Inflation, the hidden tax that crushes the poor and middle class

"joeydolfan wrote:

Funny you mention this Padre as I have been hammering this point to clients for years on how the the CPI numbers no longer reflect for actual inflation......

Food and energy are 2 of the largest costs to consumers yet you remove it from the core CPI number?

That was bullshyte all along on the Governments part......

BTW... put me in the woods with a rifle and a fishing pole and I can tell you my family will eat....

Exactly, they did create the "real" inflation index, but that is not accurate, you have to hope someone who blogs has access to Shadowstats.

Trot Lines..and apple jack...:lol::shifty:

"padre31 wrote:

Exactly, they did create the "real" inflation index, but that is not accurate, you have to hope someone who blogs has access to Shadowstats.

Trot Lines..and apple jack...:lol::shifty:

:lol:Oh, I remember the days.

"Themole wrote:

:lol:Oh, I remember the days.

Apparently I am on the outside looking in for this one.........

What does that mean or am I showing my age by asking?

"joeydolfan wrote:

Apparently I am on the outside looking in for this one.........

What does that mean or am I showing my age by asking?

No joey, probably show your good sense. Apple Jack, was a popular (might still be) loose leaf chewing tobacco.

"Themole wrote:

No joey, probably show your good sense. Apple Jack, was a popular (might still be) loose leaf chewing tobacco.

Never heard of that one...... Good thing I dont chew.... :lol:

"Themole wrote:

No joey, probably show your good sense. Apple Jack, was a popular (might still be) loose leaf chewing tobacco.

Well it's that, it's also when one takes apple cider and "jacks it up" by freezing after adding one of the backwoods distillers main ingredients..:lol:

"padre31 wrote:

Well it's that, it's also when one takes apple cider and "jacks it up" by freezing after adding one of the backwoods distillers main ingredients..:lol:

Now that one I would be interested in.... have a recipe? :lol:

"padre31 wrote:

Well it's that, it's also when one takes apple cider and "jacks it up" by freezing after adding one of the backwoods distillers main ingredients..:lol:

I've only drank apple cider thrice in my life. Fresh and in the Canadian Rockies. Very good stuff.

Now, the other stuff you refer to, I've had bad to very fine.

"joeydolfan wrote:

Now that one I would be interested in.... have a recipe? :lol:

http://huntergathercook.type/huntergathering_wild_fres/2009/03/back-to-the-brewing-playing-with-apple-juice.html

:wink2:

"padre31 wrote:

[

A few things are omitted, but there it is, save some bucks I suppose but you need fresh cider, without preservatives and preferably unpasteurized..:shifty:

:wink2:

Nice site. So that's where "The Last Whole Earth Catalog and Mother Earth News" migrated to.

"Themole wrote:

Nice site. So that's where "The Last Whole Earth Catalog and Mother Earth News" migrated to.

Probably, it's in the UK though.

One of the benefits of the internet is there is a tremendous amount of information out on the web that can be used if times get hard, the problem is quality control and motivation.

Americans just no longer put out that sort of effort as a whole, as late as the mid 70's and Gerald R Ford's WIN (whip inflation now) program there were modern Victory Gardens being raised in the US, that trend dwindled until the last 3 years when a sudden explosion in seed sales has happened.

Very American, complete apathy, then total panic when problems come knocking on the front door.

"padre31 wrote:

Probably, it's in the UK though.

One of the benefits of the internet is there is a tremendous amount of information out on the web that can be used if times get hard, the problem is quality control and motivation.

Americans just no longer put out that sort of effort as a whole, as late as the mid 70's and Gerald R Ford's WIN (whip inflation now) program there were modern Victory Gardens being raised in the US, that trend dwindled until the last 3 years when a sudden explosion in seed sales has happened.

Very American, complete apathy, then total panic when problems come knocking on the front door.

We still grow em here in rural north Florida Padre. Gardens grown in these sandhills require a lot of water but they sure do makeup well.

"Themole wrote:

We still grow em here in rural north Florida Padre. Gardens grown in these sandhills require a lot of water but they sure do makeup well.

Really? This might be of interest to you then:

http://organicgardening.about.com/b/2009/03/12/how-much-is-your-garden-worth.htm

They found that over the course of a six month gardening season, they grew 834 pounds of organic produce. When price checked against their local grocers, they found that their produce would have cost approximately $2,200. Two grand is certainly nothing to sneeze at! I love that he and his wife made a concerted effort to figure it all out, because while many people are considering growing food to save money, I think very few actually realize the impact a garden can have on their budget. Of course, you'll have to invest money up front for seeds and plants, as well as garden tools and such if you haven't gardened before. Even after these expenses, the amount of money saved through growing your own can be significant.

Not bad, and as prices rise and quality falls, that 2,200 will only grow larger.

Plus there is a nice feeling of accomplishment when you grow your own.

In the UK, which is going through a much more severe time then we in the States are dealing with, there is a two year waiting list to garden in the London City set aside plots of land..two years...that is astounding.

My quibble with it is, if one is a professional like a doctor then the time spent gardening is actually underproductive, if one can bill 200 dollars per visit then that couple of hours a week seems like money loser unless one is just a fan of organic veggies.

When I was a wee lad in SW Florida, there used to be orange trees and grapefruit trees all over the place, now the area is so developed that is a quaint notion of yesteryear.

"padre31 wrote:

Really? This might be of interest to you then:

http://organicgardening.about.com/b/2009/03/12/how-much-is-your-garden-worth.htm

Not bad, and as prices rise and quality falls, that 2,200 will only grow larger.

Plus there is a nice feeling of accomplishment when you grow your own.

In the UK, which is going through a much more severe time then we in the States are dealing with, there is a two year waiting list to garden in the London City set aside plots of land..two years...that is astounding.

My quibble with it is, if one is a professional like a doctor then the time spent gardening is actually underproductive, if one can bill 200 dollars per visit then that couple of hours a week seems like money loser unless one is just a fan of organic veggies.

When I was a wee lad in SW Florida, there used to be orange trees and grapefruit trees all over the place, now the area is so developed that is a quaint notion of yesteryear.

Thanks Padre, I now have the page bookmarked and will get back to it for a closer look.

A friend of mine has been trying to get me into hydroponics. He sent me pictures of his garden that really produce a good yield from a very small amount of space. The plants are grown in PVC and are gorgeous.

It's been a while since I was in SW Fl. I can remember traveling through Clermont, where once was beautiful groves of orange and grapefruits. Like you said, they have turned all that into subdivisions.

"Themole wrote:

Thanks Padre, I now have the page bookmarked and will get back to it for a closer look.

A friend of mine has been trying to get me into hydroponics. He sent me pictures of his garden that really produce a good yield from a very small amount of space. The plants are grown in PVC and are gorgeous.

Pricey though.

It's been a while since I was in SW Fl. I can remember traveling through Clermont, where once was beautiful groves of orange and grapefruits. Like you said, they have turned all that into subdivisions.

Haven't heard of Clermont, at least not off hand, I used to stomp around the Ft Myers up to Clearwater area though, iirc, Clermont may be in that area? It's been 20 years, maybe more.

Apparently, the next shoe to drop in the great unraveling is Credit Card debt, and to me that is the most serious issue, nearly everyone has a credit card and when those defaults start destroying the value of the CDS and other exotice financial instruments, things will get downright ugly.

Let BoA or Citi collapse and all the people who have their cards won't be able to purchase anything, and there will be no Bank to step in and offer new lines of credit, that will grind things to a standstill when millions suddenly have to rely on cash to buy anything.

A most enjoyable read guys. Not about inflation of course but about growing things. Of late I've returned to TV to watch the rediscovery of the Family garden. There was a program the other day about a Landscaper in CA who is showing people just how to set up their gardens on their front and back lawns. One family of 6 not only fed themselves but had made over $2000.00 this last season. Quite a nice feat, don't you think?

JMHO but I think its time to hunker down and reload all you can and at the same time make sure you've got 4 bricks on 22LR on hand. And get the fishing gear in shape.:up::hi5:

"Themole wrote:

We still grow em here in rural north Florida Padre. Gardens grown in these sandhills require a lot of water but they sure do makeup well.

What part of North Florida Bro? My parents live on 20 acres in right outside of Marriana in the panhandle......

Its about a 45 minute drive directly North of Panama City and about 20 minutes drive south of Dothan Alabama....

My family has been on me to move up there and with my parents health beginning to get worse over the years it is something I may have to consider....

They have a huge garden but are unable to plant and tend to it... Plenty of deer on the property and wild Turkey as well...

My stepfather raises Wild Turkeys and releases them on the property...

"joeydolfan wrote:

What part of North Florida Bro? My parents live on 20 acres in right outside of Marriana in the panhandle......

Its about a 45 minute drive directly North of Panama City and about 20 minutes drive south of Dothan Alabama....

My family has been on me to move up there and with my parents health beginning to get worse over the years it is something I may have to consider....

They have a huge garden but are unable to plant and tend to it... Plenty of deer on the property and wild Turkey as well...

My stepfather raises Wild Turkeys and releases them on the property...

I'm in Palatka, Joey. I know Marianna well though. We (my wife) have 33 acres on Holmes Creek right out side of Vernon. Like you say, plenty of deer turkey and occasional cayote there and a nice beautiful pristine creek that flows all the way to the gulf to fish from. We spend our Thanksgiving Holidays there every year. It plus another 30 acres belonging to my wifes aunt is all that's left of their families old homestead.

Panama City, is building their new international airport between Vernon and Lynnhaven, so things will be changing a great deal in that area.

Maybe this is incendiary but my long-term girlfriend and I are both considering purchasing firearms for just these reasons. She's much more pessimistic about the future than I am and has been reading about inflation for the past year. I don't 100% support that fiat money will force us to return to an age of pipe stoves but I would be reckless to not be prepared.

"Lab3003 wrote:

Maybe this is incendiary but my long-term girlfriend and I are both considering purchasing firearms for just these reasons. She's much more pessimistic about the future than I am and has been reading about inflation for the past year. I don't 100% support that fiat money will force us to return to an age of pipe stoves but I would be reckless to not be prepared.

I don't know why you would think it would be incendiary Lab. Looks like most everyone in this thread share the same degree of concern as you and your girlfriend.

There is nothing wrong with being prepared. In fact it is very wise.

As long people have FAITH in fiat money, it works. But, it is backed by nothing but faith and can be manipulated through inflation to burden it's users with hidden taxation and total control of an economy. IMMHO.

"Lab3003 wrote:

Maybe this is incendiary but my long-term girlfriend and I are both considering purchasing firearms for just these reasons. She's much more pessimistic about the future than I am and has been reading about inflation for the past year. I don't 100% support that fiat money will force us to return to an age of pipe stoves but I would be reckless to not be prepared.

Well Lab, I'm personally in favor of every household having a firearm ALONG WITH the knowledge on how to operate them and how to store them safely.

As for a Dyostopia, that's doubtful, while true tensions rise when the economy tanks, America isn't heading to a Escape from NY society anytime soon.

What should be kept in mind though, is inflationary pressures will be a fact of life for a long time and financial decisions should be based on that reality along with a much more hostile taxation environment on every level, from City to County to State to Federal and oddball fees like the DMV or the Water Bill will be going one way...upwards..at least at a 4% clip a year.

"padre31 wrote:

Well Lab, I'm personally in favor of every household having a firearm ALONG WITH the knowledge on how to operate them and how to store them safely.

As for a Dyostopia, that's doubtful, while true tensions rise when the economy tanks, America isn't heading to a Escape from NY society anytime soon.

What should be kept in mind though, is inflationary pressures will be a fact of life for a long time and financial decisions should be based on that reality along with a much more hostile taxation environment on every level, from City to County to State to Federal and oddball fees like the DMV or the Water Bill will be going one way...upwards..at least at a 4% clip a year.

I totally agree with you! I've been personally responsible for handling firearms since I was eight years old. I was taught by my father who was taught by his father. I can remember the first rule he gave me. "There is no such thing as an unloaded weapon". Nothing unsafe about owning firearms that using common sense won't cure.

Padre,do you believe that 4% increase a year on services will continue until the people of this country rebel once again and demand a return to sound money based on precious metals? Citizens would hard pressed to gain confidence in an economy backed with fiat money after experiencing run away inflation like you described. Our monetary system has to be anchored to something of value.

"Themole wrote:

I totally agree with you! I've been personally responsible for handling firearms since I was eight years old. I was taught by my father who was taught by his father. I can remember the first rule he gave me. "There is no such thing as an unloaded weapon". Nothing unsafe about owning firearms that using common sense won't cure.

Exactly, to me simply purchasing a firearm and a couple of boxes of ammunition and then shoving them into the closet and thinking "that's covered" is very very unwise, the local NRA will offer safety courses for 25 dollars, the CCW course is also generally inexpensive, it is simple prudence to learn how to safely handle a firearm if there is no one around to teach you then professionals are ready, willing, able and happy to help first time firearms purchasers.

Padre,do you believe that 4% increase a year on services will continue until the people of this country rebel once again and demand a return to sound money based on precious metals? Citizens would hard pressed to gain confidence in an economy backed with fiat money after experiencing run away inflation like you described. Our monetary system has to be anchored to something of value.

No, there will be no "revolt for sound money" as Americans know far more about "Global Warming" then they do about sound money principles or the effects of inflationary fiat policies.

The few educated people are always overwhelmed by the masses who "just want the economy fixed"

To give an example, the NBC/GE/Universal networks are once again running a week long propaganda campaign touting "green tech" there is no similar effort explaining sound money principles, there is a reason why people don't realize their money is being robbed of value...no one in mass media talks about the issue consistently.

"padre31 wrote:

Exactly, to me simply purchasing a firearm and a couple of boxes of ammunition and then shoving them into the closet and thinking "that's covered" is very very unwise, the local NRA will offer safety courses for 25 dollars, the CCW course is also generally inexpensive, it is simple prudence to learn how to safely handle a firearm if there is no one around to teach you then professionals are ready, willing, able and happy to help first time firearms purchasers.

No, there will be no "revolt for sound money" as Americans know far more about "Global Warming" then they do about sound money principles or the effects of inflationary fiat policies.

The few educated people are always overwhelmed by the masses who "just want the economy fixed"

To give an example, the NBC/GE/Universal networks are once again running a week long propaganda campaign touting "green tech" there is no similar effort explaining sound money principles, there is a reason why people don't realize their money is being robbed of value...no one in mass media talks about the issue consistently.

Padre, there is no way, no way this nation could have been brought to it's economic knees like we have seen happen for the past 45 years. Unless someone had a plan to bring us to this point. Where has the forth estate been? Weren't they the keepers of the gate, if congress didn't do it's job? I think there might be a ray of hope, yet. Print and broadcast media are loosing viewer ship and subscriptions because the masses no longer have trust in what the MSM is selling. Information from the Internet is fast replacing them. Of course that could open up a whole new can of worms of who you might trust for information. I have a few sites I trust implicitly, that preach the gospel of Constitutional Sovereignty, but the MSM attack them as being wacko. Now you've seen my soul.:cry:

"Themole wrote:

Padre, there is no way, no way this nation could have been brought to it's economic knees like we have seen happen for the past 45 years. Unless someone had a plan to bring us to this point. Where has the forth estate been? Weren't they the keepers of the gate, if congress didn't do it's job? I think there might be a ray of hope, yet. Print and broadcast media are loosing viewer ship and subscriptions because the masses no longer have trust in what the MSM is selling. Information from the Internet is fast replacing them. Of course that could open up a whole new can of worms of who you might trust for information. I have a few sites I trust implicitly, that preach the gospel of Constitutional Sovereignty, but the MSM attack them as being wacko. Now you've seen my soul.:cry:

No worries Tm, Rand's Atlas Shrugged has enjoyed a resurgence and most young folks love the idea of "change" when in fact, they will suffer the most from it, once those gray hairs start popping out and the tax bills roll in, times will be "changing" once again.

And the MSM will attack anyone who is a threat to their monopoly on opinion making.

To quote Gandhi's biographer

"first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win"

To me, sound money is worth fighting for in the arena of honest intellectual debate.