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Jarvis Jones

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Lee2000, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I posted this on a couple of other threads, but what the heck. This will impact the draft:

    Georgia OLB Jarvis Jones completed an official forty time of 4.92 seconds during the school's pro day.
    Some will point to this time as a reason for Jones "falling", but we believe this speed shows up on tape. Jones wins with snap anticipation and a great motor to work around the edge, but we question if he might be limited to that role early in his career due to a lack of a counter move. Jones also completed 20 bench press reps and a 9 foot, 3 inch broad jump, which would've tied for the worst among Combine participants. There is some buzz that Jones tweak a hamstring on his first run, but he isn't the athlete some made him out to be.

    rotoworld.com is the source; just posted under NFL draft section; Seth Emerson on Twitter.
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Could you provide a link and perhaps name the source when you do stuff like this?

    Thanks.
     
  3. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just added source. (rotoworld.com under nfl draft; Seth Emerson on Twitter) Sorry.
     
  4. Perfectville_USA

    Perfectville_USA Mr Perfect

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    That and the spine issue, will push him down in the draft. Shocked his numbers where so bad... yikes
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I've always thought he'll be available when Miami picks at 12.

    But whether he falls a lot farther than that, tough to say. Teams will be very mixed on the spine.

    The pro day stuff, not a big deal. Teams have known about this for a long time.
     
  6. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    Good, he'll be available at 12
     
  7. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Can he play DE in a 4-3 is my question. Forget about olb in this defense.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know why you're saying forget OLB. The Dolphins won't. They'll look at him to play Koa Misi's role in the base defense and then come down to the right side opposite Cam Wake in nickel packages and rush the passer either with his hand on the ground or (more likely) off the ground.
     
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  9. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    To be fair, he had hamstring issues today and was struggling in both forty yard dashes. He certainly plays significantly faster than his time off the edge. What's hilarious is all the Internet warriors and twitter GM's backtracking over Jones and Moore and patting themselves on the back about how clever they are. I think what I respect about Chris, Alen, Rich and Keith are that if we make a decision on a guy, we stick to it through thick and thin. Hello to Jake along at RT and Colt Brennan.
     
  10. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    It will be interesting to see what this does to Jones' draft spot. I'd have expected him to be more of a 4.75 guy. Maybe the hamstring was the problem. There have been some edge rushers who ran poor 40 times (4.8-4.9 range) that have still been picked pretty high -- Terrell Suggs and Marco Coleman come to mind. Suggs has certainly been successful, as has Dumervil, who wasn't picked so high but also ran in that range. Coleman had a decent career, but pretty disappointing considering his draft position. But Jones is a less physical, more finesse pass rusher than those other guys. He does get a great jump off the snap and long speed isn't very important for a pass rusher, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see at least some teams pretty scared off by it, especially in a draft with several other promising edge rush prospects.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I wonder if Colt Brennan works at the same convenience store with Brian Hartline.
     
  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If anything, I think that Jones not being able to play 4-3 OLB might be a disqualifying factor for him. The best fit is a guy who can play 4-3 OLB in the base formation and play an edge rusher in the Nickel formation. If Jones can't act like a 4-3 OLB to their satisfaction, he's a Nickel package only guy and that's probably a negative.
     
  13. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Had we not signed Wheeler and Ellerbe, I would absolutely take Jones at 12. and Still may. But with the way of the NFL now and a lot of spread offenses, 3 really good linebackers aren't a must IMO. Jones is an elite talent, I don't care what his pro day numbers were. If his back is fine hes a top 5 guy IMO.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Getting Jones would not be about getting a 3rd really good linebacker. It would be about getting a guy who can play 1000 snaps a year, making an impact as a linebacker in base packages, and making an impact as a pass rusher in nickel packages (which now virtually outnumber base packages in the NFL).
     
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  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree, but here is the problem with our current roster set up. We have to backers NOW that are good at rushing the passer. Wheeler is pretty good in coverage, while Ellerbe isn't. So if we draft Jones, did we pay all that money to Ellerbe to be a 2 down backer? I just don't see them doing that. I agree with you about Jones. Im in love with his game and how he plays it.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't think you're really following.

    All three guys would be 1000 snap per year guys. There wouldn't be a 2-down guy among them. Wheeler and Ellerbe were ALWAYS destined to be real linebackers (coverage) in nickel packages. Just because they're decent blitzers doesn't mean they're pass rushers. They're not. They never have been and never will be. They'll blitz as often as Dansby and Burnett did (which was a lot, compared with other schemes) but the Dolphins are hoping they'll have better results.
     
  17. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I understand what your saying. Unless we feel like with our scheme we are pretty much running a 3-4(which a case could be made for), I am just not sure how your going to be able to get all those snaps in todays NFL. How many snaps did Misi play last season?

    Like I said in my original post though, I still may select him. It depends on what we do with the rest of free agency. We have major holes at CB and OL still. But if hes at 12, hes hard to pass up even with those holes. But if we shore those up Im absolutely jumping at him.
     
  18. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Cinncy's D has never really put great rusher at the SLB spot. Most of the time it's been a guy like Ellerbe so that should be a clue as to what their intentions are. For base packages they'll go get a thumper for the middle but Wheeler and Ellerbe most likely are the OLBs. The fact that they're looking at Osi for presumably the nickel packages behind the run stopper Vernon should give you a clue as to their intentions with the pick. I don't think it's a pass rusher nor is it a DT. I doubt it's Tavon Austin. The position they've ignored almost completely?

    CB
     
  19. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He sweeps the floor.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm somehow not making myself very clear. For that I apologize.

    BASE PACKAGE - 50%
    RCB: Nolan Carroll
    RS: Chris Clemons
    RLB: Jarvis Jones
    RDE: Jared Odrick
    RDT: Randy Starks
    MLB: Dannell Ellerbe
    LDT: Paul Soliai
    LDE: Cameron Wake
    LLB: Phil Wheeler
    LS: Reshad Jones
    LCB: Richard Marshall

    NICKEL PACKAGE - 50%
    RCB: Nolan Carroll
    RS: Chris Clemons
    RDE: Jarvis Jones
    RLB: Dannell Ellerbe
    RDT: Jared Odrick
    LDT: Randy Starks
    LLB: Phil Wheeler
    LDE: Cameron Wake
    NCB: Dimitri Patterson
    LS: Reshad Jones
    LCB: Richard Marshall

    Does this make more sense?
     
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  21. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    You're correct. However I don't remember Cinncy ever putting that kind of SLB out there. Lawson and Howard were never exceptional rushers, Lawson was in fact terrible at it but he had great speed and could cover. Ellerbe matches that SLB role similar to an Ahmad Brooks, Wheeler looks like a WLB.
     
  22. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. And that would be great. Didnt think of it like that.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't agree that Lawson's been a terrible rusher.

    A little on the underrated side. Since he's been drafted, 582 pass rush snaps, 11 sacks, 18 hits, 38 pressures. Ranks #29 of 168 from the right side, #33 out of 160 on the left side.

    But I recognize I'm arguing specifics and not anyone's main point.

    Michael Johnson incidentally was very much used as a linebacker in the 4-3 by Cincinnati at one point. You'd have to have access to PFF's participation logs to see it, but it happened.
     
  24. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Do you believe this zone based nonsense or are we ignoring the obvious and the pick is Xavier Rhodes. We seem to ignore the obvious every single year and Ireland does it.

    Tannehill(best ranked QB)
    Pouncey(best ranked C)
    Odrick (move Starks to NT was not obvious)
    Davis (best ranked CB)
    Long (best ranked LT)

    Are Dmitri Patterson and Richard Marshall zone corners?
     
  25. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I dont' think the zone stuff is nonsense. I do think their lack of interest in Johnson if he falls to 12 is nonsense.
     
  26. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Philbin was only around for one of the "best ranked" guys, Tannehill. I believe Coyle and Philbin are system guys and are looking for system players.
     
  27. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think system fit is "nonsense". I would say it is one of the things fans fail to understand the importance of.
     
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  28. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I own Jason Smith. Gotta admit that one. But yeah why not have some stones and just be, well, wrong or right. Not that big a deal really.
     
  29. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    That's not the point. The system fit is nonsense as in the system is exclusively zone CBs and Xavier Rhodes can't play zone. Teams mix coverages and Rhodes can play zone if he has to. I don't believe that Miami is exclusively a zone team, much of what they do depends on the personnel they have available.

    In fact if I'm not mistaken the Bengals were one of the classic bump and run teams a couple years ago and they prided themselves on their CBs being able to handle that.
     
  30. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    You got that right. Especially up front along either line, its very important.
     
  31. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, if you watch several games you see what they do with him, and how often he has his hand off the ground. Where they play him, both sides, line up in the A gap from time to time. Many things they tried to get Vernon to do, but he just wasn't ready as he didn't have the game experience.
     
  32. surferosa

    surferosa Balance and Vision

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    Would love him at 12 if we dont go WR.
     
  33. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    Truthfully, they haven't had to, nor have they ever really acquired that type of player. I think that was what there intention was with Dontay Moch, but due to injury and migraine issues, he's only played 1 game in two seasons.

    Last year, after they acquired Wallace Gilberry mid-season, they started getting creative with Michael Johnson, who plays the Cameron Wake role for Cincinnati. They went to more of a nickel/pass-rush package with 3 main linemen - Gilberry, Geno Atkins, and Carlos Dunlap. Johnson would play opposite Dunlap (for comparison's sake, Cincinnati's defense is a mirrored version of Miami's as Johnson plays almost always on the right side where as Wake is a left side guy) but sometimes he'd be up in a 2-point stance, sometimes he'd be down in a 3-point stance. But essentially, if Miami were to draft Jarvis Jones, I think CK's got the nail hit on the head as far as the front 7 as you'd have:

    5/6 technique DE - Odrick
    1 technique NT - Soliai
    3 technique DT - Starks
    Pass-rush DE - Wake
    Pass-rush LB - Jones
    MLB - Ellerbe
    LLB - Wheeler

    I think the comparison of Ellerbe to Ahmad Brooks is off-base. Brooks was pretty much a nickel DE during his brief tenure in Cincinnati. I think the 49ers have found his ideal spot play SOLB in the 3-4. I just don't see Ellerbe as being that type of guy who is big enough and strong enough to hold the point of attack, set the edge, keep contain, etc. He's a MLB for my $ in this defense.

    The issue with Jones would be what do you do with Misi? Presumably, you'd try and trade him, but what does he get you back? But, for whatever reason, whenever Ireland's talked about Misi, it's always "he's got to improve", "he's still getting better", "he's still developing" - for whatever that's worth.
     
  34. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    The fit for Jarvis Jones is correct. Josh Kaddu was their initial attempt to acquire that kind of player. It's interesting that they keep speaking with various FAs but not making a deal. It almost makes you think these guys won't sign until after the draft. That would mean Miami is looking heavily at nickel DE, SLB, CB, RT, and RG.
     
  35. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend Club Member

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    the next dimension
    For me, I didn't think an upgrade to this position would be one they would consider. But after seeing the overhaul of the rest of the linebacker group it opened my eyes to the possibility. A move like this would also fit in with Darlington's tweet about the draft plans. Also Misi missed two games last season and this off season the team has gone away from players who missed any time last year. This is why I also think Bess and Marshall's day could be up. Carpenter shouldn't be feeling safe as well. A $3million kicker who misses games and misses long field goals is not valuable in my eyes.
     
  36. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    As some one who has seen him destroy SEC offenses year after year I am glad to see him leaving the SEC.
    He may not have the measurables but he does have the insticts to disrupt plays and I would love to see him drafted by the Dolphins .However I fear Ireland will make decisions based on perceived need rather than on talent and he may consider LB a position already covered .Unless Ireland considers him to be a pash rusher I doubt he will draft him even if he is available.:cry:
     
  37. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To say Rhodes can not play zone is probably premature. I am sure he probably has the skills to do so. May not have been an exclusive zone team before, but I wonder in the future.
     
  38. surferosa

    surferosa Balance and Vision

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    Ive followed UGA football a lot over the last few years. It doesnt surprise me at all that Jones didnt time well. When he first joined UGA, the thought was that he was going to play MLB and not OLB given that his primary strengths were anticipation in space and not pure athleticism. I dont think anyone expected him to turn into a ferocious pass rusher even among the most optimistic of fans.

    The beauty of his game is that he DOESNT rely on athleticism to get the QB. His pass rushing skills can be traced to three primary traits 1) Angles and 2) Agility 3) Anticipation. Jarvis gets an incredible jump off the LOS and contorts his body with tremendous aglity to gain leverage against bigger OT's. If you ever watched his game film, hes able to lean into the OL without losing balance or explosiveness - sometimes it even seems like he uses the lineman's own weight to propel him to the QB. Sometimes he will be leaning in at a ridiculous 50%-60% angle which makes it very difficult for OT's to defend as they cant engulf/overpower him. He is the purest type of pass rusher out there and would reak havoc in our system. The leverage he plays with reminds me of Dumervil/Derrick Thomas/Bruce Irvin.

    Im still rooting for us to go WR in round one (Tavon or Coradelle), but if we dont, Im 100% in the Jarvis Jones camp. Wouldnt mind Ogletree either (whose a different type of player but may acutally turn out to be the better of the two UGA LB's).
     
  39. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    I'll claim Vernon Gholston. That was BAD. But I think I've learned a lot since then, and certainly you, alen, Boomer, CK, KB, rafael, etc. have all contributed to my knowledge. I'd love to see the site again next year if you guys have the time.
     
  40. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    ****ing Larry English!
     
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