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Is Ryan Tannehill the long term solution at QB?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Chuck Wilson, Nov 1, 2015.

Is Ryan Tannehill the long term answer at QB for us?

  1. Yes

    44 vote(s)
    40.7%
  2. No

    39 vote(s)
    36.1%
  3. Not quite sure, need to see more

    25 vote(s)
    23.1%
  1. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    How about wins in correlation to success in the running game? Because we know Tannehill can't throw us into the win column consistently without a running game. That's my point, not JUST his individual passing yards and TDs, although I believe those are influenced.


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  2. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Interesting result. Across 2012-2014 (for the Dolphins), correlation between wins and total rushing yards is 0.39, while correlation between wins and total passing yards is 0.15.

    I'll still put the disclaimer here that all this should be done with Y/A (we know across the league the correlation for passing Y/A is 0.43 from 1990 to 2011) instead of total yards and the results can be very different then, but those are the stats.
     
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    They "make plays." That's a great sounding term. It sounds smart. But what does it mean? Are you talking about a QB running the ball on his own? Fine, I'll give you that one. Are you talking about a QB throwing the ball? In that case, it's not simply the QB "making plays." It's now two guys, at least, "making plays."
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    There's also the argument that wins create more runs, as teams run to kill the clock late in games.
     
  5. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Their just homers and there is nothing wrong with that ... Unless you aren't aware you are being a homer and delude yourself into thinking you really are objective.

    No way Tanny is as good as Big Ben. No way. Not even Russell Wilson.

    No way either of those two are as good Brady or Rodgers. You have to suspend logic to put Tanny in tier 3.
     
  6. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    Matt Ryan just fumbled on the goal line.

    Must suck.
     
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  7. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You are apparently incapable of evaluating a qb aren't you.
     
  8. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Yeah, I actually showed in a previous thread that winning teams in the last decade tend to have better than average passing Y/A than rushing Y/A and one possible reason is exactly what you stated.
     
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  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You're apparently incapable of answering a simple question.

    And, apparently incapable of not slurping up the slop that outlets like ESPN shove at you.
     
  10. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Not sure exactly what that means but I'm assuming that means rushing yards help us get wins more often than passing yards do. Right?


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  11. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Yeah, correlation can go from -1 to 1. If the correlation between two stats X and Y is zero that means a change in one on average does not affect a change in the other. A positive correlation means the more X changes in one direction, the more Y does too. Negative correlation means the more X changes in one direction the more Y changes in the other direction. The closer the value is to 1 (or -1), the stronger the relationship.

    So 0.39 > 0.15 means that on average we win more the more rushing yards we have per game compared to passing yards per game.

    Keep in mind the old adage: correlation doesn't imply causation. That means you can't infer a causal relationship here. It means that for whatever reason, we win more when we have more rushing yards.
     
  12. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    That's sounds right. Matches what I've seen on the field.


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  13. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    How do you know when a QB isn't the answer? His supporters say things like, "you can't really use wins and losses as a measure for QBs" and "it's the OL, HC, OC, WR, defenses, etc..fault" and "how come when Brady throws a short pass on 3rd and long he is great, but when ours does he isn't?" and "if we had the best OL, WR, TE, defense, OC, HC and owner he could lead to the playoffs", etc...

    What does a fan base say about QBs that are the answer, "he has a winning record of (blank)" and "he led us to the playoffs (blank) number of times" and "do you recall these games that were hanging in the balance and he led us on a Game Winning Drive" and "he was able to pull out (blank) come-from-behind victories in the 4th quarter" and "do you recall he was able to make these big-plays that completely turned the game in our favor" and "we know if the game is close in the 4th quarter we are most likely to win", etc...

    If a QB isn't the solution then he is a problem. The position is that damn important to winning and losing ball games!

    It pretty clear Miami needs, at the minimum, to draft a QB early next year to provide competition at the position. Any new HC that has a clue will want to upgrade the QB position or he won't be HC for long.
     
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  14. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If I was a HC I might actually prefer to go to a team where I knew I could rebuild according to my wishes as opposed to one where i had to take a QB I didn't really believe in and where I had to inherit a DT who had more leverage against the team than I.
     
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  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    got to give credit where credit is due, to newton and shula...the man is averaging 9 carries a game...up about 20 %...ryan tanehills reps are down 70% this year....lol..

    there is so much wrong and right in what I just wrote as it relates to both numbers...

    but we dont want our boy to get hurt...awwww so cute..
     
  16. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I watched Brady this past Thursday. He didn't just stare down one receiver as Tannehill constantly does. He sees the whole field and he has the ability to read the defense. While he doesn't have the foot speed Tannehill does, he is able to move in the pocket to create time to throw.

    Tannehill on the otherhand is often oblivious to the pressure in the pocket and instead he gets hit without ever moving in one direction or another.

    You mention it taking two guys on pass plays. I agree and that is why I wasn't that impressed by Tannehill in the Texans game. He basically threw very short passes and it was the players around him who turned these short passes into long TD plays. When it comes down to Tannehill making the plays during the closing minutes of a close game, he fails far more often than he has success in these situations.

    Elite QB's make the plays during these situations.

    I understand you want to blame others for Tannehills problems as the Dolphins QB. I wish I felt he was the long term answer at the QB position for the Dolphins, but I just don't believe he is.

    You could trade him for Alex Smith tomorrow and I don' think there would be any different for this offense. Because to me, they are both game managers who need others to play great for the team to win. They just aren't the type QB who can elevate the players around them.

    I NEVER hear any of the players on the Dolphins speak highly of Tannehill as the players did when Marino was the teams QB. I honestly don't think the players truly believe in Tannehill, but they realize like many of us do that right now he is the best option available on the roster.

    I would love to see Tannehill prove me wrong about him. Yet after three plus seasons,I just don't see a QB who inspires me to believe he is anything other than the mediocre QB I thought they drafted in 2012.
     
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  17. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    Matt Ryan just threw another pick, 3 TOs in the first half.

    And these clowns hate on Tannehill lmfao!!!

    The lack of football knowledge is amazing, and disgusting.
     
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  18. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    Andy Dalton got sacked on 3rd and 15. Must have held the ball too long.

    Like Tannehill, right? Cuz it's always the QB's fault lol.
     
  19. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, I think we all saw how well Tannehill ran it during certain games last year and it really seemed to help.

    You know, I totally agree with your sentiment that Ryan should run more, but dude, he's not done it up until now and so there's probably no chance he's ever going to start doing that. That's the reason I say no, he's not a franchise guy who can be a long-term answer. After 4 years we're still talking "potential" and that's ridiculous.

    Ryan is a guy who absolutely has the physical tools to be Aaron Rodgers but the difference between them is night and day. It just shows how much mental stuff is going on that we don't see.

    In my eyes, the Alex Smith comparisons are a little unfair because Alex Smith really sucks. He cannot see the field and really struggles badly to push the ball downfield without making huge mistakes. In my eyes, Tannehill has the ability to be better than Smith but to often he looks very much like him. The fact that Tannehill looks like Smith in maybe 1/3rd of his games is an awful criticism that is unfortunately kind of true.

    To me, Alex Smith is a huge reason why whatever team he's on is never going to win it all. There are simply things Alex Smith cannot do and which are required to really beat a good defense. Tannehill--while somewhat better--seems only to be by a small margin.

    If I was rooting for another team and they were playing Tannehill, I know I would't be scared.

    I'm starting to really believe the people who say that by the time the team is good enough to carry Tannehill to the Play-offs it'll be good enough to carry someone else as well. I think we have to consider that. At some point we may be better off taking a shot on someone else if we know Tannehill just doesn't have the top gear in him. Middle-class can be found pretty easily so long as the coaching is decent.
     
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  20. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Now Tannehill is better than Matt Ryan? Off this one game and Tannehill's perfect QBR game?


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  21. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    I would be okay if he just used his feet to get outside of the pocket putting pressure on the defense. Right now the defense can crowd the line of scrimmage knowing he isn't going to throw over them, blitz and rush knowing he is going to be right behind the center.

    As you say, if he threw in a few runs keeping the defense honest that sure would help. Right now Tannehill is a Defensive Coordinators dream to plan for.
     
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  22. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    So rather than consistently picking out QBs having a bad game and then be mocking, can you build a case based on Tannehill's actual body of work why he is the answer at QB?
     
  23. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Trolling.

    Trolling.

    Trolling.

    One more for good measure.
     
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  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    dude, im not sure who you think you are, but your act of calling people names indirectly is getting bothersome..your new here, show some respect for the board and how things are done here.

    you'd be banned with a comment like that if I was a mod.
     
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  25. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Yep...


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  26. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    LOL, facts anger the haters.
     
  27. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think someone just got called out!

    Namaste, brah!
     
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  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    what do you and res think you are proving with a statement like that?
     
  29. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    We will just agree to disagree.

    See ya!
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    res your no better then he for thanking this post..

    this dude is a troll.
     
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  31. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Your childish reponses are ridiculous. This is a discussion forum. It is okay to disagree with individuals on here, but that doesn't make one persons opinion any more valid than someone else's.

    Why they allow your immature comments to remain on this forum is beyond me. The moderators must be busy today watching football instead of monitoring this forum.
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yup..1 carry a game..and 1 rollout a game is proof enough..
     
  33. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    I'm entitled to my opinion as much as anybody else.

    No matter how stupid it seems.

    However, you don't have to read it. Feel free to block me.

    Have a great day!

    Bye Felicia!
     
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    DJ, I never see you call out the anti-Tannehill trolls.

    Regardless, I see people dump all over Tannehill for far less than 3 turnovers in one half.
     
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  35. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    Can you imagine what would happen here if he looked like Ryan does today in a half?

    It would be UGLY.
     
  36. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    That's no worse than several Tannehill critics do on the flip-side...and they're still here. If they can point out what other QBs do as a comparison to show they're better than ours, why can't the reverse also apply, particularly when it's QBs that they widely state are better than RT?

    I will say this though, childish responses are fairly common these days...it's why I've basically kept from posting in mains threads.
     
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  37. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

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    People seem to forget how rare good QBs are, and will be quick to condemn what they have because it isnt the best of the best. Franchise or not, we can all agree he is manageable, and better than the bottom half. So what do you do, you ****ing ride with it till something better comes along, which may take a while. This poll is dumb. So what if he isnt the longterm solution? There is nothing better here at the moment. What would you have the team do? Dont answer, I wont read. If this is anything like the other Tannehill threads, it will be closed soon because some people take this QB discussion too personally.
     
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  38. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    Exactly. Just pointing out the shocking double standard these guys have. In one thread Matt Ryan is 1000 times better than Tannehill, but then when I point out that Ryan is not as good, and the facts bear that out, I am called a troll.

    Which I believe would be a TOS violation?
     
  39. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    Irony................I don't post on here much but after seeing a few threads that you are active in I can objectively say that you are a joke. Put me on ignore next. Pu**y move by the way.
     
  40. yoge

    yoge New Member

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    You make a good point. And you do agree we need something better at the QB position. But we are stuck like chuck for now and next season too and maybe beyond that.
     

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