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Just throw Tuaman in the Trenches

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Grippa, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. Grippa

    Grippa Member

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    I hate when we draft a QB in rd one in the draft just to sit behind a old qb that ain’t part of the plan.

    watching burrow playing
    I can’t help to think to myself why not Tua
    ( Sporano voice ) when he said whyyy not us
     
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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It’s all about Fitz at this point, he controls his destiny.keep playing like **** and losing, he gone..let’s see where we’re at after week four.
     
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  3. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Burrow is way older, need to get him going sooner.

    Also, he has a better surrounding cast and had a more favorable matchup the first few weeks. The Chargers are good but they had to go from LA to Cinci, always tough. Now they are playing the Browns, not exactly a defensive juggernaut. We faced BB on the road and then Buffalo's nasty defense.

    If Fitz blows again this week though, Tua time on Thursday Night Football against the Jags.
     
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  4. Grippa

    Grippa Member

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    Very good point.
     
  5. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    They wouldn't start him on a short week. And, they will probably wait until after Seattle and San Francisco back to back. Barring any injury to Fitzpatrick of course, I believe he starts week 6.
     
  6. Alan in England

    Alan in England Member

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    what could we reasonably expect from Tua if he is thrown in? A lot of pressure on him after all the hype of his signing
     
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  7. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    If he doesn't throw 8 TD passes his first game he will be labeled a bust.
     
  8. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it would be prudent to throw Tua out there behind five offensive linemen who've never played together, two of whom are rookies, after an abbreviated preseason.

    Get a sense of how that line is going to function and then make the decision about Tua.

    Right now this entire team is feeling the difficulty associated with 1) huge amounts of personnel turnover over two years, 2) youth and inexperience all over the roster, and 3) an abbreviated preseason. The fact that they didn't get blown away by New England last week is a testament to coaching.
     
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  9. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    It would be awful to throw him in soon. In my opinion his ceiling isnt much higher than acceptable starter, best case, to begin with. For the sake of argument though let's say he is going to be great.

    There is no way he can or should have a full handle on the offense, especially with all of the new additions already playing together for the first time.

    Like it or not, Fitz is going to be the glue that holds the offense together most of the early season at minimum. Hopefully it gets better than last week.
     
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  10. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Woah woah woah. You are saying Burrow has a better group around him? That offensive line may be worse than Miami's last year. He has AJ Green and who else? The Cincinnati offense made the Browns look like a defensive juggernaut. No way.
     
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  11. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Last time we drafted a QB in round 1 and didn't start him opening week it turn out pretty well, some kid named Marino.
     
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  12. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Of all of the dumbest things the Dolphins could do, putting Tagovailoa in now would top them all...including passing on Brees for Culpepper.

    Let Carroll Shelby (Flores) fine tune the GT40 (Dolphins offensive unit) before putting Ken Myles (Tagovailoa) behind the wheel.

    Fitzpatrick is expendable. Tagovailoa isn’t and putting him in before that offensive unit can play competently is a recipe for yet another Dolphins disaster
     
  13. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also, the Bengals have no-one else after getting rid of Dalton - as soon as that happened, you knew that Burrow was more than likely to start
     
  14. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Sitting behind a veteran sure seemed to work out ok for Aaron Rodgers.

    With Tua’s injury history and hip, I’d rather we give him time. We also don’t have a good OL developed yet to give him the best chance of success. We’re far away from win now so I think we’re in develop now mode.
     
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  15. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Though our personal thoughts on Tua himself may differ, I agree 100% with what you're saying here.

    At minimum the position players should be carrying their own weight ideally before you even think of Tua.

    In terms of the OL, it was more promising last week than last season but NE didnt run anything crazy defensively. They just lined up and challenged us for the most part.
     
  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Burrow was running for his life last night and still almost brought them back...I think he's going to be the real deal. Hoping Tua will be as well.

    The media seems to think if we lose weeks 2-3, Tua will start week 4. I'm not sure if our front office agrees with that.
     
  17. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but by the same token we can't swing the pendulum to the extreme and hold out for some sort of exceptionally good offensive line functioning before Tua is inserted. The vast majority of QBs in the league don't have exceptionally good offensive lines and need to manage pressure themselves. Tua in all likelihood will be one of them, because the odds are that the Dolphins won't have one of the best offensive lines in the league. Russell Wilson has been managing pressure in an exemplary manner, behind a relatively poor offensive line, throughout his career, starting as a rookie third-round pick in 2012. Tua by contrast is a #5 overall pick.

    The priority right now, given that the linemen haven't played together before, two of them are rookies, and the preseason was abbreviated, should be to simply ensure the offensive line isn't so poor that it gets Tua hurt or otherwise interferes with his development. Once that hurdle has been cleared, the decision regarding Tua should no longer involve the offensive line. The team shouldn't be holding out until it has the Dallas Cowboys' offensive lines of the 1990s before inserting Tua.
     
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  18. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    As long as we are stouter up the middle. I feel the Cinci C spent more time in the backfield than Baker lol. As Guy says, we simply wont have a quintet of All Stars, but we can't have one spot be on skates like that, yeesh.

    I still think that as long as the staff is good with his hip status and if Fitz blows again, it's week 3. Not like JVille with no/minimal crowds will be a rough away location and hopefully the team will be amped up for a prime time game. Then you get a home match with Seattle whose defense is just OK these days before the big test going to the west coast to face San Fran.
     
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  19. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Sunday's game is going to be a true test for the new offensive line, even with Edmunds and Milano out. Buffalo has built a STOUT defense and it's going to be a true test for the OL. If they can offer good consistent protection for Fitzpatrick as well as open up some decent running lanes for Gaskins and Breida, the "GT40" may be well on its way for Tagovailoa to take over...provided he's "driving" well enough to do so.
     
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  20. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I also agree with this.

    By carrying their own weight this is sort of what I meant, the phrase is just a little broad to get it across.

    Obviously we cant just not play him forever because the parts arent ready and like you said obviously we dont want him killed.

    I just want the the team, specifically the line, looking like it isnt a detriment to his development and the skill positions to sort of understand all their assignments a bit better in the offense.

    Also I'd say Wilson is a much more elusive athletic QB. He actually has a lot if running capability despite the fact he uses his athleticism mostly to pass.

    Tua is more athletic than a standard drop back passer, but i dont know if he has the tools Wilson does to deal with abnormal pressure.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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  21. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Wilson is just an example. Dan Marino for example had the quickness of a sloth but he could evade pressure in the pocket with the best of 'em. Same with Brady. QBs have to manage pressure. The pass-rushers are getting paid big too.
     
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  22. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Not a relevant comparison. Marino took over and led a team that had just appeared in the Super Bowl the prior season...so its not like he was taking over on a team that was horrible the year prior.
     
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  23. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Now, you just know that good common sense doesn't cut the mustard with some folks with a shiny new toy. It took Ole Carroll a couple of trips to make those GT's actually able to beat the Ferrari's. Let's not do what FORD did and pull the game out from underneath him before he had complete domination. Let's get everybody tuned up, all the parts adjusted, and all properly torqued down, and then see how the newly fired up critter stands up to the long straights and twisted curves. That may take a little time.
     
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  24. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Agreed. If Tagovailoa is indeed as good as many truly believes he is, then we have GOT to get the offense in sync and working well before putting Tua in. The thing I'm truly looking for is the OL providing Fitzpatrick with DECENT protection and opening up holes for the running backs. If they can show they can consistently perform, THEN you put Tua in. He would have decent protection to work with and be able to transition from the NCAA to the NFL with no excuses. If he flourishes, he flourishes. If he flops, he flops but either way, we'll be able to truly determine his abilities without having to use the excuse, he was running for his life behind a crappy OL.
     
  25. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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  26. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    I know you're being facetious... but I don't think you're wrong.
     
  27. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wouldn't throw him out there yet. No real running game. Not good OL play just yet either. Maybe they'll get better if they have some time to gel, but for the sake of his health and long term future leave him on the bench still. This team isn't playoff bound unless the OL gets way better, the WR's get separation and the defense actually plays well enough to beat a college team. Tua isn't going to fix that. If he wasn't coming off the injury I'd probably sing a different tune, but right now... nope.
     
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  28. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

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    Herbert with his first career start today
     
  29. Alan in England

    Alan in England Member

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    can Tua play defence?
     
  30. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Herbert looks very comfortable out there.
     
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  31. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    I legitimately thought that OP meant in the "trenches" along the defensive line.

    Our d-line is garbage.
     
  32. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I will say that the OL has been one thing that has looked decent. It makes it more reasonable to start him.
     
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  33. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    That was the recipe for nearly literally breaking Tannehill early on in his career.
     
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  34. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    To which the choir should reply: "AMEN!"
    One of the sure fire, almost guaranteed ways to ruin a new quarterback it to throw him to the wolves, which would be better than putting him out there in the unit we have today. The line needs to actually perform as if they have played before, and the defense ought to be able to at least slow down the opponent. We have been through this many times before - getting impatient is not going to make a good line magically appear, a defense able to stop the opposition on critical downs, or the final score be acceptable. Time, patience, the right ingredients on every unit (notably the coaching staff and front office!!), and practice together are vital - and we have not had that combination in a long time.
     
  35. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    VERY good point concerning the defense. Not only everything that has been discussed about the offense to help Tagovailoa, but the defense is equally important. If you have a good stout defense, there's not nearly the amount of pressure that's on a young quarterback as there is with a defense that just lays down on the field, putting the offense behind the 8 ball to win.

    Granted, you want a quarterback who can confidently lead an offense down the field to score and win but if that quarterback is always being asked to overcome a 2-3 score deficit, he's going to fail more times than not.

    Using the Patriots as an example, when Tom Brady was thrust into the starter role following Drew Bledsoe's injury during week 2 of the 2001 NFL season, the Patriots 6th ranked defense was key in helping Brady. Not only were they able to stop opposing offenses and giving the ball back to the Patriots offense, with their 35 turnovers, they were often able to give Brady even more opportunities, often with short fields to work with. A stout defense would work the same for Tua. All of the pressure wouldn't be on him and he would actually get MORE opportunities.

    We're just all going to have to exercise a bit of patience.
     
  36. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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  37. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    So the Bengals and Chargers don't have "things to work out"? The other highly drafted qbs are playing and looking pretty decent while being on bad teams. For some reason our QB can't play? Either he's not healthy or not good enough. Either way, it's starting to look like a wasted pick
     
  38. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    So if the O-line and receivers suck next year too, I guess he shouldn't play then either? Do we wait till we have 5 pro bowlers on the O-line before Tua gets to play? This is ridiculous. Put him in. If he's any good, he'll perform no matter what. If he isn't, he won't. Burrow and Herbert are on bad teams and they're playing. Good qbs are gonna be good no matter when you play them. Put Marino as a rookie on this present team and he'd still look like Marino and excel. because he just had "It". Quit hiding Tua. He's a grown man and was talked about like he could have been taken number 1.
     
  39. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    How many times have you seen a promising quarterback thrown to the fray only to collapse because of inexperience plus a lousy coaching staff have thrown the lamb to the wolfpack. We have seen it on the Dolphins enough in my 54 years of watching them. Patience!!!!! If he can start in the latter half of the season I will be happier than two hogs in a mud waller. Putting him out there now (except in possibly a few well chosen moments) is not only an example of incompetence in general , but of an incompetency to see the totality of the team. Wait till we see if we actually have an offensive line that is not offensive to the home fans, a few receivers who can catch the difficult throws, a running game which can actually put some yards down, and a defense which has enough gall, gumption, and guts to act as if they want to stop the other team.
    Oh, and where is this offensive line's Dwight Stephenson, Roy Foster, and Ed Newman???
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
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  40. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wow, two weeks in to the season after NO PRESEASON for a guy coming off a major hip injury that hasn't even taken an NFL snap and he's starting to look like a wasted pick?

    Now that's what we call an over reaction
     
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