Jefferson's Freudian Slip.
16 replies
Frumundah FinnaticNew MemberOPJefferson is believed to have first written the word "subjects" to describe the American population, and then replaced it with the term "citizens," which appears throughout the historic document. Even in the midst of declaring the United States' independence from Britain, Jefferson may not have fully escaped the mindset of a monarchy.
MonstBlitz;2232016 wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if he is retained. Jeff Ireland is the nightmare that won't end. The **** stain you cannot flush. The Herpes for which there is no cure.
BigDogsHuntNew Memberthat's what drafts are for......
BDH -
"To me, there are three things we all should do every day of our lives. Number one is laugh. You should laugh every day. Number two is think. You should spend some time in thought. And Number three is, you should have your emotions moved to tears, could be happiness or joy.
"If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special."
Jimmy V. (Mar '93)
unluckylucianoNew MemberScandal in the whitehouse graveyard, day one.
thanks to VO for the sick ass sigs. 
Charlie: If you're not as educated or as informed what you do is you start your own party and you yell the loudest.
Frumundah FinnaticNew Member"BigDogsHunt wrote:
that's what drafts are for......
Duh.
MonstBlitz;2232016 wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if he is retained. Jeff Ireland is the nightmare that won't end. The **** stain you cannot flush. The Herpes for which there is no cure.
anlgpNew MemberJefferson was way way ahead of his time.
Are we really citizens of our government, or are we subjects?
"A man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus, suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering great or little. Therefore, the "size" of human suffering is absolutely relative." - Viktor Frankl
gafinfansubscriber"anlgp wrote:
Jefferson was way way ahead of his time.
Are we really citizens of our government, or are we subjects?
In Jefferson's United States we were neither, of course, the 14th changed all of that so I guess we are subjects once again.
This is the only thing I’ve learned: There’s only us. There’s no them. Despots and authoritarians need to make a “them” to have a straw man whom you are against. If you need to make an enemy of “them,” you’ve lost the spirit of us. - Ken Burns of PBS
Frumundah FinnaticNew Member"gafinfan wrote:
In Jefferson's United States we were neither, of course, the 14th changed all of that so I guess we are subjects once again.
How was the 14th a bad thing?
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws
MonstBlitz;2232016 wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if he is retained. Jeff Ireland is the nightmare that won't end. The **** stain you cannot flush. The Herpes for which there is no cure.
unluckylucianoNew Member"Frumundah Finnatic wrote:
How was the 14th a bad thing?
I would assume its a states rights v federal rights issue.
thanks to VO for the sick ass sigs.
Charlie: If you're not as educated or as informed what you do is you start your own party and you yell the loudest.
Frumundah FinnaticNew MemberI'm pretty sure its the government's job to define who is a citizen or not.
MonstBlitz;2232016 wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if he is retained. Jeff Ireland is the nightmare that won't end. The **** stain you cannot flush. The Herpes for which there is no cure.
anlgpNew Member"Frumundah Finnatic wrote:
I'm pretty sure its the government's job to define who is a citizen or not.
It is the federal government, which leaves the state out.
"A man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus, suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering great or little. Therefore, the "size" of human suffering is absolutely relative." - Viktor Frankl
FinSaneforum_veteran"Frumundah Finnatic wrote:
I'm pretty sure its the government's job to define who is a citizen or not.
The 14th Amendment was intended to grant blacks equal citizenship as whites once slavery was abolished, however this is not what happened. Instead, the 14th amendment was instead interpreted by the courts to mean that businesses are lead by people and thus should be recognized legally as having the same rights as human citizens. The 14th amendment also instead was interpreted by southern states as giving the states the right to segregate society so blacks legally were citizens, under federal law, but did not have the same legal protections and recognitions as whites under state law, because back then the states were much so more independent of the federal government than today. Thus, the 14th amendment was then construed to make blacks into mere "subjects" rather than actual citizens, and corporations were granted more rights than the human citizens the amendment was written and passed for.
unluckylucianoNew Member"FinSane wrote:
The 14th Amendment was intended to grant blacks equal citizenship as whites once slavery was abolished, however this is not what happened. Instead, the 14th amendment was instead interpreted by the courts to mean that businesses are lead by people and thus should be recognized legally as having the same rights as human citizens. The 14th amendment also instead was interpreted by southern states as giving the states the right to segregate society so blacks legally were citizens, under federal law, but did not have the same legal protections and recognitions as whites under state law, because back then the states were much so more independent of the federal government than today. Thus, the 14th amendment was then construed to make blacks into mere "subjects" rather than actual citizens, and corporations were granted more rights than the human citizens the amendment was written and passed for.
All rants aside it was used in the civil rights movement as well I believe to reign in Mississippi.
thanks to VO for the sick ass sigs.
Charlie: If you're not as educated or as informed what you do is you start your own party and you yell the loudest.
FinSaneforum_veteran"unluckyluciano wrote:
All rants aside it was used in the civil rights movement as well I believe to reign in Mississippi.
...that too.
gafinfansubscriber"Frumundah Finnatic wrote:
How was the 14th a bad thing?
"Frumundah Finnatic wrote:
I'm pretty sure its the government's job to define who is a citizen or not.
"FinSane wrote:
The 14th Amendment was intended to grant blacks equal citizenship as whites once slavery was abolished, however this is not what happened. Instead, the 14th amendment was instead interpreted by the courts to mean that businesses are lead by people and thus should be recognized legally as having the same rights as human citizens. The 14th amendment also instead was interpreted by southern states as giving the states the right to segregate society so blacks legally were citizens, under federal law, but did not have the same legal protections and recognitions as whites under state law, because back then the states were much so more independent of the federal government than today. Thus, the 14th amendment was then construed to make blacks into mere "subjects" rather than actual citizens, and corporations were granted more rights than the human citizens the amendment was written and passed for.
Being this is the history forum I will respectfully leave all rants aside (for POFO)
In reply:
1. I didn't state if good or bad only change, which it did.
2. I want to be a citizen (and am) of this country not it's government thus I hold the constitution to a far greater loyalty.
3. The 14th has been used for both good and bad purposes, as has the rest of our Constitution, by the clowns in the federal government imvho.
This is the only thing I’ve learned: There’s only us. There’s no them. Despots and authoritarians need to make a “them” to have a straw man whom you are against. If you need to make an enemy of “them,” you’ve lost the spirit of us. - Ken Burns of PBS
Frumundah FinnaticNew MemberMy apologies then if I misinterpreated what you were trying to say.
MonstBlitz;2232016 wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if he is retained. Jeff Ireland is the nightmare that won't end. The **** stain you cannot flush. The Herpes for which there is no cure.
charlestonphanNew Memberthere was some significant controversy about how the 14th was ratified.
R.I.P. Scott Knight; Dec. 1968 - Dec. 2007
anlgpNew MemberAlso wanted to say it's the only word that he really changed (we went over this in my history class) and it was just so ingrained in the people's brains at the time that they were "subjects" because they were coming from a monarchy type government, so jefferson thought "absolutely not" and changed it to "citizens".
"A man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus, suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering great or little. Therefore, the "size" of human suffering is absolutely relative." - Viktor Frankl