Jake Long outcome with Miami Dolphins could open door for Eric Fisher

San Francisco 1st round tackles, first round left guard. Baltimore have first round tackles. New England first round left tackle and left guard. Atlanta, first round left tackle. THEMES.

 

If your QB can't stand up then doesn't matter who you have threatening the deep middle.

 

I thought we looked at him 2 yrs ago coming off of a knee surgery?

Or draft one in rd #3 or so, imo the premium now is on athletic Guards.

 

Sure, however how much of a premium should be paid for a player who may or may not do that?

"Oh, have to keep your Qb upright, so use #1-#3 picks every yr"?

That hasn't worked.

 

Boomer hates the disabled.

 

I'd take the offensive linemen later in the draft, take playmakers early

On both sides of the ball mind you, our secondary aside from Jones treat interceptions like STD's..wouldn't want to catch one would you?

 

Given that the best pass rushers line up over the tackles, I don't see how.

 

Except look at the teams who made the final four this year and tell me it doesn't work.

 

He used to be one of the Manchester Ninja.

 

All of this debate is TOTALLY null and void till after free agency. Miami met let Long walk, re-sign Smith, cut Marshall, sign Derek Cox, Ed Reed might leave the Ravens and sign, Mike Wallace and we trade for Finley - that's who I think Ireland was talking about - they might see better value in round two for complimentary wideouts. Then at that point your draft emphasis might have changed and so you're looking at the best value defensive end which even then could be the number four or five guy against the number two or tackle. I just don't think that pre free agency you can rule anyone out apart from a passer and a center.

 

Although if the market for re-signing Long was something in the neighborhood of 8-9 million, you could certainly take the difference in salaries for the #12 pick (last year, Fletcher Cox signed a contract that averaged a little over 2 and a half million) and put it towards another position you may not have been able to afford if you re-signed Jake. With the uncertainly surrounding Jake's health going forward it might actually be a better use of resources, although the flip side of that is Ireland hasn't exactly been stellar in using resources.

 

Did they get their playmakers first, or did they take OL first?

Take a look at what the Jags have done for example, they spent high picks on OL, as per standard policy, then drafted playmakers, and it has worked out badly, similarly for us vis a vis the Henne era.

49ers tried it with Alex Smith, it did not work for years

Etc, the old "get the OL straight first! use high picks!"

Doesn't really work Boomer, you can get bye with less talent on the OL if you have playmakers, if you have great talent on the OL but no one to make things happen, you become the Browns.

 

Agreed, specific players at this point is really null, strategy however, is everything.

This is why losing yr after yr is so dreadful, NFL offseason is the longest in pro sports.

 

If you are basing that on this past year, I agree. If you are basing that on their career, then no one measures up to Jake Long and Joe Thomas.

 

I agree with this.

 

Hocum and you know it. Davis, Staley and Iupati are hardly new.

 

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. But at this stage it's fairly unlikely that Long is going to regain his form of two years ago. He's Tony Boselli.

 

Nothing wrong with spreading a little cheddar on the offensive line. Just have to, you know, actually pick players worth picking and pay them what they're worth. Which we've not been doing.

 

And they did not help Smith an iota until 2011, now Davis was there for both of Smith and CKap.

You can always draft some Tackle, a playmaker like Davis? Not so much, take a look at the cowboys for example, ditto Green Bay.

They eventually add OL talent with high picks, usually at the back end of the first rd, not the Top 12, that is for playmaker drafting.

 

Yeah, that pesky NFC Championship last year really got them nowhere. And Smith had Crabtree and Davis and Gore and Hunter and the Hback whose name escapes me and the Wilson kid at WR and Ginn. But other than that, youre dead right.

 

Yep. Damn Green Bay with their two first round tackles. And Dallas with Tyron Smith who was picked, what 9?

 

Exactly, nothing wrong with taking a OL with a first rd pick, when building an offense though, it is better to take playmakers early and offensive lineman later, if the OL don't work out, the next draft will be choc a bloc full of yet more OL prospects

Playmakers however, usually are there early, not so much late, we have been doing it backwards.

 

Let's keep in mind what actually happened to Tony Boselli though. He suffered a right shoulder injury in the 2001 season that put him on IR. He never played again.

To that point, he was playing great. He had just been to the 2000 Pro Bowl. What happened with the shoulder is he had shoulder surgery on the right shoulder, and the Jaguars doctor convinced him to have surgery also on his left shoulder since he was going under the knife anyway and the doctor thought there was just some normal wear and tear in there that he could clean up and improve Boselli's strength in that shoulder. Boselli agreed. The surgery on the left shoulder was unsuccessful and Boselli said the shoulder never felt as good after that (he believes unnecessary) surgery as it did before the surgery. It was that left shoulder that forced him into retirement.

I don't think you can just say a guy is Tony Boselli unless you think there's a specific injury that is killing his career. In Boselli's case it was very much the left shoulder which he feels didn't even need surgery and the surgeon botched the job.

If Jake Long's torn triceps is that serious...so be it. But I'd like to see some medical comment on that first.

 

Green Bay have the best QB in football. Great receivers, a great tight end and a run game that works when the pass game works and when the pass game is ticking, you can't stop them. But they couldn't keep Rodgers upright. The two first round tackles got injured and were out and Rodgers was simply sacked and pressured too many times.

San Fran are the best team in football and they have the best offensive line in football. And they're in the Superbowl.

 

Drew Brees is the best Qb in football, do they have a single #1 pick on their offensive line?

 

Not to nitpick but the Packers don't have a second 1st round tackle starter. Derek Sherrod was taken in the 1st round but he's never been the starter. Marshall Newhouse (5th round pick) has been the starter since Chad Clifton went down in 2011. Newhouse first played two full games at right tackle in 2011 then switched over to left tackle for Clifton. He started and played entire games at tackle for 14 of the 16 games of the Packers' record-setting 2011 season.

 

We both know that the curve of Boselli's career went downwards after the injuries started and they went way beyond a shoulder. Niggling injuries like Jake, a torn ACL, bone bruise to the knee, ankle ligament injury, etc. The shoulder was the most serious but it was part of a catalogue of breakdowns? Jake, the past two years is seeing the curve of his career go downwards because of a catalogue of injury issues.

 

You should take it in a quaffer. http://www.quaffer.com/

The only time I've ever had everclear I took it in a quaffer shot glass. Just find a good mixer to go with it, and so long as you throw it back quickly, it won't be too bad.

 

Hi. I'm Bryan Bulaga. 23rd overall pick.

Sherrod Has been injured since December 2011 but the point is that he was drafted to play and was drafted in round one.

 

I agree and disagree. An elite left tackle by himself or with little help around him can be somewhat senseless or excessive. However, a great left tackle who is apart of an outstanding Oline is quite valuable. IMO if you draft a premier left tackle you should be looking at it from the standpoint of committing yourself to building a top line capable of controlling the LOS considering they work as a unit. If you're prepared to build the unit into a team strength, then go ahead and spend the picks needed to do so.

Personally, if Fisher is on the board and he represents the top value, I don't see a problem taking him considering we already have Pouncey & Martin (who could be a very good left guard IMO). Try and sign Vollmer or Cherilus in FA and either move Incognito to RG or draft Larry Warford and the line becomes a strength for years to come.
Fisher - Martin - Pouncey - Warford - Vollmer/Cherilus

 

I don't agree with this. Certainly Tony Boselli in 2000 wasn't QUITE the same player he was in 1999. He wasn't an All Pro, for example. But who would be, after tearing their ACL in January of 2000? It's actually pretty amazing he came back in 2000 only 8 months after ACL surgery and started all 16 games and played at a Pro Bowl level. He was doing fine in 2001 for 3 games until he suffered the right shoulder injury, and it was the right shoulder injury that induced a surgeon to engage in unnecessary surgery on the left shoulder which literally killed his career and forced him into retirement.

Jake Long is 27 years old. To say that he's basically shot as a 27 year old only 5 years into his NFL career is a pretty bold claim. I don't think you can make that claim based on a sub-par (for him, actually quite good for most everyone else) season in a brand new system, which was cut short by a torn triceps.

 

Yes I'm well aware of Bryan Bulaga. I was stating that Derek Sherrod never won the starting job. Had nothing to do with injuries. Marshall Newhouse won the job over him.

If you're using Derek Sherrod as an example of why it's a good idea to draft a tackle in the 1st round, I think that's a pretty strange point to be making.

 

Already having their playmakers in place meant they could draft T's in back half of Rd #1, not Top 12 mind you, or even Top 15.

 

He clearly isn't but fine.

Ben Grubbs says hi.

 

It's obtuse of you to mention how important it is to interrupt the passing game and then suddenly downplay a top player who can help nullify this very notion. Let me lay it out for you Padre- if getting pressure on the QB is so important, then the ability to hinder that pressure is important in it's own right; plus, and how do you plan on scoring those TDs you speak of if your Oline doesn't allow you to create them? There's a reason this is 11 vs 11, not 7 on 7.

I find it quite ironic that you make such a big deal out scoring TDs and disrupting the passing game and then downplay the ONLY positions that legitimately affects both of these areas.

 

This is a stupid debate. There's no one way to skin the cat but there's certainly nothing foolish about investing in the offensive line. Just do it wisely.

 

By the Ravens..they did not use a pick on him..