Josh Rosen Thread (merged threads)

"Pauly wrote:

I like the analysis, even if I remain unsold on Rosen. It seems that from what he is saying is that the root cause of Rosen’s problems were coaching issues.
- Poor play design
- Playing scared and being slow to go through his reads. He points out that he has seen Rosen process and throw much faster in college than he did in the NFL. To me this is a sign that the coaching staff were telling him to prioritize avoiding risks.
- Lack of help from the OL and WRs (outside of Larry Fitzgerald).

If our coaching staff does their job then there is hope Rosen can be turned around.

It's easier to throw and process information "faster" in the Pac-12 because most of the defenses were either completely suspect or outright hot garbage.

"DolphinGreg wrote:

Bingo.

Peyton Manning got drafted by the Colts in '98 and struggled mightily that year in route to a 3-13 record. Last year the Jets, Bills and Browns went 4-12, 6-10 and 7-9 with their rookie QBs respectively.

Records don't mean that much when looking at a rookie QB. It's whether that QB has the instincts to play the position and the tools to produce. Rosen has that stuff. He was a way better prospect coming out of college last year than Tannehill was in 2012 so I don't see how you can't be excited by this move given the crazy-low investment and the minimal costs salary-wise.

You're omitting the fact that he was no longer a "hot prospect coming out of college" when the Dolphins actually got him. He is now a QB with 1 year experience under his belt who's already developed bad habits and more than likely hears footsteps. That last part can't be argued after reading his stats throwing from a clean pocket.

Regardless, if your explanation of his value is true - the Cardinals wouldn't quit on him after one season, not in a league where QB play is EVERYTHING. The Rosen situation is Occam's Razor. Fans are trying to make themselves feel better about it because of the compensation element. That part I sort've get, but Super Bowls aren't determined by value.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Only people who are divisive over this are Dolphin fans on this board.

Who else matters? We're the ones who have to watch this damn franchise. You make your comment as if everyone else has some sterling reputation for predicting the future, especially in regards to franchise QB's.

"Rock Sexton wrote:

You're omitting the fact that he was no longer a "hot prospect coming out of college" when the Dolphins actually got him. He is now a QB with 1 year experience under his belt who's already developed bad habits and more than likely hears footsteps. That last part can't be argued after reading his stats throwing from a clean pocket.

Regardless, if your explanation of his value is true - the Cardinals wouldn't quit on him after one season, not in a league where QB play is EVERYTHING. The Rosen situation is Occam's Razor. Fans are trying to make themselves feel better about it because of the compensation element. That part I sort've get, but Super Bowls aren't determined by value.

Last I heard was that quarterback was the most important position on the field. That a good team does everything to make sure they have the quarterback.

Now the Dolphins do something aggressive to get a quarterback to see if they can get a special one, they are doing it wrong.

"Rock Sexton wrote:

Who else matters? We're the ones who have to watch this damn franchise. You make your comment as if everyone else has some sterling reputation for predicting the future, especially in regards to franchise QB's.

I make this comment because it is weird how divisive it is on this board, when in the outside world, most people think this is an amazing trade and that the Dolphins got great value.

ya'll are looking at this all wrong. This is the long con play. We are going after trevor lawrence. Fitzmagic plays this year, gets us a low pick, we trade that low pick for mid pick in 2020 and for 2021 draft capitol bc we have Rosen. Rosen plays 2020, does bad or good, if bad, then we get trevor, who is better than all the 2020 QBs.

2020 draft is used on skill players and to shore up any holes in the lines that we may have missed. 2021 trevor lawrence and more skill positions.

"muskrat21 wrote:

ya'll are looking at this all wrong. This is the long con play. We are going after trevor lawrence. Fitzmagic plays this year, gets us a low pick, we trade that low pick for mid pick in 2020 and for 2021 draft capitol bc we have Rosen. Rosen plays 2020, does bad or good, if bad, then we get trevor, who is better than all the 2020 QBs.

I hope you're right - that would be masterful.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Last I heard was that quarterback was the most important position on the field. That a good team does everything to make sure they have the quarterback.

Now the Dolphins do something aggressive to get a quarterback to see if they can get a special one, they are doing it wrong.

Aggressive? They waited for "value".

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

This is a Seahawk move. Carroll would have made this move if he did not have Russell Wilson.

If the pats would have done this the entire NFL would have been saying how smart they were that they managed to outsmart the entire NFL abd this is why the pats are champions.

Miami makes the deal and half the community thinks it’s a bad move. LOL this was a HUGE steal and I’m excited to see if he can become a franchise QB with Miami!!!

"Rock Sexton wrote:

Aggressive? They waited for "value".

They took a risk and waited them out hoping no other team would outbid them at the last second. They played their hand perfectly and should be commended for getting him and an additional pick in next years draft!

"Dorfdad wrote:

If the pats would have done this the entire NFL would have been saying how smart they were that they managed to outsmart the entire NFL abd this is why the pats are champions.

Miami makes the deal and half the community thinks it’s a bad move. LOL this was a HUGE steal and I’m excited to see if he can become a franchise QB with Miami!!!

The thing is, if he develops then it was the steal of the century in the NFL. I mean literally....a top 10 caliber player has never been traded after one season at any position. Even if he turns out to be an average NFL QB and the bridge we need for the next couple of seasons, it's a massive steal for the Fins.

Now, what if he's dog-poo? It doesn't matter since we're paying him less than the average NFL 3rd string QB. He costs us $2M a season and we have to wait an extra year to use our 2nd rounder. Whoop-dee-doo. We got a potential franchise QB for free and there's really nothing else to talk about...it was a great trade whether he's awesome in a few seasons or completely stinks.

The best news of all? We have him guaranteed for three seasons...which is plenty of time to know what we have. It was a brilliant move by Miami and they mitigated the costs with that earlier 2nd round trade. We ripped off two teams in that round and I can't imagine how anyone could complain about that.

"Dorfdad wrote:

If the pats would have done this the entire NFL would have been saying how smart they were that they managed to outsmart the entire NFL abd this is why the pats are champions.

Miami makes the deal and half the community thinks it’s a bad move. LOL this was a HUGE steal and I’m excited to see if he can become a franchise QB with Miami!!!

Bill Bellichick can shit his pants and the NFL will convince themselves it's a genius strategy followed by Matt Patricia angrily shitting his pants the next week.

I still don't really like the move myself, but I get why people do, especially national types.

"texanphinatic wrote:

Bill Bellichick can **** his pants and the NFL will convince themselves it's a genius strategy followed by Matt Patricia angrily ****ting his pants the next week.

I still don't really like the move myself, but I get why people do, especially national types.

Why not, what would you have preferred happen?

So the Patriots really were in on Josh Rosen, per Barry Jackson:
https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article229789499.html

▪ An NFL official in contact with the Cardinals front office AFTER the trade told me Arizona indicated there was interest from other teams besides Miami, with New England among those exploring a Rosen trade as a potential backup to Tom Brady. (The Patriots eventually drafted Auburn’s Jarrett Stidham after Rosen was traded.)

The idea that the Dolphins could have gotten Rosen for a 4th or whatever they offered the Cardinals was an absurd one. Below a certain price point and you're going to have teams like the Patriots, Chargers, etc. jumping in. Hell, you just saw the Saints trade a 3rd for Teddy Bridgewater.

If anything, the Dolphins almost certainly were lucky- the timing, and general composition of the league right now meant that they really weren't out there competing directly with teams who had immediate needs- by the time the Cardinals had actually secured their guy, pretty much all of the immediate need teams were able to get a guy.

"jdallen1222 wrote:

Why not, what would you have preferred happen?

Not taken Rosen with that pick. Offer a 4th. If it's as absurd as DP suggests above, so be it and we move on with the plan we were executing.

I get it, most people disagree and think it was shrewd or whatever, that's fine. And shit, if it works then all the better. I just didn't like it myself.

"texanphinatic wrote:

Not taken Rosen with that pick. Offer a 4th. If it's as absurd as DP suggests above, so be it and we move on with the plan we were executing.

I get it, most people disagree and think it was shrewd or whatever, that's fine. And ****, if it works then all the better. I just didn't like it myself.

Absurd you're not going to get a top franchise QB who's 22 years of age for 6 million over the next three year with a 4th rounder. I'm sure the Dolphins tried to go lower rounds but at that point, if I was the Cardinals I would have walked away. Miami did what they needed to do and I'm happy a clam.

If Miami is going to go the Patriots route with a team Rosen is a damn good fit. He's a true pocket passer with a great arm. Both teams needed this deal and it was a fair trade IMHO. Especially if we can keep him from going to NE as well. Brady is about out of gas and I don't want another Indy type situation where they went from 100 years of Manning right into another Franchise QB in Andrew Luck without suffering as we did! Let them look for a QB for 10-12 years.

"texanphinatic wrote:

Not taken Rosen with that pick. Offer a 4th. If it's as absurd as DP suggests above, so be it and we move on with the plan we were executing.

I get it, most people disagree and think it was shrewd or whatever, that's fine. And ****, if it works then all the better. I just didn't like it myself.

I mean what player was available that you wanted at the picks either before or after the saints trade? Im sure you didnt mean that they forfeit the pick and take no one instead of Rosen. What was the alternative?

At this point, it's a low risk, high reward move. If he plays lights out? Sweet. We get a steal and probably use that first pick somewhere else. If not, we draft his replacement. His contract is not even a large one.

Interesting OLine ratings for 2018 from PFF.

https://t.co/Z9smOe2gaH

off topic - I can't help it but when I look at Rosen I see the actor who plays the hilarious douchy character "Todd" on Wrecked. Which was frickin canceled a few days ago btw.

With the people saying we should have offered the cards a fourth or fifth round pick for Rosen. Remember we did have a GM who kept lowballing people on offers - Jeff Ireland - and we know how that worked out. The NFL is not like a carnival. The people you are dealing with aren’t rubes who you’ll never see again. You need a reservoir of good will when you’re doing repeat deals. If we’d stuck to the idea of using our leverage to screw the Cards down, well there’s not so many teams willing to spend a 2nd round pick on a potential starter, but there’s a lot of teams willing to spend a 3rd on a backup, and once you get into the 4th then that’s basically what the phins got for Tannehill. A whole bunch of teams would be willing to try their luck on Rosen as a backup at that price.

Treating the cards as if we were the only team interested and we’re doing them a favor by taking Rosen off their hands is exactly what Jeff Ireland would do.

I really don’t see Rosen lasting untraded all the way through the third round. But if it did happen then there’s a whole bunch of teams who’d willingly trade up ahead of the phins to get Rosen for a 4th. As the price lowers the number of people interested increases.

Best course of action is to make the reasonable deal. It sends the signal that if other teams have a reasonable trade that they can pick up the phone and call Grier. Trading back from 48 to 62 then trading 62 for Rosen also send a message that Grier isn’t a soft touch.

I remain unsold on Rosen. But in terms of negotiations Grier did a very good job. He got what he wanted, he didn’t overpay and he sent a message to the league that he is no Tannenbaum.