Josh Rosen Isn't the Future

I emphatically disagree.
Rosen should be seen as a rookie - still learning to read defenses for the first time in his career.
His physical and intellectual tools are unquestionable at the elite level and why he was a Top-10 draft.
Rosen has stated Fitzy is the best mentor he's ever had in football.
Logically, with those draft choices, the Dolphins cam begin building around Rosen.
It's not rocket science...

"freeperjim wrote:

I emphatically disagree.
Rosen should be seen as a rookie - still learning to read defenses for the first time in his career.
His physical and intellectual tools are unquestionable at the elite level and why he was a Top-10 draft.
Rosen has stated Fitzy is the best mentor he's ever had in football.
Logically, with those draft choices, the Dolphins cam begin building around Rosen.
It's not rocket science...

How can you possibly think a quarterback you have on the roster is who you're going to go with long-term, and then not start him and trade the very high-quality left tackle who would protect his blind side for the next 10 years?

The draft choices will be used, if need be, to trade up and get a quarterback at the top of the first round.

We can build around him for 2020 Season, if it doesn't pan out we draft Martin Lawrence

"The Guy wrote:

How can you possibly think a quarterback you have on the roster is who you're going to go with long-term, and then not start him and trade the very high-quality left tackle who would protect his blind side for the next 10 years?

The draft choices will be used, if need be, to trade up and get a quarterback at the top of the first round.

You’re also assuming that Tunsil resigns with the Dolphins. The next 10 years is a streach in today’s nfl.

All of this. I think they made up their mind on him already, he will have to absolutely blow up (think, at least Pro Bowl quality) in order to even remotely considering passing on QB in 2020. IMO they made the move with backing up or future trade value in mind.

The fact that our current coaches don't seem inclined to play him or build around him doesn't make him less of a prospect. They can be wrong.

Please stop telling other people how we should be thinking, or insinuate that we lack intelligence if we disagree with you. Its low class.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

Please stop telling other people how we should be thinking, or insinuate that we lack intelligence if we disagree with you. Its low class.

Where is any of that happening?

"The Guy wrote:

The writing is on the wall folks. When you start Fitzpatrick and make major personnel moves that make the team worse in the short run so it can be better in the long run, you can't possibly think Josh Rosen is your quarterback of the future.

Your quote, right here.

I do, very much, believe that Rosen is the Dolphins QB of the long term future, if given a fair chance.

"If you want peace, prepare for war."

Miami loading up on draft picks here, even at the expense of a likely franchise LT, means that they're going all in on going all out in 2020 and possibly 2021. That's likely better than going 80% and finding out that you can't get done what you want because a lack of ammo.

If Rosen were dead weight he'd be gone, I expect. As far as I can tell, it looks like the staff aren't convinced he's the guy yet, but are of course open to the possibility down the line. Regardless, they're preparing for war - preparing to be ready to take a top QB if need be, or else, load up around Rosen if something happens this year - but they're not counting on that.

My best guess is that they're looking at Tua, if he's available this year, and/or Lawrence next year. If it's 2021 then expect even more moves made to gain draft picks. It looks to me like they're trying to lock down their key move(s) and then figure the rest out as they go. So much so that they'd rather have the franchise QB without an LT than miss out on that QB to retain the tackle.

It certainly doesn't look like they believe in Rosen at this point.

As for Rosen getting a fair chance, he'll get one. He's been getting one in camp. He needs to step it up and remove any doubt - and if we take Flores at his word, that means in communication, leadership, attitude, etc. He needs to prove himself the complete package, because if Miami will cut proven talent like Tunsil in order to get the right QB, they have no reason to keep a QB who can't prove himself.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

Your quote, right here.

I do, very much, believe that Rosen is the Dolphins QB of the long term future, if given a fair chance.

What I meant there is that I believe that’s what the Dolphins are thinking, that they can’t possibly view him that way.

"Galant wrote:

"If you want peace, prepare for war."

Miami loading up on draft picks here, even at the expense of a likely franchise LT, means that they're going all in on going all out in 2020 and possibly 2021. That's likely better than going 80% and finding out that you can't get done what you want because a lack of ammo.

If Rosen were dead weight he'd be gone, I expect. As far as I can tell, it looks like the staff aren't convinced he's the guy yet, but are of course open to the possibility down the line. Regardless, they're preparing for war - preparing to be ready to take a top QB if need be, or else, load up around Rosen if something happens this year - but they're not counting on that.

My best guess is that they're looking at Tua, if he's available this year, and/or Lawrence next year. If it's 2021 then expect even more moves made to gain draft picks. It looks to me like they're trying to lock down their key move(s) and then figure the rest out as they go. So much so that they'd rather have the franchise QB without an LT than miss out on that QB to retain the tackle.

It certainly doesn't look like they believe in Rosen at this point.

As for Rosen getting a fair chance, he'll get one. He's been getting one in camp. He needs to step it up and remove any doubt - and if we take Flores at his word, that means in communication, leadership, attitude, etc. He needs to prove himself the complete package, because if Miami will cut proven talent like Tunsil in order to get the right QB, they have no reason to keep a QB who can't prove himself.

The thing about keeping or ditching Rosen is that it’s actually cost-effective to keep him as a backup under his current contract.

"The Guy wrote:

What I meant there is that I believe that’s what the Dolphins are thinking, that they can’t possibly view him that way.

Well, then that's totally fair, phrased that way. Any one of us can believe anything, which is fine. And we can all have our own ideas about what the team is planning.

My biggest problem is when people start telling others that their personal opinions are wrong, or worse unnaceptable. Its a big pet peeve of mine.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

Well, then that's totally fair, phrased that way. Any one of us can believe anything, which is fine. And we can all have our own ideas about what the team is planning.

My biggest problem is when people start telling others that their personal opinions are wrong, or worse unnaceptable. Its a big pet peeve of mine.

My pet peeve is when people don’t trim their dogs nails. Then they jump on you and scratch you.

Bro, nobody needs to make any decisions right now.

In the immortal words of Aaron Rodgers, "R-E-L-A-X."

There will be time to evaluate Rosen, and it is at the end of the season.

"The Guy wrote:

The writing is on the wall folks.

When you start Fitzpatrick and make major personnel moves that make the team worse in the short run so it can be better in the long run, you can't possibly think Josh Rosen is your quarterback of the future. If he were your quarterback of the future, there would be far more of a win-now mentality, and players like Laremy Tunsil wouldn't be traded.

Based on the moves its making, I think the team has seen enough of him to know it has to look elsewhere.

I also don't think Rosen is our franchise QB, but I don't think our recent moves had anything to do with Rosen's play in preseason.

First of all, I don't think any HC in the NFL would really make such a momentous decision based on preseason alone. You have to see how the guy plays in regular season games before you know whether he's the real deal or not. I mean.. look no further than guys like Tom Brady or Kurt Warner who didn't beat their incumbents out in training camp to see that you need regular season games to evaluate.

Secondly, I don't think the Rosen move was a 1-year thing from the coach's point of view. From Rosen's perspective it should be thought of as a 1-year tryout because if we draft a QB high in 2020 the chances Rosen unseats him afterwards is really low. But from a coach's point of view I don't think they mind having Rosen sit and learn, using him as the backup plan in case the 2020 draft pick doesn't pan out. We already saw "trial by fire" with Rosen last year and it didn't work out, and if Flores is smart he'll take that into account.

Finally, there's little in terms of "win now" we can do anyway. The season is about to start and our OL was bad even with Tunsil. Vegas had us at 4.5 wins (worst in the NFL.. 2nd worst is Arizona with Kyler Murray lol at 5.5) before the trade. After the trade? Still at 4.5 but the moneyline for "under" is at -145 now so the odds of under are higher:
https://www.sportsbook.ag/sbk/sportsbook4/nfl-betting/season-wins.sbk

Point is, Vegas thought we were really bad anyway and this trade didn't move the needle much.

"The Guy wrote:

How can you possibly think a quarterback you have on the roster is who you're going to go with long-term, and then not start him and trade the very high-quality left tackle who would protect his blind side for the next 10 years?

The draft choices will be used, if need be, to trade up and get a quarterback at the top of the first round.

I agree with cBrad- this is not a signal to thoughts on Rosen at all. We would have traded Howard for two firsts and a second as well; we would have traded any player for that. When someone is willing to overpay by that much, you just can't say no because it's a detriment to your team. This one trade advanced our rebuild a full season whether Rosen is the guy or not.

Personally I hate it because I love Tunsil that much, but I would have taken the trade without a 2nd thought.

Plus, Preston Williams was going to take someone's place in the starting lineup anyway- would it be Parker, Wilson/Grant or Stills? Parker is too valuable with his big catch radius and you always want Wilson or Grant on the field. That left Stills with the short stick and I don't think it's about his talent- Williams is simply more dynamic in basically every possible way.

Does this trade hurt Rosen? Maybe short term, yeah...which makes all the more sense NOT TO start him. Let Fitz take the beating until someone halfway gets up to speed at LT. I'm good with that....in fact, I'm GREAT with that. If anything, I think it signals that this team values Rosen and wants to let him grow organically without getting killed.

One last thing- you asked what we do with all those picks if it's not for Tua- are you kidding? We could have one of the best DL's in the league next season OR grab the best corner in the draft and the top RB. There's unlimited possibilities when you're loaded like this and it's exactly how the Pats built a championship long-term contender. We don't need the best LT....we need a really good one and another really good player somewhere else. Tunsil got us 3 starters for 2021 and the math is very simple- 3 > 1

Again, I HATE losing Tunsil....not saying that it was an easy call at all. But I love this trade because it gives us the real vision...8 picks in the first two rounds of 2020 and 2021. That's likely 7 or 8 starters and we're going to get really freaking stacked really quick! This year will stink but suddenly I'm okay with it- 0 and 16 or 7 and 9 makes no difference at all anymore.

We're clearly playing for a Super Bowl run in 2021.

I am really excited at the thought of Rosen throwing the ball to the combo of Parker and Williams on a regular basis, plus the TEs. I want that consistent, quick intermediate passing game all day long. After they figure out who's playing LT while getting 14 killed in the process, maybe we'll see.

IMO Rosen was always a developmental prospect. He has arm talent, but he's also had consistency issues. He is often late on his reads and his accuracy is below what you tend to see from elite prospects. I had him rated as a second round pick in that draft, which is how I tend to value QB prospects that have potential but will need time to develop. I think AZ was disappointed by how much development he clearly needed and had the opportunity to draft a prospect they saw as superior. I think the Dolphins see Rosen as a developmental prospect as well. This was never about having one year to evaluate and Rosen and then decide whether or not to draft a QB high. It was always about getting multiple bites at the apple. Rosen was one bite and whomever they draft was going to be another bite.

My hope as to how this plays out is that Fitz can survive as long as possible to give Rosen as much time to learn as he can. He is clearly not ready. Whether he's better than Fitz right now is irrelevant. What matters is giving Rosen the best chance to succeed. Hopefully Rosen learns enough (and Fitz survives enough) to get some snaps after the bye. Then we get the guy we want in the draft and let him learn while Rosen starts. At that point a confident and comfortable Rosen performs well enough to either be the guy, garner a high pick from another QB needy team or at least be a good back-up for us. Personally, I see his ceiling as a low level starter and I expect that there will be at least four superior prospects in this draft, but who knows?

It's hard to know what the Dolphins are thinking here. Was the Tunsil deal one the Dolphins couldn't pass up, or is it we have seen enough of Rosen to realize we need to go shopping next year? I think it's a little of both. Teams always say it. Every guy is available for the right price. The Texans paid the price, and they got Tunsil and Stills. As for Rosen, does this mean his opportunity is over? Maybe, maybe not. It's up to him. Football is a production business. Every player should be looking over their shoulder because teams are always looking to replace them with younger cheaper talent. When he gets his chance, he needs to seize the day and produce at a high level and don't make it easy on them. If he does then maybe we have our franchise QB, if he doesn't, then he's another resource we may keep as a backup or trade away for a pick. It's really up to him on how we proceed.

"cbrad wrote:

I also don't think Rosen is our franchise QB, but I don't think our recent moves had anything to do with Rosen's play in preseason.

First of all, I don't think any HC in the NFL would really make such a momentous decision based on preseason alone. You have to see how the guy plays in regular season games before you know whether he's the real deal or not. I mean.. look no further than guys like Tom Brady or Kurt Warner who didn't beat their incumbents out in training camp to see that you need regular season games to evaluate.

Secondly, I don't think the Rosen move was a 1-year thing from the coach's point of view. From Rosen's perspective it should be thought of as a 1-year tryout because if we draft a QB high in 2020 the chances Rosen unseats him afterwards is really low. But from a coach's point of view I don't think they mind having Rosen sit and learn, using him as the backup plan in case the 2020 draft pick doesn't pan out. We already saw "trial by fire" with Rosen last year and it didn't work out, and if Flores is smart he'll take that into account.

Finally, there's little in terms of "win now" we can do anyway. The season is about to start and our OL was bad even with Tunsil. Vegas had us at 4.5 wins (worst in the NFL.. 2nd worst is Arizona with Kyler Murray lol at 5.5) before the trade. After the trade? Still at 4.5 but the moneyline for "under" is at -145 now so the odds of under are higher:
https://www.sportsbook.ag/sbk/sportsbook4/nfl-betting/season-wins.sbk

Point is, Vegas thought we were really bad anyway and this trade didn't move the needle much.

I would agree with that if Rosen were starting. Again, I don't think the team can possibly think it has the elite quarterback it wants when that quarterback is neither starting nor inspiring the win-now (or win-sooner-than-later) mentality that would preclude this trade.

We're sitting you on the bench and trading away your young, premier left tackle and (arguably) best wide receiver, yet you are our quarterback of the future? Doesn't compute.

I should make a qualification here.

There are three ways the team can view Rosen at the present time: 1) that he is its QB of the future, 2) that he is not its QB of the future, and 3) that it doesn't yet know either way.

My point here is that it can't possibly be number one at present. The team may still not know whether Rosen will be its QB of the future until some point in the future, but right now the team can't possibly think he's its QB of the future. They have to believe they have enough information about him to make that judgment, given his current backup status and this trade.

I should've titled the thread "Josh Rosen Isn't the Future Right Now."

"The Guy wrote:

I should make a qualification here.

There are three ways the team can view Rosen at the present time: 1) that he is its QB of the future, 2) that he is not its QB of the future, and 3) that it doesn't yet know either way.

My point here is that it can't possibly be number one at present. The team may still not know whether Rosen will be its QB of the future until some point in the future, but right now the team can't possibly think he's its QB of the future. They have to believe they have enough information about him to make that judgment, given his current backup status and this trade.

I should've titled the thread "Josh Rosen Isn't the Future Right Now."

Do you think that another team with a 22 year old QB drafted high in the first round could view their guy as the future? Or should they feel the same way?

Should the Jets, Bills, Ravens, Cardinals, ect all be uncertain? If so, then its a fair point. But if its just the Dolphins, I don't see why.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

Do you think that another team with a 22 year old QB drafted high in the first round could view their guy as the future? Or should they feel the same way?

Should the Jets, Bills, Ravens, Cardinals, ect all be uncertain? If so, then its a fair point. But if its just the Dolphins, I don't see why.

Good question. I think the Chiefs are sold on Mahomes, the Texans are sold on Watson, the Rams are sold on Goff, and the Browns are sold on Mayfield, for example. I think those teams are ready to proceed forward without any interest in allocating resources toward the acquisition of a quarterback.

Teams like the Jets, Bills, Titans, and Bears I believe are uncertain. They're working with highly-drafted QBs and hoping for the best, but like the Cardinals last season with Rosen, they are subject to jettisoning them if they have the ability to draft one they believe will play at an elite level.

"freeperjim wrote:

I emphatically disagree.
Rosen should be seen as a rookie - still learning to read defenses for the first time in his career.
His physical and intellectual tools are unquestionable at the elite level and why he was a Top-10 draft.
Rosen has stated Fitzy is the best mentor he's ever had in football.
Logically, with those draft choices, the Dolphins cam begin building around Rosen.
It's not rocket science...

Not to mention the fact that Rosen was drafted by that train wreck of a team in the Cardinals. He was never going to be a success in Phoenix.

I’m fairly optimistic about our team’s future. I already see changes in the overall attitude in the staff as well as the players. With the trade of Tunsil and Stills, in exchange for a stockpile of draft picks, you’re already seeing the New England blueprint that has made the Patriots the pinnacle of perineal success.

Personally I feel the trade for Rosen was a maneuver to get a young franchise quarterback cheap but even if Rosen doesn’t pan out, there are draft picks that’ll weigh heavy on his, or any other player’s minds for that matter...do your job or you can be replaced.