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Is our search for a quarterback truly over?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by phins2phins, Jan 19, 2010.

  1. phins2phins

    phins2phins New Member

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    In preparation for free agency and the draft I have decided to write a series of posts in which I break the team down into smaller sections and then discuss what we have, what we need and what is available. I attempted to write just one post addressing these subjects but at the end I found what I had was a really long post which left too many questions unanswered, so hopefully you will enjoy this format and keep coming back to read the remaining posts in the series.

    I’m going to start off by looking at our quarterback situation because I feel like there are still too many people out there who seem to be looking at this position as an empty spot which we still need to find the right person to fill. So where do I think we stand right now?

    Chad Pennington.- Pennington will be an unrestricted free agent as of September 1st, 2010 and he has clearly expressed his intentions to be a starter in the 2010 season, which means he is willing to go to another team. Furthermore, the Dolphins have not expressed any intentions of keeping him and I honestly don’t think we will resign him. Why? Pennington will never be a great playmaking quarterback. He just doesn’t have a strong enough arm to spread out the defense enough to open up our game.
    Don’t get me wrong, I think he brought a lot to the team but I think we have outgrown him. Without a doubt, Pennington’s greatest contribution was in the locker room, he has a great leader quality and he was good at getting people motivated. Sure Pennington played a part in getting the team to win the division in 2008 but really what most people remember from us that season was the revival of the wildcat, without the wildcat we wouldn’t have gotten there and he collapsed at the beginning of the season, not to mention this is his third shoulder injury.
    I think keeping Pennington as a backup quarterback could be a good option but at this point in time I really don’t think that will happen; nor do I think it is an option he would go for because there are a lot of teams out there in need of a quarterback and he does have a chance of getting his start somewhere else this upcoming season.

    Chad Henne.- Anyone that knows me is aware of the fact that Henne is definitely in my list of top 3 players for the Dolphins this season (Davone Bess and Vontae Davis are the other 2). And honestly I’m still baffled by the fact that there are so many skeptics out there who still doubt Henne is our new QB. Not only did the guy end up with a 7-6 winning record as a starter and kept us in playoff contention until week 17 despite all our injuries; but he also has a rocket of an arm and he grows exponentially every week.
    What most of these non-believers use as a basis for Henne not being good enough is the fact that he threw more interceptions (14) than touchdowns (12) this season. But how many great QBs had numbers like these during their first starting season? Payton Manning for examples threw 28 interceptions and 26 touchdowns, Tom Brady threw 12 interceptions and 18 touchdowns, a positive but not overly impressive record in these terms. Also worth mentioning is the the fact that these quarterbacks were indeed the designated starters at the beginning of the season thus they were, at least theoretically, better prepared for the job at hand.
    I believe it is also important to take into consideration that more than a couple of those picks came as a result of good passes which were mishandled or tipped by the receivers, and that more than a few accurate passes were thrown and not caught which could have also led to the number of TDs adding up. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not in any way blaming those stats merely on the receivers, it just serves to prove the point that the team chemistry will get better during the offseason and mistakes like these will be minimized. Henne and the receivers will be able to develop a rapport during the offseason which will serve to improve these issues tremendously. I should also add that providing Henne with a good #1 wide receiver will be the final ingredient needed to bump this guy up to the next level.
    Henne had 3 300+ yards games this season even though his best long distance receiver is supposed to be Ted Ginn. And for all the people out there that love Marino, myself included, I feel the need to point out that during his first season as a starter Dan threw for a total of 2210 yards, Henne threw for a total of 2878 yards and that is with 3 fewer games and without guys like Mark Clayton and Mark Duper to help him with those long passes.
    In case I haven’t made it clear enough up until now, I believe Henne is our starting quarterback and we should start embracing him as the new franchise quarterback because I believe he is here to stay and will be key in making us become the team to beat this decade.

    Pat White.- I want to start off by saying, if nothing else there is one thing that this guy has that many other players wish they had (hmm Ginn) and that is guts. That was made clear during the last game of the season when he took that horrible hit in order to gain about 2 more yards in an attempt to get us that first down. He was running right by the sidelines and he could have stepped out at any point yet he went for it; and for that courage he gets my respect.
    That being said, I don’t think the kid is cut out for the NFL, he is just too small and he doesn’t have an arm at all. Pat White is easily one of the worst draft picks we have ever made! I still see people out there talking about how good he is but really what is that based on? Undoubtedly his college career because the truth of the matter is he had a chance to prove himself during that last game of the season and he failed miserably. We had absolutely no offense in that game against the Steelers while Pat White was in it, it wasn’t even that he made mistakes, it was that he generate no plays at all.
    I’m sorry but White just doesn’t cut it and if the opportunity for a trade was made available at all I believe they should take it.

    Tyler Thigpen.- Now this guy unlike White did take the opportunity that was given to him and ran with it. A lot of people blamed the loss against the Steelers on the 2 interceptions he threw but the truth of the matter is that we would have never been in a position to win that game if it wasn’t for that long perfect TD pass to Bess and all the plays that set up that other TD as well.
    This guy is young and has a lot of potential and he also has a great arm, during his starting season with the Kansas City Chiefs he accumulated a total of 2608 yards, 18 TDs and 12 interceptions. Keep in mind that he didn’t become a part of the Dolphins’ roster until late September after Pennington went down. Thigpen should be our backup quarterback next season.

    So at this point in time I believe our QB position has been clearly defined with Henne as our starter and Thigpen as our backup. Pat White will likely remain our 3rd string quarterback and I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw a couple of “wildpat” plays next season although I would like for that to disappear altogether and for them to try to find a replacement for the position but I don’t believe it is something that needs to be addressed immediately, nor do I believe it is something they should focus on during the draft.

    There is one more point I’d like to discuss in this post and that is the option of drafting Tim Tebow which is also something I seem to be hearing a lot of people say we should do since they seem to think he would be such a great addition to the wildcat. Let me start by saying that if you still think that our offense should be solely based on the wildcat and that our draft should be influenced based solely on this offensive play I hope you will be very disappointed but we will leave that up for further discussion later.
    I don’t believe that Tebow will ever be great as a quarterback in the NFL, he has constantly proven that he does not work well when under pressure and he is oftentimes slow when it comes to delivering the football. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him play a different position in a couple of years, I personally think he should explore his potential as a tight end or as a full back. But if you are a Tebow fan I wouldn’t worry too much about him going to far, I believe he will get drafted by the Jags because if nothing else it will help them tremendously with ticket sales, which is something they are indesperate need to improve.



    Additional notes:
    The following are some of the QBs will be free agents in 2010: Kyle Orton (Denver Broncos), Jason Campbell (Washington Redskins), Tarvaris Jackson (Minnesota Vikings), Kellen Clemmens (New York Jets), Charlie Batch (Pittsburgh Steelers), David Carr (New York Giants), and Daunte Culpepper (Detroit Lions).
    The following are some of the QBs which will enter into the draft: Jimmy Claussen (Notre Dame), Sam Bradford (Oklahoma), Colt McCoy (Texas), Tim Tebow (Florida), Tony Pike (Cincinnati), Jevan Snead (Ole Miss), Sean Canfield (Oregon State), and Bill Stull (Pittsburgh).


    If you guys enjoy this post please take the time to visit and read the rest of them at phins2phins.blogspot.com
     
  2. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Do you really think Tebow can be better than Brown out of the Wildcat?

    That would be amazing.
     
  3. phins2phins

    phins2phins New Member

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    I think we should stop focusing on the wildcat so much from now on... Don't get me wrong I loved it when they introduced it 2 years ago and it worked but we need to find other ways to open up our game and we need to improve our passing game
     
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  4. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    First off I loved your post, and thus it pains me to point out any inaccuracy's as it's obvious you put in a lot of time into its creation, but it needs to be pointed out that Dan was drafted in 1983 so we are comparing a 2nd year player to a rookie. That's all good and well but it also needs to be pointed out that Dan during his rookie year did not start until week 6 when buffalo came to Miami. So in fact it is Dan who played in 3 fewer games and not Chad. Lets first take a look at Dan's rookie season in which he started 6 less games than Henne did during his second.

    Dan Marino Rookie Season:
    [​IMG]

    Notice the Yrds/Att at 7.5 and Take special notice of the 20 TD to 6 Int Ratio and the 96.0 QB rating.

    Chad Hennes Second season 3 MORE games than Dan:
    [​IMG]

    Notice that in 3 more games he threw for 8 less TDs and 8 more INT's.


    Ironically they both passed for just about the exact same number of yards per game.

    Chad 221.4
    Dan 221.0

    Here is a look at Dan's second second season for comparison to Chad's (Only because I took the time to take the Snapshot :tongue2:).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

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    Is our search for a quarterback truly over?

    Yes, for the next 10 or so years at least :)
     
    gunn34 likes this.
  6. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the time you put in creating the post. I want to point out that ANY comparisons to Henne vs. Marino will be immediately scrutinized (as has already). With that, I do believe the search for our next "franchise caliber" QB is over (for now). Henne certainly has the tools to be pretty good, and being that this was his first year starting, I am pleased with his results.

    What I liked about Henne this year was that he always remained calm (at least it seemed that way) during times of duress. Not only was this apparent when he came into a big game (all were pretty important this year), but also after he made a mistake. His stats were not always pretty, but he definitely seemed to remain calm. What most impressed me about Henne was his coolness in the pocket. He could do a better job of avoiding the sack, but his ability to find the open receiver inside a veritable black-hole of a pocket is an attribute that cannot be taught. That's just Henne being Henne.

    I am a little concerned with his touch, but I feel that if a receiver gets his hands on the ball, it probably should be caught. Of course, this has been his knock coming out of the combine. Balls can sail on him to the point of making one want to toss a beer at the flat screen, but tossing away a perfectly good beer is just wrong.....but I digress. To become a better-than-average NFL QB, his accuracy, aye, his consistency must be addressed. He simply cannot miss a receiver by over 5 yards downfield only to get intercepted! I think his accuracy is fine because I have seen him make passes into some pretty tight spaces. His consistency with accuracy is key for him.

    All-in-all, I am pretty pleased with our QB situation. Unfortunately, I think Pennington is long gone, although, the ongoing sentiment is to keep him around to coach Henne. I just do not think that is going to happen. I really hate to see him go, because Pennington is a true leader. Henne could (and should) take more of a leadership role in order to progress as an NFL QB. The team sorely needs it. In closing, there is more to like about Henne than to dislike.
     
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  7. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    In no way should Miami lose focus on the Wildcat. It's here to stay as long as Henning and Sparano are here (and of course, the players to compliment that style). I think there is a happy medium to be met once Henne progresses. I feel that Miami can still have Henne throw 25 times a game and leave room for the Wildcat. Just because Henne is taken out of the game or split wide does not mean that Henne should lose his rhythm. It's essentially a running play 95% of the time, anyhow. And this regime is built on a power running style. It is only a wrinkle that Miami has pretty much perfected. I'm gonna get "southern", but why fix something that ain't broke? If we have the players to do it, I say keep it. It works!

    The only way Miami improves it's passing game is for Henne to get better and find a true number one to compliment that. Just because Miami runs the Wildcat does not mean Henne cannot throw for 300 yards and a couple of TDs. Imagine that? Power running and a rocket-armed QB with a legitimate receiver corps! I'd hate to try to defend that if it ever came to fruition.
     
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  8. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    While Yes I agree Henne is pretty good he in no way proved to me he is a long term answer. You can compare him to any number of QBs to state your case but Tony Sparano and Jeff Ireland said it best when they BOTH left the question of Henne being the starter in 2010 open to question. He is in no way even close to being Dan Marino or Peyton Manning. Can he become good enough, maybe, 2010 should prove to be telling imho.

    Should this FO stop looking for and batting for a Home Run? Never!!! We only need to look back on the last 10 years of QB play on this team to see the fallicy of that direction. One should ALWAYS be looking for an upgrade in all positions and with QB being the most important position on the team it is imperative we not rest on our laurels.
     
  9. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    You are incorrect about brady going into the seson the starter.Drew bledsoe was the starter that year and he got hurt early in the season.
    I do like the rest of your post and i think we have our qb for the future.
     
  10. dukane5

    dukane5 New Member

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    Nicely said! Great post and I will certainly appreciate reading more!
     
  11. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    Is the search over?

    I certainly hope Henne believes it is, and dedicates himself this offseason, to synchronizing his arm's bullet tendancies, and perfecting touch pass deliveries, relative to each of our recievers.

    To develop an intuitive understanding of their strengths, abilities, and/or natural propensities, and hopefully enter next season at a sprint.

    Payton Manning did this early on, and resulted in a highly proficient, highly tuned passing chemistry with Marvin Harrisen, and together elevated themselves into an explosive tandem, that ultimately sparked both of their prolific careers.
     
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  12. dgb11112

    dgb11112 Hall Of Fame

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    In My Opinion and I said it before in regards to Teabow... If he falls to us we should take him as a TE prospect similar to Dallas Clark. He can fill that need for the next 6 years in that type of role.
     
  13. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    no more QB's in the Stable please:
    1) hope Pennington returns & there is an open competition
    2) however, :theman:Henne, our starter & one to beat in any competition. I think he is the future of the Franchise, but everyone must compete. Competition is the Elixir of Success.
    3) in Thigpen you have a backup & a competitor, second to none. (not to worry.)
    4) Pat White is not a ProSet QB & will earn his money on Returns, @ WR/Slot, Trick plays: as a Holder, Reverses & in the WildCat. (plenty of options for PatWhite) he has a year to show life & potential. this is not a patient group of men that run the club, he needs to produce & live up to expectations or parish
     
  14. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    There is a school of thought that teams should draft a QB every year on the theory that you improve your chances of finding a keeper or at worst you can get a good draft pick back in a possible future trade .

    That theory works only if you have a good eye for QB talent .However our history has been that we have acquired duds with our No 2 picks .The jury is still out on Henne but we can safely say he is worth a draft pick if we should find someone better.

    BTW I am hopeful that Henne is the franchise QB that we have been looking for .
     
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  15. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Henne gets one more year IMO. I think the FO will get a big name TE or WR in FA to help Henne.
     
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  16. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Friend CrunchTime:

    not against the idea of late picks gambled on future QB's
    however, there are still holes to fill
    & Parcells likes to draft in two's for need
    ILB, WR, NT are needs, that could be as many as 6 picks
    leaving three: FreeSafty, TE & maybe DE
    (probably the second NT could be a fit @ DE)

    so lets say you get your QB or possibly
    another TE & that gives us our 9 draft picks

    pure unfounded, ungrounded speculation. could be we trade to move up for a quality pick to fill a need

    however
    there is no need for more QB's, don't see even a 9th pick going in that direction. bring Pennington back
     
  17. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Love the post phins2phins......

    IMO......

    Chad isn't with Miami next year, he is a UFA soon not 9/1/10 right?? like in March when FA period starts...He still think he can start, but I dont see it, and w/ Henne it wont be w/ Miami at least....Chad is a dead subject

    Henne needs a playmaker, has some nice tools, but needs to clean it up....My brother-in-law loves college football, grew up in Michigan, and went there the same time Henne did, so when Miami drafted him I asked him what was he like....he said "you guys are going to love his arm, however he throws too many bad interceptions, ones that you scratch your head at"...I think we did see that this year with Hen-Dog, rocket arm, the deflected INTs hey nothing you can do about, but we saw too many, trying to force the pass INTs, throwing into double coverage ones, and just straight out throwing it to the other team w/ no Miami player in sight interceptions...I like Henne alot, but the game needs to start as they say slowing down for him even more than it did last year, and he needs to limit those boneheaded pics.....if he gets a stud WR, I could see him passing for close to 4000.....

    Pat White-------agreed

    Thigpen is a really nice backup, a luxary most teams do not have, however IMO, I would be upset if he took any time away from Henne, he shows flashes here and there, however I just dont consider him a serious starter for Miami.

    Wildcat--They will use it sometimes, but it will be phased out IF IF IF that one WR comes along...then you could go more of the spread offense...I dont mean Rich Rodriguez Michigan spread, where the QB has the option to run or pass, I mean the Pats spread offense, 4-5 WRs on the field most of the time spread, throwing out of shotgun on 1st down spread.....the question is does Henning have the cahones to do it?? or even the intellect to run that type of an offense...

    Tebow--Forget this guy, he will get his face cleaned as an NFL QB....I could see him as a TE prospect coming out of the draft, but not for QB money, which is what he will most certainly get.....dont even consider him, I cant see Tuna/Ireland pulling this trigger at any point, and he goes higher than he should anyway....
     
  18. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    the short answer to this thread:
    yes it is over, we have a Franchise QB
    however
    would like to see the return of Pennington
    as a Player/Coach & to create
    @ least the illusion of competition
    Chad the Greater brings a lot to the table
    we are a better team for his participation
     
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  19. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    While I think Chad Pennington did great for us in our 11-5 year, it's time for him to move on.

    If he still wants to play Football in a starting capacity, I don't think I want him to stay here in Miami. The guy got the wrong end of the Football Injury stick, and could have been a GREAT QB, and has had to settle for being a Good QB.

    If he doesn't want to start, and wants to enjoy the rest of his time in the NFL, great. But lets face it, is it really wise to put an injury prone guy, late into his career in our drivers seat? As great of a guy as he is, and as much as I respect and like Chad Pennington, he is by no means the future of our team as a starting player. He knows this, Chad Henne knows this, and the FO knows it. He'd be great for us as a backup, I'd feel super confident if anything happened to Henne with Pennington stepping in, but we all know thats not what he wants.

    Unfortunately thats the nature of the business. Thankfully he's a UFA, and has the personal choice to decide what he wants to do. And I don't know about the rest of you but I'd love to see him go somewhere and help another team rebuild.
     
  20. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    First off....I want to welcome you to thephins.com. I havent had the pleasure of reading your prior entries, but this was very well thought out.

    I believe we have, infact, found our franchise QB. My particular feeling in this case, really has less to do with his first year stats, but how he "looks" as our starting QB. I look at his size, and he has the needed size to play at the NFL level. He needs to work on his core, and his legs, as was pointed out by some on this site. Doing so will improve his agility, and while he will never be Tyler Thigpen, he can buy himself valuable time in the pocket by focusing on this.

    More than that, look at his demeanor. Only the great ones have it. He has the ability to bounce back immediatley after making a bad play. Its one of the reasons why Manny Ramirez is such am amazing hitter. He might whiff his first two times up, but each and every atbat, is a new atbat, and he learns from his first two whiffs, and knocks the crap out of the third. Henne has ice in his veins. He doesnt panick. He exudes supreme confidence, and those around him follow suit. He's a very good leader. Handles the huddle very well. He WANTS to work on his weakness'. He works hard in the class and the film room. All of these things point to being a very, very good to elite QB. I remain steadfast in that opinion. You can have all the physical tools...but are week in the 6" that matter most (between the ears)...it wont matter.

    As much as believe Henne is our franchise QB....I also know far to well, the best way to defend a pass defense, is to put the QB on his ***. The importance of having a very good QB in this league is without a doubt. And as such, we always need to develop young QB's. Always have one solid backup, and one young promising QB for development. If Henne never gets hurt, that QB can eventually be traded for a high round draft choice if teams believe he has potential.
     
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  21. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Steroids might have had something to do with Manny being a great hitter as well.....
     
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  22. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    Henne made all our wideouts better than they were projected to be. Bess, Camm, even Ginn, Hartline and the rotisserie at TE.

    He proved he can march downfield by throwing to score points.

    He can make all the throws. Albeit he needs work on the touch passes but i truely believe we will see him become better at this. To me that was rookie nerves.

    I'm quiet optimistic he's our guy. I actually would be shocked if his progression doesn't escalate at a high rate now that he's the leader on offense and this team will work around him.

    All great QB's make any one around them loook good. For instance look at Garcon and Collie in Indy. They lose one of the top wideouts in the history of the game and don't miss a beat. So sure Henne could benefit with additional talent and that talent will come. But the thing that stood out to me is all the wideouts looked better than orgiinally projected going into the year. And i really belive that was because of Henne. To me that signals we have a keeper.

    And Crunch, thanks for that theory. I never thought of it before. I don't mind the thought of doing that at all. It's all about resources in this league. So just because we may draft a qb in any of the upcomming drafts doesn't mean they don't expect Henne to be the starter but rather keep developing qb's in house for use of trade or to have some one ready to be back up or starter if things dont' work out to plan.
     
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  23. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    IMO Henne is the starter going forward. I don't think we are currently searching for a starter especially with this QB draft class.

    I do think we could use a better developmental QB. I was not a fan of the White pick b/c I didn't think he was big enough to run the WC in the pros. If we hadn't taken White I would probably favor drafting Tebow in the 2nd or 3rd. I am higher on him than most of the other QB analysts here. But as it stands I don't feel Tebow will last beyond the 1st and for us we have far greater needs.

    I would love to have CP back but not as a starter. If it's an open competition then it may undermine Henne's leadership.

    I also like Thigpen, but he's always been inconsistent. My guess is that he'll never be good enough to be a starter. He'll probably never be better than that back-up that is decent but that you'd like to upgrade.

    I expect that we'll talk to CP but not tell him what he wants to hear. Then we'll bring in a late draft pick or an UDFA QB to compete in camp.
     
  24. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    ditto!!
     
  25. dukane5

    dukane5 New Member

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    I believe we have a franchise QB as well. The first time going into the off season I have thought that since Marino retired. Pennington was great while he started, but he was a band aide only. I was not big on the Henne pick when we drafted him, but after the winning TD drive against the Jets I was sold.
    I did find myself screaming at the TV often times after a bad INT or a laser 3 yard pass that would sail over the receivers head...but, he has the tools, great composure, seems very coachable and appears to have the respect of his teammates and a good guy in the locker room.
    No more 'one more year' talk...Henne is our guy. Lets give him some guys to work with and let him lead us.
     
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  26. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    I think with Henne as our starter and Thigpen as our backup we're setup for years to come. It sucks we wasted that draft pick on Pat White but it is what it is. We finally have decent QB's.
     
  27. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    I agree with that. Every single year in a later round I'd look for a 6'3" to 6'6", 210-240 pound QB with a strong arm. Like a Tom Brady or Kevin O'Connell(now with the Jets).

    Last year I would have drafted either Mike Teel, Tom Brandstater, Keith Null or Curtis Painter. All of them were 6th round picks that made their teams. And all of them would have beaten out Pat White in a fair competition.



    The Patriots found their "Wildcat" QB/WR/PR in Julian Edelman. They took him in the 7th round 18 picks after we took linebacker JD Folsom (in a pick that once was ours).

    I hope our QBs next year are Henne, Thigpen and Pennington.

    If Pennington goes then anyone but Pat White.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010

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