Ireland: Vernon is going to get much, much better

If Bush really wants to come back to Miami that badly I would hope they could find a place for him on the team and come to an agreement on a reasonable deal. The impact he can have on games can't be denied.

 

1) It would be great if Vernon stepped his game up. The Phins need another guy who can add pressure from the outside.

2) It's obvious that the Phins interest to bring back Bush is tepid, at best. I think he's gone. I think a good spot for him to land is Detroit, although I know nothing of their cap situation.

 

Not holding my breath. Would love to see them move him inside on pass rush downs a la Wallace Gilberry.

 

I wouldn't be very confident going into the season with Miller and Thomas as our backs.
Miller is still mostly a mystery and Thomas is trash.

 

Maybe Ireland's got wood for Mike Goodson.....one can hope ;p Either that or he is looking for a tough between the tackles runner to replace Thomas/Compliment Miller with.

That should say it all about any rumors coming out on our own FA's.

 

We really should retain Reggie B

And I like Baby Squid's game, once again more than most do.

 

I don't understand why Vernon has been so largely written off. He was pretty widely understood to be raw in terms of pass-rushing moves coming out, and his performance in that area this year really shouldn't be such that they cast doubts on his career.

He pretty clearly bit as a rookie, though. He might be more Anthony Spencer than Demarcus Ware, but that's ok.

I also think there's a pretty good chance that Derrick Shelby is a pretty good football player. He seemed to slump at the end of the year, but the guy seemed like he was close to the quarterback a lot early on relative to his snap count.

 

Derrick Shelby could be a pretty good football player. He and Olivier Vernon are similar with the primary difference between the two being that the coaches already have very little expectations of Shelby in pass rush whereas with Vernon that's probably going to be a process before they figure it out.

 

I think it's probably time to check yourself if you're subtly bragging about waiting for professional NFL coaches to catch on to something you decided was true what, like September of last year?

 

Has nothing to do with bragging. It's just reality. They still believe in Olivier Vernon's ability to be a good pass rusher from an end position. I don't, and I think I'm going to end up right.

Hey if you think we should all bow and scrape to NFL coaches and evaluators and take their word on everything, never disagree with them and swallow whatever they think whole, that's your prerogative.

 

I hope Vernon is being groomed as Misi's replacement so we can spend Koa's future contract elsewhere. Vernon seems a tad more athletic and with better pass rush potential, not by much, but better is still better. My 2 cents.

 

It's been said before by a couple of folks including myself, this kid is very very strong..when you see him in person you notice the thickness of his joints, and the width of his shoulders, hips and thighs..if he does this right this offseason, with wake all day teaching him how to work out, pass rush moves, that's exciting to me..I also said this in camp, this is a tough sob..he really wants to be a good football player.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Vernon to improve. This is a guy with not a lot of games under his belt even at the college level. He also began his career under a Randy Shannon coaching staff which means he wasn't getting the coaching he needed as a young player. One would hope being coached by one of the best line coaches in the NFL in Kacy Rodgers and getting to pick the brain of one of the best defensive players in the NFL will get the most out of him.

 

I think what could help Vernon is the fact Coyle likes to mix up the way he brings pressure, including frequently rushing extra defenders. I'm not certain he'll become a great pass rusher, but I could see him being more effective in Coyle's scheme than in a 4 man front constantly lined up at 7 or 9 technique. Perhaps lining him up inside like you said.

 

I think you will end up being wrong on Vernon, when I see OV I see great ankle flexion and decent speed/power/speed

The one caveat is they will be very tempted to use him at Lb instead of De which means less pass rushing chances.

 

He should definitely improve. That's not in question. But even improving, I doubt he'll ever be a good pass rusher from end.

 

Did that article just say Lamar Miller is more talented than Reggie Bush? lulz. Maybe one day... But that day isn't today.

 

Sounds like Ireland is getting ready to cut him.

 

Slow feet.
Wishful thinking GM.

Same old **** sure to come out of Ireland's draft anus this April the way it's sounding.

Yep, no worries folks. We have Olivier Vernon at rush end for the next ten years. No need to prioritize a DE.

In other news, Odrick is the prototypical DE apparently.

(Misuse = abuse. Our posters are better assessors of our resources and draft picks than our own team)

 

You may safely substitute the word 'know' for doubt.

 

Vernon can play, imo he's already shown more raw athleticism than Koa Misi

But overall..spot on, most fans were rose colored glasses when it comes to what the team puts out vis a vis players

We know better.

 

It's not the idea that NFL coaches and evaluators are in infallible, because they clearly aren't. It's not really even so much your relative lack of qualifications, either. It's that you've set the Dolphins coaches up as straw men for what you seem to believe will be your own self-aggrandizement. You have no idea what the Dolphins coaches actually think about Olivier Vernon, but you've got no problems assigning them a convenient position. The Dolphins coaches will believe Olivier Vernon(Who like any draft pick is more likely than not to fail), and you're brave and smart enough to claim otherwise based on...?

 

I do expect Vernon to improve significantly, but doubt he'll ever be considered a great pass rusher. I don't think he has that killer first step and I don't see any other area where he'll be so superlative that he could compensate as a pass rusher. I think his strength will allow him to excel at setting the edge, but I don't see the ability to use that leverage to get past the blocker. I do think he can become decent at coverage in the short zones and very good against the run. I think we need another quick twitch rusher opposite Wake and I hope that we won't expect Vernon to fill that role.

 

I guess it depends on your interpretation of good, but I think he can be a good enough pass rusher where he can be a solid to good starting/rotational DE that can be moved around.

 

What I see in his game is the Wakelike rubber ankles, and a good, not great, speed/power combination.

His problem looks like once he ets his hands into the tackle's chest, he does not then have a nature "shed" move, he sort of looks like "okay got the chest, he is off balance, now what"?

 

Easy to expect progress from 2nd year players. Vernon has the athleticism and strength to make a drastic jump forward IMO...

Trace Armstrong was one of the few exceptions I can remember who actually grew into a good pass rusher. Usually you can tell right away.

 

This is really just a whole lot of hogwash and projection based on not a lot. The Dolphins still like Olivier Vernon and think he can develop as a pass rusher. Given the things they have said about him, the fact that they drafted him in the 3rd round, and the way they used him all through the year from start to finish, acting like I'm making some huge assumption that they still like him to develop as a pass rusher is disingenuous at best. Your entire line of argument and discussion is totally off topic and just a reach for a personal attack.

 

"Cameron Wake said he will spend time this offseason teaching Vernon more pass-rush moves."

In my opinion this mean absolutely nothing. Yes, it says a lot about Cam Wake but who is questioning the guys work ethic or his "team" ideal? I'm not. The guy is a machine who got everything he has through hard *** work. It also says something about Vernon wanting to get better.

That said, is Cam Wake going to teach Vernon his quick twitch, out of this World athleticism and the ability to do things that very few people can? No. Cam Wake does not have "moves" he can transfer through teaching and tips. He has moves because he is a ridiculous athlete and does things maybe a half dozen guys in the league can do.

I don't have high hopes for Vernon. He looked like "just a guy" to me. I hope I'm wrong. I also hope that Ireland is not banking on him breaking out and ignoring our need for another edge pass rusher, that would be a disaster.

 

Carve this into a granite tablet and set it atop Dolphins HQ for all to see please, because this is deeply true on all counts. I could not have said it better myself.

Long term, it would be great to see Vernon moved to SOLB behind Misi, with a true DE opposite Wake.

 

Prepare to practice how you cope with disappointment.

 

Pretty much agree, I just dont see OV as a passrusher… it just is not his game. Having said that, I love the kid. I think he is just one of those guys that comes up with a big play just when you need him to.

 

He showed a little bit of that last year, coming up with the right play in the right moment.

 

good thing it is early February and we are not playing football. In the long run I think Miller is going to turn out to be a great NFL RB… Leaps and bounds ahead of Bush..

 

Oh I do, keep in mind even Matt Roth developed into a passrusher and OV has more raw athleticism to work with imo

Roth was surprisingly athletic, but not on OV's level

 

I just dont see the quickness needed BUT hey, I could be wrong. Everyone knows he was raw coming out. He was productive to a certain degree even though he was raw. I see him getting better and being a key member of this team going forward. If it is at DE (which I dont see) or OLB which I totally see.

 

I think what will happen with him is "Vernon moving to SOLB"

Which on paper will limit his passrushing chances

 

What I like about this, is that the Dolphins' tradition continues when you have Trace Armstrong teaching JT who then teaches Wake and so on.