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Joy on Cowherd - Start Rosen

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It's really hard to say where Rosen is at since he was literally running for his life. I went through his last six or seven weeks of throws last season (weeks 10-17) and he had a lot of beautiful passes absolutely on the money....while rolling out or ducking extended arms. To me, it's almost trying to compare a sandlot QB to Marino- there's just no way to tell because it's darn near two different sports. Rosen definitely has talent but we know that's not enough in this league- I'm excited to see what happens anyways.
     
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  2. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    Early on I felt that we should start Fitzpatrick and sit Rosen. Let Rosen get a little more learning time in and see what we have for an online.

    After considering it for a while I think if Fitzpatrick starts, any game he wins hurts us. The only way we win games, and I want to win, and it doesn't hurt us going forward is If Rosen is starting. We gain nothing by winning games with Fitzpatrick so there is no point in putting him out there at all unless Rosen is hurt. I think there is still an argument to be made that waiting a little to see what happens with the line but I think it no longer matters.

    There is really only one goal for this year - settling the QB position or having a plan to land a potential Franchise QB in the draft next year.
     
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    The downside to choosing to field an inferior QB is that it only focuses on the QB. A better QB inspires the rest of the offence and more importantly gives them a chance to play their best and come together.
     
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  4. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I still think whichever guy is the winner in camp has to get the start, as it's the only way to keep the buy in from the other players who are actually having to beat out another guy in order to start. As a coach, you have got to keep that process the same at every position, or you've lost already.
     
  6. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    If there is a huge gulf, then maybe you throw in Fitz until either Rosen improves or Fitz does his usual implosion.

    But if it's even remotely close, gotta go with Rosen. The players have to understand that. And if not, then Fitz needs to be traded. Rosen is not going to get better sitting on the bench and playing practice second string snaps.
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Have you played any organized sports? If so, have you ever been on a team where a coach favored a player? Wouldn't hold him to the same expectations, didn't make him earn his spot like everyone else? Or played him over a better player?

    I have. And it's toxic to the team.
     
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  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Yes and yes. There is a difference between pop warner/HS ball with the coach favoring his buddies kid or his own vs. grown professionals who realize that Fitz is not an answer to anything.

    If this is the attitude we have toward Rosen, we'd have been better off just not trading for him. As it is, we are probably best off trading Fitz.
     
  9. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    The difference I see is in the NFL playing time can mean more $$$, so I see some some guys getting upset if they perceive the process isn’t fair.

    I see Rosen getting the nod if when the lights come on its a tie or better between him in Fitzgerald.
     
  10. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    I'm personally torn on this.

    On one hand, Fitz.

    On the other hand, what does it say about Rosen if he can't at least hang with him?
     
  11. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Can anyone come up with an example of a franchise QB who couldn't come up with the goods in camp and so needed a leg up?

    The guy has his shot. The coaches aren't against him. They'll be giving him every chance to succeed. It's on him to make it happen. If he can't beat out Fitz then either we have our answer and cut him or they can maybe give him another year, but the rest of the team can't wait. They came to play and play hard and that's how it should be.
     
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  12. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    A bunch of examples. Brady couldn't beat out Bledsoe when drafted but started the Patriots dynasty once Bledsoe got injured, Warner couldn't beat out Green in camp but helped start the greatest show on turf once Green got injured, and of course Young couldn't beat out Montana after being traded to SF but then proceeded to become the greatest QB in history by adjusted passer rating (measure of efficiency).

    Don't let the exception prove the rule though. All those examples tell you is that projecting success with QB's in the NFL (especially if they haven't played in the NFL before, though Young shows that's not the only scenario) can be extremely difficult.
     
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  13. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Except those are all injuries. My post may have been unclear, but I was talking about QB's being artificially elevated.

    If Fitz gets injured or plain sucks then that's one thing, but Rosen getting the nod ahead of Fitz without earning it? That's something else.
     
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  14. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Any QB picked very high is "artificially elevated" in the minds of the coaches/GM's that picked him. Many QB's drafted high start right from the get-go nowadays and it's not necessarily because they beat out the vet backup in camp, especially if a coach thinks game time is important for that QB's development.

    That doesn't apply here though because neither Flores's nor Grier's reputations are on the line with Rosen. Everyone knows the Rosen trade was a calculated gamble with relatively low risk/high reward, and not one the future of the franchise rests on.
     
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  15. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    So the point stands, Rosen doesn't need to be, and shouldn't be, just handed the team. If he can't earn it, then bye bye.
     
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  16. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    lol she said ryan fitz would get us 8-8 that already discredits her. we'd be lucky to go 8-8 with peyton manning in his prime this year.

    the writing is on the wall fitz will get weeks 1-4 we'll switch to rosen in the bye week when we are 0-4.
     
  17. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Johnny Unitas was cut by the Steelers as a rookie
     
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  18. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    How is that a leg up? That's a challenge of character if anything.
     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    People tend to forget that the chances of ANY QB developing into a franchise guy is very small. We didn't grab Rosen because we think he's a sure thing- we grabbed him because he's ultra cheap, shows promise and young enough to be developed. I'm as excited as anyone to see how he plays but at the same time, my expectations are zero either way.

    At this point, RT is better than Rosen...although Rosen does handle pressure better (as does every QB in the league when compared to RT). So know that the kid will be a work in progress in an offense that currently looks dysfunctional. All I'm saying is not to expect miracles or an ultra-quick turnaround. Unless our defense really carries us, this is going to be a deplorable season without very many highlights...and that's not going to be because of Rosen either way.
     
  20. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Actually, back to Galant's question, what's going on with Tannehill right now is a good example of how a coach can give a QB an "artificial leg up" and do so publicly. The Titans are not happy with Mariota. The guy looked like he might be their franchise QB his first two years but has regressed since then. He's on the hot seat right now, yet Titans coach Vrabel made it clear that Tannehill will not be competing for a starting job in training camp. And RT is doing fine at Titans camp; you can read reports here:
    https://www.titansonline.com/news/titans-news

    In other words, even though in training camp Tannehill and Mariota are both doing OK, Tannehill won't be given the chance to win the starting job with better performance in camp. He'll have to wait for an injury to Mariota to prove once again that he's average.

    And yes, you're right that average is better than Rosen right now. I fear it will stay that way in the future though. I'll hope I'm wrong though, while thinking I'm probably right lol. Rosen has decision making issues and while I don't think most are correctable, one of them is: the willingness to force throws in tight coverage. That's an issue of Rosen allowing himself to be coached.. or not. Even there I think we'll see the answer is "or not". But that would be the first thing I'd look for if/when he starts.
     
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  21. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Most definitely Tannehill had an artificial leg up over Moore when he was first drafted. We know Tannehill was hand picked by Philbin and his good buddy Sherman and they likely fooled themselves into thinking that Tannehill was ready. It's been said that Moore is not all that impressive at practice but, all you had to do was look at his body of work in the previous season. He came in cold off the bench in relief of Henne and once he got his rhythm he finished the season with a 6 - 3 run. By contrast, Tannehill finished his first season with a 6 - 10 record on 12 TDs to 13 INTs. No way in the world that Moore couldn't have bested that. Philbin was an idiot.
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Well, two things to that-

    1) Mariota has never played 16 games in a season, has he? I know he's had 3 different injuries (to different body parts) three years in a row, so the chances of Tannehill starting at some point this year seem really close to 100% to me.

    2) Since being drafted, RT has outperformed others in camp every season. That makes sense though since he's good at everything but dealing with pressure....and he's not getting hit in practice so there is no pressure. That's how he outlasted four different head coaches.
     
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  23. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    You wanted an example of a QB who couldn’t come up with the goods as a QB in training camp. According to wikipedia he was the 4th of 4 QBs in the Steeler’s camp the year he was drafted.
     
  24. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Correct on both points though Mariota did start 15 games twice. This link details the injuries that caused him to miss at least 1 game every season he's played:
    https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2...-does-that-mean-for-the-titans-moving-forward

    2015: sprained MCL and sprain to his right knee = 4 games missed total
    2016: broke his leg = 1 game missed
    2017: injured hamstring = 1 game missed
    2018: injured ulnar nerve and diagnosed with a stinger = 2 games missed total
     
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  25. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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