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I REALLY like this team

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by mlb1399, Dec 13, 2020.

  1. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Tough loss but there were so many positives.

    In FLO I trust. He'll run across the field if you mess with his players. He's got WR's and RB's that no one has heard of besides their moms playing solid football. This team fought until the bitter end. Previous teams would have packed it in when we were down big. That's a sign of good coaching.

    The X Factor. Patrick Surtain might have something to say about best Dolphins CB ever but no one has been better at taking it away. Hated the facemask towards the end but man he's a baller.

    This defense is legit. They only gave up 24 points against a team that scores 31 a game. All the while our offense couldnt doing anything. They forced 4 turn overs against a team that just doesnt do that.

    Every week we see a new player step up. Last week it was Van Noy. This week it was Baker.

    Give Tua some weapons. I've been hard on him this season but I really liked what i've seen the last couple of weeks. He still makes some mistakes but he is progressing.

    I hope that Gesicki is ok because he has really turned a corner. He's a legitimate playmaker to build around.

    This draft class might be the best one ever. It's still early but we have so many guys playing and contributing.

    I really think this offseason will be about trying to get our offense to catch up to our defense or at least not be a liability. We need a dependable #1 WR. We need a starting RB. I think our OL will get better with experience.

    Our fanbase has been through so much but that future is looking bright. It might even be bright this year. #finup
     
  2. thetylernator

    thetylernator You're as cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

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    Tua is making chicken salad out of chicken ****. We had no business making that a game after being down 30-10 against the best team in the NFL, plagued by injuries/COVID, and bereft of talent on offense--yet he drove us down the field with poise, accuracy, and leadership for 17 4th-quarter points to give our team a chance at the end. I feel bad that he didn't get the help he deserves, but the future is bright with him, Flo', and this defense.

    Get him some weapons and watch the sparks fly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2020
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  3. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I only have a couple of points:

    1. Tua is the real deal and I couldn't be happier. The ball comes out quick and there were only a few bad passes today. Assuming the O-line gets better over the off-season, I think he's going to show out next year.

    2. We lost because of injuries more than anything. I believe the loss of Van Noy was huge today. I'd submit that we would have won had we had Gaskin or Ahmed. Starting a fourth string RB against the best team in the league is tough. Forget the fact that Preston Williams would been greatly beneficial today. Losing players makes you lose dynamism and it's encouraging that we played as well as we did with the players who were available.

    3. I think that with a year of development and a real training camp, our rookies are going to truly blow up next season. If we can add a true vertical threat on the edge, things will truly change. And watch out if we can get a running back capable of getting chunks on a consistent basis.
     
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  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Take that Gary Stevens! It can be done.
     
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  5. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Going to need to improve the offense just a tremendous, tremendous amount to be competitive with the Chiefs for a Super Bowl during the Mahomes era.

    Consider that the Chiefs won on the losing end of a 4-1 turnover margin. Dating back to 2018, there have been 81 regular season games with a turnover margin of 3. The team on the winning end of that +3 turnover margin has won 72 of them -- 89%.

    The Chiefs had a mere 11% chance of winning that game today on the basis of turnover margin, and they did anyway.

    How did they do that? Obviously with offense. They averaged 7.3 yards per play to the Dolphins' 4.8. They averaged 11.6 yards per pass (which is astronomical) to the Dolphins' 6.4 (which is below average).

    So this team is going to need to amass a great deal more talent on offense -- as well as more on defense -- to be able to come out of the AFC and play in the Super Bowl. They're going to need to move the ball better and contain Mahomes and company better, because they won't enjoy a 4-1 turnover margin every time they play this team.
     
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  6. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Another 3dwn LB would be nice and maybe a Safety + another pass rusher wouldn’t hurt. Can’t wait for next season.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
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  7. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Love the defense. They did what they could but Mahomes is able to see even a slight mistake. 9 points wasn’t on them.

    Tua under a lot of pressure all day. Had a decent game and the offense never gave it. Even though it felt like the game was out of reach they fought back with the ultimate next man up.

    I didn’t think we were into our progression as a team to take down KC right now but you can see the team playing for Flores.

    Moving on the the Patriots. Beat those F’ers next week please.
     
  8. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Football comes down to the smallest things. The missed field goal and the safety were the most significant plays in today's game. Those 5 points were huge. I knew they were going to cost us in the end.
     
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  9. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

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    An OLine that contains three rookies and can protect a rookie QB as well as it does is very impressive, especially as one of its starters, Ereck Flowers, was missing.

    The contract we gave to Byron Jones looks like money well spent. He and the X-man have formed a brilliant CB tandem and with a supporting cast that includes Bobby McCain and Nik Needham, the secondary must be one of the best out there.

    The linebackers, while not outstanding, are very solid and come up with big plays every week Kyle van Noy, Andrew van Ginkel and Jerome Baker have all been excellent.

    I love the DLinen Christian Wilkins is possibly my favourite current Dolphin. He always seems like he’s having fun out on the field. Emmanuel Ogbah, Shaq Lawson and Zack Sieler have all made an impression on me. And many opponents too!

    With so many receivers and RBS out, the TEs are taking on a heavy load at the moment. Mike Gesicki, Adam Shaheen and Durham Smythe are all coming up with big plays. Some of their catches have been phenomenal.

    I’m really optimistic about the future of this franchise. Some had grave doubts about Brian Flores and Chris Grier, but they are proving the doubters wrong. This is still a very young football team, and it is clearly improving week by week.

    I know we’re still a way off the standards set by Pittsburg and Kansas City, but if we can continue to improve like we have over the course of the season, we could soon be challenging them.
     
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  10. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The defense has been the biggest surprised to me. First couple of games it looked like Boyer was in way over his head. Now though? My gosh this defense is special. The problem though is they put us in a position to dominate this game today and we didn't because our offense is so incompetent and inconsistent for long stretches. We just lack talent on that side of the ball.

    This team though is going to be special I think once Flores and Greir take this offseason to build the offense around Tua like they built the defense last year along with the OL. Tua is starting to show flashes; he's still getting caught/confused quite a bit; but he's only played 6 games. Put some playmakers around him and look out. We're going to be making some real noise sooner rather than later.

    The job that Flores and Greir have done so far though is nothing short of incredible. They tore this thing down to the ground, and have already built us to a playoff contender in the span of less than two seasons. That's impressive and encouraging.
     
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  11. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Crazy to think that this roster was gutted last season. In FLO I trust.
     
  12. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    When’s the last time we had this much love for a coach???
     
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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm pretty sure I was the biggest doubter here when it came to Flores/Grier (mainly Grier and his promise of "perennial playoff contender"), but so far Flores has 100% proven me wrong and Grier does have us on the right path. What Flores has done in two seasons, basically with two completely different rookie squads, is nothing short of a miracle and he absolutely deserves coach of the year.

    I'm still reserving judgement on Grier but darn, it's hard to see next year's squad going south without really botching the draft. As long as we grab a couple stud WR's and a stud RB early on (Etienne is a MUST HAVE for me), this is going to be a powerhouse team.
     
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  14. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

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    As Jim Nantz pointed out in the commentary, tonight was like Tua's second game, considering he had no preseason.

    I noticed that he has already got a lot smarter when he has to throw the ball away; he didn’t make the same mistakes against the Chiefs that we saw him make in previous ones.
     
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  15. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Greer is benefiting from Flores as a talent evaluator. Although he did pick Mika and Tunsil in the draft before. Those 2 were parlayed into this draft. And next one.
     
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  16. plc001

    plc001 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know if we even need studs, it would be nice and with our draft stock there’s no reason we shouldn’t meet a few of those needs, but if anything today showed us 1) Tua is the real deal, 2) we saw what this team can do with multiple TE sets and it was awesome even with the average joes we were rolling with 3) with this defense we will compete with anybody. 4) how did we lose to Denver!!!
     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Umm, like Mahommes and his 30 yard sack? The exact same situation unfolded on Tua late in the 3rd (or early 4th) and he was smart enough to release it quickly on a throw-away. There were a lot of small things today that really impressed me about Tua and changed my mind some on how "ready" he is today. He was tearing through those reads even early on when we weren't moving the ball much.

    To have that kind of game with 2nd and 3rd string receivers, with Grant dropping two likely TD passes deep, I was very impressed overall.
     
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  18. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree. That was an interesting point by Nantz too; one that probably gets over looked alot too by most of us.

    I can't really fault any of Tua's decisions today. Some of the throws themselves maybe could have been a touch better, but he was under alot of pressure at times. I think todays game though really highlighted our need for a big time WR. Parker I like, but don't think he's a true #1. Outside of him and Gesicki though we have nobody who can help a QB out downfield. It's never on one player, especially the deeper downfield the throw is. All the QB can do is get it there, it's up to the WR to get it. We're severely lacking the guys who can separate from coverage, get up and get it, and make things happen after they have it.

    I think Tua's biggest flaws today were the couple of brain farts he had when KC's DC tricked him presnap and his misread coverage. My biggest frustration with him is how he seemingly freezes up when that happens. The sack before halftime, the safety are two plays that come to mind. Had the look of a guy who just got lost, and froze up. I'm sure nobody was open downfield either given our WR's, but you just can't take sacks in those two spots and I felt both times he should have had the ability to move and/or throw it away.

    I do agree though, those moments seem to be getting fewer and farther between which is an encouraging sign. Todays game from Tua felt alot like the Arizona game. Even better maybe though because he had far less to work with talent wise in this game, than he did in that one.
     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I mean, Parker, Williams and Gisecki are al "good enough" to be #1 guys in certain situations. But how often do we have all three of them on the field healthy? I just think we need "that guy", that Jarvis Landry type of receiver who seems to stay healthy and fights like a honey badger on every single play. If Parker and Williams are your #2/3 guys with Gisecki at TE, then holy heck this offense is stacked! Luckily there are several elite WR's in this draft and one of them may fall to us with our 2nd pick.

    For RB, I've watched Etienne his entire college career since Clemson is my local team and that kid is just sensational- elite blocker, elite catcher, elite running with the football, elite breaking tackles and making people miss. He literally does it all on levels you don't see in modern RB's and I have a feeling he could go in the 1st half of the 1st round.

    I don't know if I ever wanted a player that badly in the draft and I've been saying it here for two years now. Etienne gives me that Bo Jackson vibe with his running style and I'll seriously pout if we don't draft him.
     
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  20. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

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    Some of Tua's throws were unbelievable and incredibly accurate tonight.

    As I’ve already said, it’s encouraging that this very young and very inexperienced OLine is able to give Tua so much protection. These guys are only going to improve and hopefully, will be comparable to the Dwight Stephenson-led line that only gave up 14 sacks one season.
     
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  21. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    30 unanswered points is the biggest stat in today's game. Getting some of it back when the KC defense was playing soft looks good on the stat sheet but hides just how lopsided this game really was.
     
  22. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just my 2 cents on the safety, he probably took the lesser of the worse case scenario, as he didn't seem to have anything open. As a rookie, he could have forced it, which potentially opens up a pick 6 considering where we were starting that drive (not helped by the terrible jet sweep call on 1st down, which lost us 2 yards that we didn't really have).
    Also, if he had thrown it away, doesn't that lead to an intentional grounding call in the end zone, so still a safety? It is possible he could have slid and escaped but again, space is limited in the end zone and likely steps on the backline.

    We've seen more experienced QB's freeze when presented with something different - we've only got to look at the game against the Rams earlier this season to see what happens to QB's when the defense messes with their mind. Tua had maybe one moment - how many did Goff have against us, how many did the already media appointed rookie of the year (Herbert) have against us? Again, it's Tua's 6th start. Mahomes looked confused once or twice, it happens when the D shows something different. Yep, there were a couple of floated long balls but with free rushers in his face on a few of these and a couple of pathetic efforts from the receivers, it looks worse. We've seen these many times from other QB's (I can remember one from Wilson in particular from last year) where they have been rescued by the receiver and the commentators almost self-combust with their praise of the QB, when it was really a dangerous heave and should have been broken up/intercepted.

    Not gipping you btw Brandon
     
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  23. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I’m with you Key. I just don’t think folks get how incredibly vital an explosive running back is to a quarterback. Even dumb dumb Tony Romo said it yesterday that a great running back is a quarterback’s best friend. Having that genuine running threat opens up the playbook and makes play action pass that much more of a genuine threat. If you can’t run the ball; if you’re not running the ball the play action pass doesn’t fool anyone. Hell, look at Tannehill, he’s so dangerous because the Titans have that running game. Hell, even look at Brees with Alvin Kamara!

    Etienne would not only give us that effective running game, let that kid catch a short pass out in that flat and he’s going to make defenders look stupid trying to stop him. That will really help our receivers get open.

    Like I said previously, I’m not opposed to an upgrade at WR but I know that if we don’t work on our ground game, we’re going to have the same issue in the passing game as we’ve had.
     
  24. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’m just not a fan of spending 1st round picks on RB’s when you can find so many good ones in the 2nd and 3rd round.
     
  25. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    You use Kamara as an example, he was a 3rd round pick.

    That's a great round to take a running back. No need to take a running back in the first round. It should be last of their priorities on offense.
     
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  26. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    This is one of those rare occasions where a loss just doesn't bother me that much. The entire team is likely to take a huge step forward next year, so anything they do this year is just icing on the cake. Man it is going to be fun watching this team gel over the next season.
     
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  27. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I hear you. No worries about disagreeing either; that's what were here for to discuss things.

    I likely overreacted a bit to the play in real time. I would have just preferred to see him do something other that what appeared to be freezing up mentally. That being said, it's expected as he's a rookie.

    Yes, throwing it away and getting nailed for intentional grounding would have been a safety anyways, but I'm not suggesting he throws it away and takes a penalty. Know where your checkdown option is & spike it at him. Know where another WR on the field is and sail it out of bounds in their direction. It's alot to ask of a rookie in that situation being under pressure, I get it, but there's options. I would have liked to just see some effort there, not a guy who looked paralyzed. Maybe I'm being tough on him here (and for the record to all, I'm not hating on him! lol) but I would have liked to just see something other than a statue, but I get your points as well on not having room to move. I'd have to see the play in it's entirety again.

    I think that's the key here, I'm not trying to say he's awful or anything, but I just noted those two particular sacks as being evidence of a guy who got caught off guard mentally. So, good job on KC's DC there for mixing him up. That being said I also think those plays are getting fewer and farther between as he gets more playing time under his belt and those are great things to see as pointed out by someone else earlier.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  28. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Totally agree. IMO with more capable WR's on the field he would have had 2 more TD passes yesterday as well. The one to Parker & the one to Perry should have been TD's. Maybe Parker could have had a problem getting his feet down in play with the defenders being there, but those throws were dimes that should have and could have been caught. Hard to blame Perry though with his lack of size and experience. You can't blame Tua though on either of them because IMO good decision & good throw both times.

    Mentioned in in the game thread when he threw a pass later in the game to Hollins on a 10-15 yard out route. He had a clean pocket, stepped into it and just ripped a laser to Hollins for the catch. I know some here have said he lacks arm strength, but I'm not so sure I see that.

    Romo also mentioned how good his anticipation is. I thought he's struggled with it a bit early on, but yesterday IMO he seemed alot more comfortable throwing and anticipating. As you've said, you can clearly see growth in his game and I see no reason that can't continue especially as the OL grows/gels and we add weapons around him.
     
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  29. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I actually missed the safety so I cant say for sure what he should have done, but I'd agree that there had to be a check down to throw it into the ground out.

    I think it is better to take the penalty safety than the sack worst case.

    That said from what I did see he had a strong game, I mainly caught the end of the first on.

    My biggest regret from the game was us not going for two to try and make it 30-25. I know Flores was trusting the defense, but against KC I'm not counting on stopping them scoreless when it counts.
     
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  30. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Forgot earlier but on this note also wanted to add that if there wasn't a checkdown option built into that play when you're calling a pass play at that spot of the field; then that's on Gailey for calling a poor play given their field position.
     
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  31. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Agreed on that. The only way I'm not having a check down there is if it's a quick fade down the sideline because you have the option built in of throwing it out of bounds. Otherwise there should someone.
     
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  32. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Would like to see an All 22 to see what options he had - I did see that Simon C was on Twitter and he said it was only a 3 man route with nothing there for Tua
     
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  33. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Depends on what your priorities are. If you want to be one sided on offense and put the entire weight of the offense on the quarterback then by all means, you go for nothing but receivers in the first round however...

    If you want to balance your offense and take some pressure off of the quarterback and threaten teams with a viable running threat, then you draft an instant impact running back so defenses have 2 threats to worry about.

    If we have the chance to draft Etienne and we pass him up for a receiver and we still are one dimensional on offense, I don’t want to hear anyone cry about the offense.

    No one wants to listen to me because I’m old school. Yea I am but as old school as I am, I loved watching Marino light up the field with high flying passes. But as I’ve watched football progress over the years, I’ve watched teams continuously get further and further away from the basics. Everyone touts the few exceptions to remarkable quarterback play and are adamant that’s the rule, not the exception. You have to have an elite quarterback to win.

    I’ll keep pointing to that team in Nashville as the epitome of what an offense should be. If we don’t get Tagovailoa our own Derrick Henry, his career is going to be plagued with mediocrity.
     
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  34. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    People tout the rule because it's generally better to go with what tends to work. It's also worth noting that Tennessee isn't even one of the exceptions yet as they haven't won a SB. Tennessee and SF came close last year, but they fell to a team that was great in the passing game (both offense and defense) but terrible at running the ball and defending against the run. We have to emphasize building a great passing attack first.

    As far as Tua, I think he's providing more and more evidence his career will not be "plagued with mediocrity" if he doesn't have a Derrick Henry type RB. The guy can ball, even if he still has issues to fix.
     
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  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tua will be a precise surgeon on the field very shortly, he doesn’t make the same mistakes twice.

    Dan Marino never had a stud running back... Never won a championship.

    Tua is excellent at ball handling.

    Get him a stud..
     
  36. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Can you just imagine had Marino had a Thurmond Thomas, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders or Emmitt Smith in the backfield with him?
     
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  37. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    He wouldn't have been Dan Marino.
     
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  38. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that the back has to be worthy of a first. Just taking a back in the first doesnt make him a great talent.

    If you're offering me a LT, Adrian Peterson, Henry, so on type back I'll go for it all day.

    If you're offering me this second tier it has to be a late first or early second rounder.
     
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  39. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I'm telling ya I really like Najee Harris for that. He is nearly the same size as Derrick Henry, 1 inch shorter and 10lbs lighter. But he is a full tenth faster. Etienne may be a better all around back but I think for the long haul in the NFL, Harris will be the better fit.

    Truth be told, I won't be upset at either guy, I just like Harris a little better.
     
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  40. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Eh, Dan would have checked out of the running play anyway. LOL
     
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