Its time...

And my point is you cannot expect our defense to hold against the passing attacks of those three teams seeings as we have rookie corners, and no defense has been able to consistently stop them all season long.

You have to assume that if a Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Drew Brees gets the ball back with 1:30 or more left on the clock odds are they put 6 on the board. Why do you think Belichik went for it on 4th and 2 against the Colts? He knew Peyton scores 6 that drive whether he gives him the ball on their own 28 or the Colts 20. Explosive passing attacks cover that ground in one or two plays.

 

You're messing with me right? Sorry, what i meant was not actually clamp down them, btu at least make them work for their points.

This is meaningless. Wanna know why those teams you mentioned are elite? Its because their QB's are Drew Brees, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Like I said earlier, put the ball in your play-makers hands. Those QB's are the playmakers of the NFL so its no wonder why their are a pass first team.

Because they dont have a QB like a Manning or Brady. By the way, the Saints are 4th in the league in rushing.

Top 5 rushing teams in the NFL:

1. Tennessee Titans QB - Kerry Collins/Vince Young
2. New York Jets QB - Mark Sanchez
3. Miami Dolphins QB - Chad Pennington/Chad Henne
4. New Orleans Saints QB - Drew Brees
5. Carolina Panthers QB - Jake Delhomme

So there is your reason why they may run the ball well but have a bad record.

 

So you feel we should have a shootout with our rookie QB? Remember against the Saints, we were up 24-10 at the half and we were consistently running the ball. All of a sudden we decide to air it out and we ended up losing. Had we eaten up the clock and continued pounding the ball, the odds for us to win would have skyrocketed.

 

No. This team is not equipped for that. I guess I kind of agree with you that currently our best chance at winning is to run the ball. And running the ball is always the best recipe when you have the lead. But against teams like New England, Indianapolis, and New Orleans, it's going to be rare occasions where you have a big enough lead to milk the clock by running the ball.

That's why I think if want to compete with the NFL's elite teams down the road we need to add some explosiveness to the offense. My stance on this issue has more to do with what we need to do in the future, and not so much what we need to do with our current playcalling.

 

LOL. Oh, then yea i agree, I was referring to what we need to do right now with the personnel we have.

 

My first point is people need to relax just a bit and let this front office work their plan. We are in year 2 of the rebuilding process, that started with the worst roster in the NFL at the time. There is plenty of work to be done. This staff understands we need a #1 WR and some weapons in general in the passing game. They will address it.

Second, This years team, note I said this years, doesn't have the talent to be a pass first team. So why are people calling for that? Who really can argue the most talented players on the offense were Ricky + Ronnie? You want to take it out their hands and give it to....... who? Ginn? Cam? Bess? Fasano? Our RB's are OUR GAME BREAKERS. That is how it is this year. Don't like it? Tough titty deal with it. That is how this year is going to play out. Maybe next year.

We will be a more balanced team once we acquire the talent to do so. I would love for some of you guys to draw up an offensive game plan that is pass first with these WR's and a QB making his 8th start and win games. Good luck with that.

 

Nailed it.

 

Yes you are missing something. Unless you consider #23 in the league a good run offense. And before that?

And there is a huge difference between run first, and only can run. We can't pass for shiz.

 

I tend to disagree with the statement of a QB driven league just based on history. The colts right now are the exception, not the example. Even the Colts had a solid run game when they won the SB. Look at the successful teams in the NFL and see what separates them from the mediocre teams. Earth, wind, fire, Eli Manning. LT, Turner, now LT, Sproles, Rivers. Bush, Pierre Thomas, Mike Bell, Brees. Parker,Moore, Mendenhall, Big Ben. Cedric Benson, Scott, Palmer...on and on. My point is, you have to have a solid run game as well as a good if not great passer. So in that example, I still say the run game dominates.

 

Wrong again. Let's looks at the last 10 super bowl winners shall we.

Pittsburgh - great defense
Giants - Great Defense
Colts - very good defense
pittsburgh - great defense
Patriots - Great defense
Patriots - Great defense
Bucs - Great defense
Patriots - Great defense
Ravens - Great defense
Rams - Very Good defense

As I said, defense wins championships.

 

The Rams?

 

State of the Franchise:
1) jury is still out on Henne but he's got the rest of the season to make his bones
2) GinnJr. is a bust
2) Pat /white & turner are unknown quantities that need play time to develop & evaluate
3) we need to acquire several top rated pieces to compete for a SuperBowl: W/R, NT. ILB, C/G (backup) & TE, depending on Henne
4) we need to coach-up, season & evaluate this team in 2009, if we are to compete in 2010
it is my expectation that we do all these things while remaining combative & competitive throughout the rest of the season

 

They were like 4th in the NFL the year they won the Superbowl.

 

But this just restates my question in another form. The top passing teams all have elite quarterbacks. The top rushing teams all have elite running backs. But the teams with elite quarterbacks are outperforming the teams with elite running backs...because passing is much more important than running in today's NFL.

 

yup. the 99 Rams had one of the best offenses ever, but they won because of their defense.

need proof? the next year, in 2000, their defense was ranked 31st in the NFL, and they lost in the first round of the playoffs.

the next year, in 2001, they were ranked 3rd in defense, and they go back to the Super Bowl. no coincidence.

 

The Colts, Patriots, and Rams all had good defenses, that seemed great because they were putting a lot of points on the board and teams were making mistakes desperately trying to play catch up.

Aside from that, there is only one case on your list (The Ravens) where a good or great offense was equally important if not more (the teams I mention above) to the team winning the superbowl. And somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Ravens superbowl came before the rule change regarding contact DBs can have with WRs.

I think if we're going to have an honest discussion about the importance of the passing game in the NFL you have to take into account those rule changes. It was an entirely different game before that change. It's no coincidence that Marino's records have fallen in the years following the change.

 

the Colts had a terrible defense the year they won the Super Bowl. however, in the playoffs, they had one of the best defenses, and went on a great run. every other year, their defense played poorly in the playoffs. Peyton Manning's worst overall playoff performance was the year they won the Super Bowl.

this isn't rocket science.

 

What do you mean wrong? I specifically said:

"Now obviously you need balance and defense is a large part of that. But the successful teams have the ability to put up points quickly and then defenses that can pin their ears back and create turnovers. In other words they pass and defend the pass."

Nothing about what I said was wrong or disproved by your post. But there does seem to be a problem with your reading/comprehension skills.

 

Everyone knows that defense is hugely important to winning but this thread is about our offense and the top offenses in this league are passing offenses. All other things being equal a great passing attack will put more points on the board than a great rushing attack.

 

Then by all means let's throw the ball every time

 

Have you never heard of the concept of balance?

Every single post that advocates improving our passing game admits that we need defense and a balanced offense. And most every attack of that concept resorts to extremes like the ridiculous comment above.

 

You thought I was serious.....

What a gullicaff.

 

Sorry, I got your sarcastic post confused with the equally ridiculous yet seemingly sincere posts of those arguing we just need defense and/or a running game.

 

Killerphins, are you one of the individuals in your avatar photo? I have been wondering where this guy with the body paint has been before last season? I don't recall ever seeing him before. But I like his dedication.

 

I have been asked that before here and I am not

 

You joking right? The Patriots had one of the best defenses in the NFL. Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Law, Coolvin, Seymour, McGinest. The Rams were ranked 4th in the NFL in defense. And the Colts were a good defense as well with a great pass rush and very good secondary, as well 2 good linebackers in June and Brackett. There defense was extremely good in the playoffs, hence why they won the superbowl. Funny how Peyton can't get it done any other year, with the defense playing bad. So you're very wrong there. Glad you mentioned Marino. Wanna know why he doesn't have a ring? You guessed it, Defense wins championships.

 

I agree 100%. Why did we stop what was working so well. All these incomplete passes on 1st down is what did us in. The play calling was suspect from the 1st drive.

Let me be the first to petition for Charlie Weiss (SP) to be the OC next year after he gets canned from ND this week.

 

I still want a strong run game but I would love this team to eventually run an NFL caliber passing offense. All I want for Christmas is a shotgun formation.

 

I'm new here so I wasn't aware. Thanks for clarifying.

 

Yeah, the Colts defense was lights out against the Pats in the AFC championship when they let up 34 points and it would've been 41 if Jabar Gaffney didn't drop a ball right in his numbers.

Peyton Manning's heroic 2nd half along with Dallas Clark beat the Pats. Make NO mistake about it. PEYTON MANNING. NOT the defense

 

You could say we are balanced now -- we have about the same amount of yards passing as rushing. But that's a terrible way to be. Successful teams have many more passing yards than rushing yards.

 

Because Brady, Manning and Brees are the exceptions not the norm.

 

What does that mean? Isn't being exceptional the goal?

If, on the other hand, you are contending that Brady, Manning and Brees are the exceptions to a run-dominated league, or even a run-pass balanced league, then you're factually mistaken.

But if I am misunderstanding you, I apologize.