, and we go back to Fitzpatrick, it's going to be an awkward failure similar to how it was with Rosen.
     
  8. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    How is he not ready? He's been playing football all of his life. Either his hip is still injured or he's not very good. There are no other reasons he shouldn't be playing. He can't beat out a journeyman QB who really isn't that good?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  9. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Bungals have no-one else & Taylor went down late, which meant they had to throw Herbert in there - not even remotely the same situation.
    Wasted pick, SMH
     
  10. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Has Fitz been the issue the last 2 weeks - didn't realise he has been playing DL or corner
     
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  11. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Every one of these 1st round quarterbacks too have/had played football all of their lives. By my count, 17 of them are either no longer a starter or no longer in the league.

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-in-1st-round-of-nfl-draft-in-the-last-decade

    And that's just the last decade. If we were to look even further back at first round draft picked quarterbacks and where they ended up, that count would be much higher.
     
  12. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Didn't you know that EVERYTHING is the quarterback's fault? :tongue2:
     
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  13. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    What does that prove? A good QB is gonna be a good QB. A bad one will be out of the league quickly. If tua is as good as most of the posters on here think he is, then he should be playing. Marino could have sat for a year or started game 1. It wouldnt have made a difference because he had "It". If tua has "It" it won't matter when he plays
     
  14. ConvenientTruth

    ConvenientTruth Member

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    Success of QBs in the NFL depends heavily on the situation they are trust into. IF a team has n need to rush a player out to play QB then a team should not do so. While the o-line has looked much better then last year, it is still an issue and Fitzy has the second least amount of time to throw. That is a solid group, but allowing the line time to gel and workout some of the communication kinks will only benefit Tua when he does step on the field.

    A few other points...

    Tua is two years younger then both Herbert and Burrow...

    Burrow has done a solid job, but throwing 61 times for just over 300 yards is very poor efficiency and doesn't lend itself to winning football. I like Burrow and he is an impressive layer, but at some point, playing in that situation eventually breaks down a player.

    Herbert came into a game and started when the other team had fully prepped for another QB, I don't want to take anything away from his performance, but Herbert, while under pressure, still looked liked Herbert.

    Tua is no longer listed on the team's injury report so the wait now is for the situation to be right. Could be next week, could be a month from now...will it matter in two years? Does it make a huge difference that Tribusky and Watson both started games way before Mahomes? Both had some early success as well... What about Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield getting the starting nods before Jackson...did it give them a leg up on him?

    in the end....

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did he start or come in after an injury? I turned it on in the 2nd quarter so I wasn't sure. He did look pretty comfortable out there though and he moved well in the pocket to make the right adjustments.
     
  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    He started the game.

    I guess Tyrod had some cracked ribs and the doctor punchured his lung when giving him pain killers.
     
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  17. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Hire him to work on Fitzpatrick.
     
  18. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    The Marino comparison is rubbish. He took over a team that had just went to the Super Bowl the year prior.

    Those quarterbacks that washed out were drafted by teams that absolutely sucked and instead of settling the young rookie up for success, they threw them right to the wolves and ruined their careers
     
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  19. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    You missed my point about Marino. He was gonna be good no matter what. What about Peyton Manning? The Colts sucked when they drafted him. If I remember correctly, he played right away. Being on a trash team didn't hurt him. That's because he also had "It". Those quarterbacks you mentioned would have sucked no matter what. Do you think John Beck would have been good if he was on a good team? Nope, he would suck no matter what. If you're good, you're good. If you ain't, you ain't. No matter which team or if you sit or play right away.
     
  20. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Dude, I dislike Tua but you're kind of making all of us who dislike his game for legitimate reasons look bad. It's why people dont take us seriously.

    Please chill a little. His starting or not starting two games in isnt the reason to have doubts. Its irrelevant.
     
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  21. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I don't necessarily have doubts. I mean I wanted Hebert but it is what it is. I just wonder why other rookies are playing but he cant/isn't. Either he looks bad in practice or the coaches are incompetent
     
  22. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    As far as I can tell this whole discussion is mostly pointless. Putting a QB in from the start doesn't necessarily hurt their development nor does holding them out. Everything is situational and dependent on the individual. I would imagine that all QB's benefit from seeing and learning the game, and Tua certainly seems to be using the time to connect, to learn, to do all due diligence. I have no doubt whatsoever that when the call comes he'll be ready and eager. Does this hurt him? I don't think so. He's been in this situation before. He sat on the bench in college, got the call and stepped up to win the game.

    Although it's possible that the staff are seeing that Tua isn't as good as expected or isn't up to scratch yet we've there is simply no indication that's the case. If it is the case then there's no good putting him in. If it's not, then clearly the staff don't think it's an indictment against the QB to not put him in yet.

    My guess is that Flores is taking a wide and long view. He's not going to allow himself to feel pressured to do anything he doesn't need or want to do. He's building a team from scratch, he's evaluating everything - including other coaches and coordinators. It's possible that the staff feel that giving more time for Tua to develop or heal is necessary or beneficial, that holding him out is purely for Tua's benefit. On the other hand, Tua might be incidental to Flores' plan. It could be that with all the changes, and with Gailey coming in (because the loss of the previous OC wasn't Flores' plan), an experienced QB gives Flores a more stable platform for evaluating everything else.

    The last option is that the staff genuinely feel that Fitz gives them the best chance to win overall.

    Whatever the case, there's no way we can know. There are legitimate reasons for any scenario.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  23. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ahh.. ok, so there it is. You're just not happy with the pick of Tua? I think everyone knew wherever Tua ended up he likely wouldn't be ready to start week 1 for health reasons likely. Everyone knew that; I'm not sure why you're struggling with this now. He's going to play this year; it's just a matter of when. Why would you put your prized possession QB coming off an injury with no camp or preseason time behind a new offensive line that hasnt been great and needs time to gel? It's just common sense. This team isn't built to compete or win this year; so what's the rush? If Tua had played week 1 and 2, we're likely still 0-2 based on how our defense has performed.
     
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  24. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Take this for what you will:

     
  25. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    ???
     
  26. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    No, I didn't like the pick. But he was picked and now I want to see what we have. Is joe burrow less of a prized possession than tua? Cincys O-line is arguably worse than ours, yet he's starting. Why is that? So do we wait until we have a pro bowl caliber O-line before he gets to play? We very well may end up with the 1st pick next year. I'd like to see if tua is totally horrible and if so, get Trevor Lawrence. Let me guess, you think that's a stupid idea. Can you honestly tell me that if we have the number one pick you wouldnt want Lawrence?
     
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  27. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    That's a valid concern, but while the decision not to play Tua might be frustrating it doesn't necessarily mean there is an issue with Tua - just that Flores' plan/decision doesn't help with what your plan would be.
     
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  28. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Tyrod Taylor to return as starting QB following decent game by Herbert.



    (Sort of. He would have started if the team doc hadn't punctured his lung with an injection!)
     
  29. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Yeah man but look at it this way.

    I agree Marino would have been Marino whenever he was in. The fact that he didnt play by week 2 didnt prevent him from being Marino either.

    If you want to know why hes sitting, its because:

    A) Its not impossible to win 7-8 games with Fitz which puts you in the playoff hunt. Going into the year.

    B) The team is young. You dont want a rookie trying to lead rookies. It's a recipe for looking like **** on the field.

    Like, in 5 years are you going to care if he didnt start until week 10 his rookie year if hes a top 5 QB?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  30. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Didn’t the fans of Kansas City riot in the streets, burning Andy Reid in effigy and set fire to Arrowhead Stadium when Mahomes rode the bench in 2017?
     
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  31. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    And they were right. He should have been starting from game one. How do you know what you have in a player unless you put him in a game?
     
  32. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fans rioting in the streets? Who better to decide the direction of a franchise or a nation?
     
  33. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Jesus, God, Mary and Joseph...for REAL? The 2016 Kansas City Chiefs were 12-4 with Alex Smith as their quarterback. Why in God's name would replace Alex Smith with Patrick Mahomes in 2017? They started the 2017 season 5-0 for crying outloud. It's not like the Chiefs were 0-5 in 2017 and Reid stuck with Smith instead of putting in his new rookie. The Chiefs finished the season 10-6 and made the playoffs. Did they lose that Wildcard game? Yea, they did and Andy Reid made the call that it was time to transition to Mahomes. Andy Reid set Mahomes up for success and the rest is history.

    Tua Tagovailoa in Miami is nowhere in the same boat as Mahomes was in Kansas City. In fact, Miami and Kansas City are/were in two different bodies of water when it comes to their drafted quarterbacks. Mahomes was drafted to a seaworthy cruise ship where Tagovailoa was drafted to a dingy with multiple rips and tears that you wouldn't take to a duck pond
     
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  34. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not on board with the rioting but it looks like the fans were right. Maybe if mahomes started that year, they wouldnt have gotten eliminated in the wild card round. Lots of coaches arent as smart as they think they are. Just like how every dolphin fan knew picking jamar Fletcher instead of drew brees was moronic. Sometimes the fans know better
     
  35. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying that mahomes shouldn't have started because he was on a good team and Tua shouldn't start cause he's on a bad team? How does that work exactly?
     
  36. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    That's not exactly what I said. This si going to take several short posts...exchanging back and forth to get my point across (sometimes I wish the site had an IM lol).

    Answer this question...Why didn't Dan Marino start week 1 during the 1983 season?
     
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  37. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Because we went to the Super Bowl the year before and Woodley was a serviceable QB. Still, he could have started week one and it wouldn't have mattered with him. He was going to be great no matter what. Tua was being talked about as being the number one pick overall. If a QB picked #1 overall isn't NFL ready, what qb is?
     
  38. ConvenientTruth

    ConvenientTruth Member

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    Question...what is the difference between Woodley being "serviceable" vs Fitz? I am curious as Miami went to that Super Bowl in a strike shorten season..Woodley I think threw 5 TD's in those 9 games, they had the number 1 ranked defense...

    So please tell me how in the hell Marino was not starting from day one as Woodley was a below average QB.
     
  39. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    That's a great question. He should have been. Who knows, maybe it was an unwritten rule back then that rookies don't start game one. He was NFL ready the second he was drafted.
     
  40. ConvenientTruth

    ConvenientTruth Member

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    Elway did...
     

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