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James doing better then we think?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by NJFINSFAN1, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/08/27/all-22-rookie-class

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I don't think anyone was saying he wasn't doing fine, but this is certainly exciting and encouraging.
     
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  3. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He's doing a fantastic job in pass protection. I'd say he's already confirming that he'll be fine in pass pro this season which is a big boon for Miami because you absolutely cannot just assume that is the case based on drafting a guy #19 overall. Teams drafted OTs last year #1 and #2 overall and got poor results. This year the Falcons draft Jake Matthews high then all the sudden he's being tossed around like a rag doll by a 7th round rookie from Marist College. It happens...a LOT. So for JaWuan James to already look game-ready in pass pro is a very nice development.

    Been pretty bad in run blocking, though.
     
  5. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    SI.com - The All-22 Rookies (Ju'Waun James)

    Link: HERE

    Nice read with snapshot photos highlighting examples of his blocking.



    **SORRY MODS. PLEASE MERGE.**
     
  6. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    he's no Jonathan Martin, that's for damn sure. but I'm still mad we didn't draft Seantrel, I mean seriously we couldn't take a flyer on him in the 7th? he's about to start for Buffalo...and the job wasn't handed to him like with Juwuan James.
     
  7. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    He has an issue with "finding" his man in space. His issue in run blocking is not with his initial engage. It is when he is asked to reach defenders. He can block you just fine if you are lined up directly in front of him, and don't have any lateral quickness.

    I don;t understand how he has this issue with how well he has pass blocked.
     
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  8. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Any analysis on how James looked at LT? I generally find it hard to truly focus on the offensive line as a play develops without rewinding for that specific person. He obviously didn't give up a hurry or sack which has to be good.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    6th would have been better. What is the point of Hazel?
     
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  10. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    That is my one huge gripe with our draft. Not enough for me to be bitter or disappointed, but I had Henderson pegged as a first round talent who would fall to the mid rounds. He lasted until the late rounds and I was really disappointed it wasnt us he fell to in the end.
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I've been pleased with his play, do consider the makeup of our offensive line though:

    RT=#1 pick 2014
    RG=Shelly Smith, mid/lower level FA
    C=Pouncey #1 pick/Satele lower level FA pretty much picked up off the scrap heap, tho he has done a damn good job
    LG=Ryan Colledge mid level FA
    LT=Top tier FA signing

    What I'm not seeing is rd 3-5 guys who play cheaply and were developed in house. Long term that model means..heavily invested in the offensive line in terms of resources like #1 picks and cap space and losing compensatory draft choices.

    I'm happy withe offensive lines performance save for McCoy mauling Thomas in Tampa, long term this is not a viable approach.
     
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  12. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    you got his first name completely wrong....Ja'Wuan
     
  13. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    WHERE IS JAH??!! need non caps
     
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  14. keithjackson

    keithjackson Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jeese, even with this article, there are ten posts in this thread and five of them are negative. SMH
     
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  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Odd take, to me the OL is clearly improved w/players with track records aside from James and he has stepped right in and played at a high level there is -0- reason to be negative about this upcoming season concerning the OL

    I'm glad they appear to be going with Veterans and James, now the OC and OL coach have something to work with unlike 2013.
     
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  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    paddy has a point. If Jake Long signed with us, we'd have 3 1st rounders invested in the OL, since 2008. That's 3 out of 7 1st round picks. That's a bit much ...

    I think having a good enough offensive line is ... good enough to win a Super Bowl. Some questionable olines have won recently. Spending 3 first round picks you'd want an elite line which is possible but ... probably unlikely.

    The Eagles had a great offensive line. Peters - UDFA. Evan Mathis 3rd rounder (hey former Dolphin). Kelce 6th rounder. Herremans 4th rounder. Lane Johnson a 4th overall pick.

    49ers have Staley (1st rounder), Iupati 1st rounder, 5th rounder, Boone UDFA, 1st rounder. So the 9ners have spent 3 first rounders on the line, but they're elite. Are we going to be? That's the question.
     
  17. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    blah blah blah hindsight blah blah pointless comment. I'd love for you to direct me to a post of yours that suggested Miami take James at 19, you know- to rationalize your snide attitude.

    If a team "reaches" for a player, it doesn't mean he can't turn out to be good, genius. Miami could've drafted Jason Taylor in the 2nd round of 1997. JT becoming a future HOF'er doesn't change the fact that it would've been a reach at the time as we were able to grab him in round 3 and pick up Sam Madison in the 2nd in the process. Many of us who thought JaWuan was a reach were actually big fans of his entering the draft. We were also big fans of Brandin Cooks, you know- the guy lighting it up in New Orleans. Just like the Madison/JT example, we wanted both players, Cooks first and then a trade up for James. Iknowright, how silly we look in hindsight for thinking that way. *rolleyes*. The ironic thing is, had Hickey done that, you'd still be jumping for joy over the victory.

    Some of you act as though Miami would've been left wit nothing in round 1 had we minimally gambled by passing on James and then failed to land him with our 2nd rounder. We would've been left with the game-changer Cooks who already looks the part of a future star. That possibility alone is enough to say, "Let's perform a draft coup by snagging Cooks here and then trading up our 2nd for James." Heck, even if we had to use next year's 2nd rounder to trade up our #50 pick, that's still a better opportunity cost than the #19 pick.


    What's hilarious about this all is- after Miami drafted James, GMJohnson & Co had the gall to mock and criticize others who thought Miami reached for James at 19 [rather than trading back w/ New Orleans or taking Cooks at 19 and trading up our 2nd for James] as if they were the ones who wanted James all along and it was us who were against him. This couldn't have been further from the truth as GM, KB & Co wanted NOTHING to do with the tackle Miami drafted. They were so against my and others' notion of drafting James that they basically suggested it'd be setting up Tannehill and the ground game for failure. If they had it their way, Miami would've either drafted Kouandjio or Moses at #19 or traded up for Zack Martin, Taylor Lewan, or Jake Matthews. I only mention GM here b/c I noticed he fistbumped your post.
     
  18. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    The problem I have with this theory is that there would have been no guarantee James would have lasted until the second round or even to a spot we would have wanted to trade up to. I believe there were reports post draft that there were teams picking right after us that wanted James as well, so it was smart for Hickey to get his man before it was too late.

    Also, Cooks may turn out to be a monster of a player, but WR is a position we have good depth at and OL was a disaster at the time as you know.
     
  19. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Well honesty, the reach thing is always a guess, we don't know exactly how high James was rated or if other teams would have picked him before us. We can guess, but I don't think we can know for sure. But I agree with phinsatonal that we cant just declare James a great pick in a vacuum, because you have to evaluate the talent available when we picked and all the possible options Anyway, good thing heis playing solid to good football, we'll need it, our schedule is full of good pass rushers Sorry for my English
     
  20. PerfectTeam

    PerfectTeam Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Eagles did trade a 1st, 4th and 6th round pick for him so you've got to add that to the equation in my opinion. That's a lot of investment in the OL.
     
  21. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I've been very pleased with James. I've watched him closely during these games and he's been very very good for a rook. Pass and run blocking.
     
  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    yes but we still could've traded back with New Orleans and gathered another 3rd rounder. Zona picked after us and had Deone Bucannon targeted due to a vacancy at strong safety. They gladly traded back b/c he was a bit of a reach at 20. Green Bay had a glaring need at free safety, hence Clinton-Dix. Cleveland wanted Manziel. KC prioritized a pass rusher because of how drastically their defense dropped off when Justin Houston or Hali weren't on the field, plus Hali will be 31 soon and they know the team revolves around their ability to play defense. Cincy has Andre Smith. SD has Fluker. Philly has Lane Johnson. Next up is New Orleans' 27th spot.

    From there, I have a hard time believing Carolina would pass on Benjamin and leave the 32 year old Cotchery and the 31 year old Avant as Cam's starting receivers, with nothing behind them no less. Then you got NE, San Fran, and Denver, none of whom need a 1st round RT. Minnesota at 32 isn't passing on Bridgewater for a RT. That puts us in the second round and a pretty feasible trade up scenario. Or we could've taken Seantrel Henderson at pick 234, LOL.

    Some people complained that anything less than a 1st rounder on a RT would be setting the Oline up for failure. Well, there's the aforementioned Henderson suggesting otherwise. Seattle patiently waited until the end of the 2nd round for their starting RT, Justin Britt, who has looked great and held off Eric Winston. The Saints offensive line is comprised of 3rd round Terron Armstead at LT, 7th round Zach Strief at RT, and that horrendous 4th round All Pro guard, Jahri Evans. Wait a minute, something doesn't seem right here; that's the same Saints team that traded up for Brandin Cooks. Surely they should be more concerned about protecting Brees, well unless they think they can accomplish it without spending 1st rounders at every O-line position. The Saints haven't spent a 1st rounder on a tackle in the 9 years that Brees has been there. According to GMJohnson and others, Drew should be suffering mightily because of it, not average 5272 yards and 43 TDs the past 3 years.
     
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  23. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    Didn't the Eagles trade a 1st rounder and a 4th rounder to get Jason Peters from the Bills? Ya... he was an UDFA of the Bills... but the Eagles had to pay to acquire him.

    And we caught a tough break with Jake Long's body breaking down... but he was the epitome of elite. If he didnt break down (which is something you can't predict), a healthy Jake, Pouncey, and potentially James... that would be the makings of an elite line. We've done well identifying the talent... just have had bad luck with injuries.
     
  24. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pundits were saying that James was a reach because his talent did not warrant a mid 1st round pick. Obviously Hickey disagreed. Based on the limited sample size preseason offers it appears Hickey was right and the pundits were wrong. Its really just that simple. You can play this we shoulda or coulda game with just about any pick but its all just pure speculation.
     
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  25. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Except that if Long signed with us, there's no guarantee we'd have drafted James.
     
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  26. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Outside of that.....what I found interesting was this part:



    Though Jackson wasn't the kind of receiver Kelly preferred, his ability to shoot past defensive backs and own one-on-one matchups is rare. So, it wasn't a surprise when the Eagles selected Vanderbilt receiver Jordan Matthews in the second round of the 2014 draft. Matthews brought in 201 passes in his final two collegiate seasons, and ended his time as the SEC's career leader in receptions (262) and receiving yards (3,759). Matthews has the one thing Kelly wants in his receivers above all -- the ability to deal with man-to-man coverage. As the coach said at this year's owners meetings, it's on his mind a lot.

    "Having guys who can get open versus man coverage is a key deal," Kelly said.


    Who among our WR's seems to be best at defeating Man v Man coverage?

    I see Landry definitely fitting this bill...as well as Reshard Mathews. I think this is one of the reasons why Hartline does so well....he can get off man v man..and is very good at running some very key routes.

    Wallace will beat Man v Man purely based on his speed...but what concerns me is what happens when you have a CB that can run with him? Now, not many can...but...hes not a great route runner...and I dont see him fighting to create separation as much as he just runs away from it.

    But...in looking at what they said about what Kelly likes in a WR...Im not seeing blazing speed as being integral.

    Of all of our RB's...who do you think does this best when spread out....?
     
  27. ElNino

    ElNino Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. The naysayers will always say "it was still a reach" even if he is an all pro, since their point is he could have been gotten lower (which we really don't know). But it doesn't matter - if a GM drafts a quality Tackle with a late first round pick, that's a win and he's doing a good job for that pick
     
  28. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    It seems to me that providing adequate context is a lost art on this board (including my posts).

    For a rookie:
    He is doing a fantastic job. Anyone complaining he is not performing well in the context of a rookie offensive lineman should be immediately ignored. He is doing fantastic for a rookie adjusting to the NFL (context of the article)!!!

    For a starting right tackle:
    He makes the grade within pass protection. He might even be approaching an average NFL starting RT in this skill area, but I am not confident with that assessment. He is probably near the bottom of the list for starting right tackles in the run department. The main issue appears to be consistence in this skill area. I have seem some nice blocks delivered by James. My guess is this occurs about 10% of the time.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's an issue he has had since college. But I will say it's not just finding the guy. He has issues staying engaged as well. Guys are getting off his blocks and making a play on the ball.

    It's something to develop over time. Vernon Carey was the exact same way in the initial stages of his career. As time went on he came to be known as a typical right tackle, good run blocker. But initially, he was just a reliable pass protector that was iffy in run blocking.
     
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  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Which posts? I surely hope you didn't consider my post to be negative.
     
  31. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    I think his comment was directed at LBsFinest. yours was pretty level-headed
     
  32. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ask Atlanta if they want to trade Ja'Wuan James for Jake Matthews (man he's struggling right now) straight up and you'd probably get a "yes" in return. Nice to see our 19th pick outplaying a consensus Top 5 player.

    Plus 1 for the good guys.
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Would I have taken JaWuan James at 19 overall? Probably not. But I'm not about to criticize it because there had definitely been a talent drop-off by the time we got to 19 overall.

    I think back to the players I'd have considered at that spot, and some of them could've been taken in the 2nd round. By pick 19 we had already reached that position in the draft where there's not much difference between pick 19 and pick 45.

    If you really wanted to make a BIG impact in the 1st round of this draft, IMO you needed to trade up into at least the #12-13 area, if not the #4-7 area.

    The primary question will be whether Miami should've gotten Brandin Cooks and then picked up Morgan Moses, or whether they did better getting JaWuan James and then picking up Jarvis Landry.

    The thing that's going to bother me though is trading down twice in the 2nd round and then losing out on Allen Robinson as a result, picking up Jarvis Landry instead. There were a fair number of receivers I liked significantly better than Landry. But, who knows.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't consider Jarvis Landry to be a man to man wide receiver. I consider him to be a zone specialist. That's why he's best as a slot guy.

    Mike Wallace is a man to man specialist. You put man coverage on him with no safety help over top and it should be an easy beat. Brian Hartline is a man to man specialist as well because he's such a great route runner with great body control. Brandon Gibson was that way in St. Louis and he's pretty good at getting open in man for Miami as well, but he's also found a niche as a slot guy.

    Rishard Matthews is a total wildcard at this point. Still.

    I don't know if Miami has any RBs that show special skills when spread out, to be honest. But that's not a common trait among RBs. In this draft to get that you would have needed to draft either Charles Sims or Marion Grice.
     
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  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I admit to having a 2nd round grade on him, thought if we wanted him we could of tried to trade down..
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I got real excited when Terrence Fede tossed him around in the preseason game, and much less excited when I saw a lot of other players on other teams doing the same. Don't know what's up with him, whether it's his transition back to right tackle taking a toll on him or if his head is just spinning being in the NFL...but he's struggling, and I wouldn't have expected that.

    Greg Robinson has it the best because he's being moved inside to guard which will REALLY take a lot of pressure off him, and just let him do what he's best at. The guy could be another Larry Allen type at guard if they keep him there. You'll note on his PFF grades that he's got a -2.0 grade in two games he played at LG, but a -5.1 for the one game he played at LT. Not a coincidence. I kept trying to tell people he's not the left tackle prospect everyone thinks he is. But man could he be good at left guard.
     
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  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I had a 1st round grade on him.
     
  38. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    I want to see what he does in a regular season game against seasoned D-Linemen before I anoint him the chosen one.

    But so far, he has passed the eyeball test.
     
  39. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    So...would you say a Man to Man specialist is someone who has the speed to get past Man to Man....or is it someone who has the ability to create separation through agility or size? Thats what I see with Dez Bryant and why he is such a monster....he has both it seems.

    Would seem like the 2015 Draft if we stay with the current thought process on offense...that this might be the year we get a RB like a Charles Sims or Marion Grice..
     
  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    True they did. But they have an elite line. We don't and we have 2 first rounders, and a 3rd if you include Jake Long (which we don't obviously). And paddy talked about cap space with Albert.
     

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