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Is Brian Hartline a Deep Threat?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by shouright, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    So, my definition of "deep threat" is someone who is targeted on and catches balls that have been thrown at least 20 yards in the air at a rate that puts him among the better players in the league at those particular skills.

    In other words, if you're truly a deep threat, you're recognized by your coaching staff and quarterback as one (i.e., you're targeted on balls thrown far in the air), and you show your skill by catching those balls.

    Through a quarter of the current season, on passes thrown at least 21 yards in the air, Brian Hartline has:

    8 targets
    5 catches for 242 yards
    30.3 yards per target
    1 TD
    18.2 YPC overall (i.e., all receptions, not just ones 21+ yards in the air)

    Below is the list of the top five players in the NFL in overall yards per catch right now. I'll do the same thing with each of them I did with Brian Hartline above, to give an idea of how he compares to them as a deep threat.

    • Nate Washington (22.8 YPC overall): 3 targets on passes of 21+ yards in the air, 1 catch for 71 yards, 23.7 yards per target, 1 TD.
    • Torrey Smith (20.8 YPC overall): 14 targets, 5 catches for 189 yards, 13.5 yards per target, 1 TD.
    • Steve Smith (20.5 YPC overall): 8 targets, 3 catches for 128 yards, 16 yards per target, 0 TDs.
    • Mike Williams (19.9 YPC overall): 3 targets, 2 catches for 106 yards, 35.3 yards per target, 1 TD.
    • Jeremy Kerley (19.7 YPC overall): 3 targets, 2 catches for 67 yards, 22.3 yards per target, 0 TDs.
    Some other notables:

    • Vincent Jackson (19.0 YPC overall): 10 targets, 5 catches for 175 yards, 17.5 yards per target, 0 TDs.
    • DeSean Jackson (16.7 YPC overall): 9 targets, 2 catches for 81 yards, 9 yards per target, 0 TDs.
    • Malcom Floyd (16.7 YPC overall): 7 targets, 3 catches for 78 yards, 11.1 yards per target, 0 TDs.
    • Andre Johnson (16.8 YPC overall): 4 targets, 2 catches for 89 yards, 22.3 yards per target, 1 TD.
    • Calvin Johnson (14.6 YPC overall): 4 targets, 2 catches for 77 yards, 19.3 yards per target, 0 TDs.
    • Hakeem Nicks (16.9 YPC overall): 4 targets, 2 catches for 90 yards, 22.5 yards per target, 0 TDs.
    • AJ Green (15.9 YPC overall): 9 targets, 3 catches for 145 yards, 16.1 yards per target, 1 TD.
    • Marques Colston (16.5 YPC overall): 6 targets, 4 catches for 104 yards, 17.3 yards per target, 0 TDs.
    • Larry Fitzgerald (11.1 YPC overall): 4 targets, 1 catch for 37 yards, 9.3 yards per target, 1 TD.

    IMO Brian Hartline compares favorably to the above players. It may be too soon in the season to annoint him a consistent deep threat, though his play so far has certainly been consistent with one.
     
  2. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    catching deep balls...drawing penalties deep....the answer has to be yes
     
  3. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I believe he has led the team in YPC the past three years, but I could be wrong, but I would say yes.
     
  4. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did you happen to look up Bess's stats? :shifty:
     
  5. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Brian is currently 1st in the NFL in receptions of 40 yards or greater, and he is 5th in the NFL in receptions of 20 yards or greater.

    He is ahead of many of these players that I keep getting told have so much more ability after the catch than he does. Obviously, that lack of ability after the catch hasn't diminished his down the field production.

    Brian is a guy who I felt once he got into this offense and had a credible quarterback throwing him the ball, he would have a Jordy Nelson 2011 type breakout year, and he is well on his way to doing that.
     
  6. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Gut says borderline. Stats say yes.

    I want to see it over a whole season now.

    I think, with how complete a receiver Brian is, you could get away with pairing him with another complete receiver as opposed to a pure deep threat as some suggest we need.

    Honestly, if we had another Brian Hartline who was slightly better with speed, hands and YAC (and I mean even slightly) then we'd have a great receiving corps.

    We just need one more well rounded guy.

    To me, the key for a receiver to be successful in a WCO is way more about consistency of routes than about dominant speed or physical traits.
     
  7. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    When is Hartline's contract up?
     
  8. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Like I just said in the other thread, we need to give credit to Tannehill / the o line pass pro / the offensive coordinator (mostly for calling the right plays) for this offensive explosion. Sure, right now he appears to be a deep threat. Lets see how the other 12 games go before crowning him though. Hey imagine how much faster he'd be if he shaved the lip fluff / goatee off?

    ON a side note... do you guys think our #83 Mark Clayton was a "deep threat?" Afterall, he supposedly only had 4.63 speed. yet he caught his share of bombs down the sidelines. Just like Duper who ran in the 4.2's... just throwing that out there :wink2:
     
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  9. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    This year.
     
  10. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    He's always been one, going back to OSU.
     
  11. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    no. a deep threat doesn't need a double move or a blown coverage to get open deep. if Hartline was a deep threat we probably wouldn't have needed to draft Gates.
     
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  12. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    thats a ridiculous statement
     
  13. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Heartline's increased statistical output is directly related with this type of offense, and Tannehill's own skills; but also, his own very developed ability to run good routes.

    IMO he is not a dominant deep threat. He will never be fast enough to outrun corners, and he will suffer for lack of physicality if covered physically and closely by a good cover corner.

    His very good routes coupled with the precise fast passing of this offense and Tannehill will get him free often, which is what makes him such a solid player, but he will never be confused for an elite deep threat, which is what someone might deduce looking at his stats.
     
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  14. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    His last game was his best as a pro ,but to be the best he has to bring it every week.Hope this is not a fluke and he continues to improve each game.It is great to see have a good game ,I don't think many saw that comeing.
     
  15. PhinsPhan11

    PhinsPhan11 Phins & Philly Sports

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    At this point I would have to say he's a deep threat.
     
  16. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    This. Hartline has always been able to get behind defenses, its just been a matter of the QB getting him the ball.

    The reality is that the guy has tremendous technique. It is why he was such a great hurdler. He doesn't waste movement at all when he is running. He has great agility. Not to mention he's been labeled as "brilliant". Guys like that are pretty rare.

    Certainly there is something to be said about the small sample size this season. But him getting open behind defenses isn't anything new. The only thing that is new is him having a QB that looks for him and delivers the ball.
     
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  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    His increased statistical output is directly related to Miami not having to try to force feed Brandon Marshall.

    His deep yard statistics have been pretty consistent through out his career.

    He might not be "elite" like some people are trying to say people are saying, however he is a good deep threat.
     
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Who is saying he is the best?
     
  19. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Of course it is.

    The guys playing best, except Long, are all in contract years. What does that tell you?

    Man, I respect Wake for being as driven as he is even once the money is in the bank,
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No of course not he ran a 4.58. Everything he has done is basically a combination of pity and negligence from defenses.

    Deep threats are guys who score more than 5 long touchdowns a year on streak routes vs Cover-2 man or straight double teams, excluding those that involved play action.
     
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  21. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I agree that his elevated stats are partially a function of fewer other options in the receiving game. I am concerned about overpaying him, adding other weapons, then under using him compared to his paycheck.
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That definitely deserves a LOL
     
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  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    This isn't really anything new for Hartline. He is getting open deep, but he was doing that before. It was just a matter of Matt Moore forcing the ball to Marshall, or Chad Henne not being capable of accurately throwing a deep ball.
     
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  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am concerned about overpaying any player.

    Even if he breaks Rice's record this year I highly doubt he would ask for top 5 money. If he does, Miami should move on.
     
  25. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Does Brian Hartline force teams to game plan for him? I dont see him quite being that type of player...but he doesnt have to be. I think he is a threat to go deep.....but I wouldnt label him as a deep threat. Put it this way....I still want dyed in the wool...no question, number one WR.....but..I appreciate the job Hartline has done, and I dont feel like wanting a stud #1 WR diminishes Hartline in any way
     
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  26. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Yes. I like him more as a cheap threat.
     
  27. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Well, if he put up 1200 yards and 7 or 8 TDs or more this season then yes... DCs will start game planning him. They will know Hartline can beat Corners with technique. The solution would be to press him, squat his routes and dedicate a safety to him over the top. Bracket him all game, or at least on passing downs.

    The thing is, I'm not convinced he will keep this pace up.
     
  28. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Well then perhaps he ought to be confused for one.
     
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  29. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Always go with objective evidence, when it's available, over your gut.
     
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  30. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    I know you like to go against the grain sometimes... but I cannot tell if you're serious or sarcastic.
     
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  31. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You can't really just devote to double-teaming someone though. There really are only one or two guys that get that type of treatment. Defenses are going to adjust for what opponents do, but in the context of the entire team. Also, Brian Hartline is great against press coverage.
     
  32. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Many a lemon has been sold thusly.
     
  33. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Caustic?
     
  34. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Oh I know. I agree on both counts.

    But if he was averaging 90 yards and 1 TD a game down the stretch, would you play him single and concede that?

    If you double, you know he beats press, but the safety has him deep and the jam disrupts any short patterns.

    Of course Bess and Bush, and hopefully a TE could feast on the one high safety look.
     
  35. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    What no poll?

    come on...this is clearly a YES, NO, MAYBE, UnDECIDED significant issue.:tongue2:
     
  36. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's being sarcastic.
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's two ways to get deep, explosive and fast...Intelligent and deceptive.

    We starting to see here how a man with intelligence is accomplishing the same objective with it..

    Example...the deek put on that boy from Arizona for fifty...there was no contact throughout the route, Hart used his eyes and shoulders and got lost in the moment...dude bought it, Hartline goes deep.

    He's literally fu$) in with dudes heads..lol
     
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  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He even thanked it...lol
     
  39. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, but is he a deep throat?
     
  40. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    If Hartline can continue threatening defenses deep, I'm interested to see the effect perhaps of Gaffney's becoming the possession receiver, and Bess's moving to the slot. That may in fact do the trick as far as the receiving corps goes.
     

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