I Love Me Some Chris Grier

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

You know how I know I win?

When a person is unable to use real world examples to explain their point. When they can't articulate what is actually wrong or incorrect, so they write a little quip no-one thinks is funny.

Thanks for the W.

"Drizzy wrote:

Al Gore is gonna be pissed!

"Drizzy wrote:

Sorry if he were actually learning he would've cleared everyone out for once instead of deciding yet again that there shouldn’t be full accountability with a collaborative group of decision makers that have been running the team poorly for 3-4 years.

The one thing that Stephen Ross knows that we will never know is what has happened behind closed doors.

At the end of the day, the only thing we know about the Dolphins is who they draft and who they sign as free agents. Sure, Omar Kelly might tweet that the Dolphins love player X, but those reporters get used as smokescreen all the time. Take it with a grain of salt.

Ross is in a unique situation where he can evaluate the evaluator. Imagine if you were in the room in 2017 when drafted Charles Harris. Suppose Grier was banging on the table to package picks up to get Mahomes, but ultimately, Tannenbaum said stand pat. Then imagine we are on the clock and Gase and Tannenbaum said they wanted Harris, and again, Grier said that we'd be better off with TJ Watt. He shows the coaching staff and Tannenbuam his grade on Harris was low and high on Watt.

Okay, years go by and Ross remembers this, looks at his past evaluations and realizes, this is the guy I should have been listening to all along.

Now here is the thing. We'll never know if something like this happened or not. Maybe you are right, and another crony has been promoted, but don't negate the possibility Grier may be a good hire. If we had access to that information, it would certainly help.

"hazed819 wrote:

Give this man the reins, he's got an eye for talent, he's hit on some good players. Let him rebuild this without the Tannebaums and Hickeys of the world having say over him.

I'm not totally sold on grier. Yeah he hit on some talent. But he is also the guy who picked charles harris over trading down, picked raekwon mcmillan over cunningham, and picked fitzpatrick over derwin james, and picked gesicki over mark andrews. All of which I disagreed with and hace proven not to have been very wise decisions. He has also been involved in our years of ineptitude at picking quality offensive lineman and our failure to find a franchise QB after marino left. He has been with the dolphins through many years of ineptitude in tge personnell department so I'm not sure why everybody is raving about him.

"hitman8 wrote:

I'm not totally sold on grier. Yeah he hit on some talent. But he is also the guy who picked charles harris over trading down, picked raekwon mcmillan over cunningham, and picked fitzpatrick over derwin james, and picked gesicki over mark andrews. All of which I disagreed with and hace proven not to have been very wise decisions. He has also been involved in our years of ineptitude at picking quality offensive lineman and our failure to find a franchise QB after marino left. He has been with the dolphins through many years of ineptitude in tge personnell department so I'm not sure why everybody is raving about him.

You don't know he made any of those decisions himself or approved of them. There were 3 people in charge of those decisions.

Also if your criteria is pick the one guy out of thousands you think is best, you would have been sadly disappointed no matter who we hired.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

You don't know he made any of those decisions himself or approved of them. There were 3 people in charge of those decisions.

Also if your criteria is pick the one guy out of thousands you think is best, you would have been sadly disappointed no matter who we hired.

As far as we know although he didnt have final say he was the one mostly in charge of the last couple of drafts, and they were nothing to write home about. He was the one who said we targeted charles harris who I thought was the most overrated DE in that draft and has been a complete dissapointment so far, mcmillan over cunningham and gesicki over andrews were also bad decisions. I wasnt thrilled with picking fitzpatrick over james either and aside from tunsil who fell to us we have been terrible at spoting oline talent through the draft.

So yeah I am still not totally sold on grier. Let's see how he does this next draft before we declare him great. He will have no excuses from here on out since he is now the one running the show.

I dont recall anyone here calling him great. On our side of the looking glass we just don't know.

"Tin Indian wrote:

I dont recall anyone here calling him great. On our side of the looking glass we just don't know.

OP said he "loves" grier, which must mean he thinks grier is great or at least very good.

"hitman8 wrote:

OP said he "loves" grier, which must mean he thinks grier is great or at least very good.

I think you have to take things like that with a grain of salt. Do we really know if one guy is going to be better than the other? We have had all kinds in here from highly regarded talent evaluators like Johnson and Parcels to regular guys like Ireland. I think the OP was just saying that he was happy that Grier is finally getting his opportunity. I don't have any facts to base it on. I don't know who Grier has wanted or who he hasn't. However, the guy is highly regarded, so I am going to trust he has a plan and a vision and be happy for him too.

Okay, I took some flack earlier when I made post about Grier two hours into the job where I evaluated this interview selection. I openly admit, it was too early to do any real evaluation. I guess it was more of an early look.

That being said, time has passed by, and I think I can now speak with a little more clarity.

Is anyone else less than impressed with the list of coaches being interviewed? In all honesty, I am not sure if many of these names are a real improvement.

I don't know about you guys, but I am praying for Fangio more and more because the alternatives are horrifying.

I would love to see a home run attempt, and who knows, maybe Grier is doing his due diligence before making a substantial offer for John Harbaugh.

One other aside, I wish we did some outside the box thinking. We are interviewing the same people that everyone else is interviewing. I feel like we are playing a game of musical chairs, and because we do not currently have one of the more desirable openings, we could really get caught with our pants down.

"tirty8 wrote:

Okay, I took some flack earlier when I made post about Grier two hours into the job where I evaluated this interview selection. I openly admit, it was too early to do any real evaluation. I guess it was more of an early look.

That being said, time has passed by, and I think I can now speak with a little more clarity.

Is anyone else less than impressed with the list of coaches being interviewed? In all honesty, I am not sure if many of these names are a real improvement.

I don't know about you guys, but I am praying for Fangio more and more because the alternatives are horrifying.

I would love to see a home run attempt, and who knows, maybe Grier is doing his due diligence before making a substantial offer for John Harbaugh.

One other aside, I wish we did some outside the box thinking. We are interviewing the same people that everyone else is interviewing. I feel like we are playing a game of musical chairs, and because we do not currently have one of the more desirable openings, we could really get caught with our pants down.

You make some good points. However, someone had to take the chance on Tomlin or Harbaugh. I guess it's gonna be one of those things in that we won't know until we know. Initially, I thought Gase was going to be a great hire and would be someone we had as our coach for many years.

I think I'm clearly in the minority here but I don't have any interest in bringing either Harbaugh in as Head Coach. And unlike most I don't see being a first time head coach as a negative as long as the guy is really prepared. What I do not want is to hire a guy that is going to come on board and call the plays on either side of the ball, you have coordinators - let them do their job. I want the Head Coach focused on the 10,000 ft view.

Harbaugh is reportedly not interested in being traded because he doesn't want his landing spot to be sacrificing talent. Sounds like he is content to coach the next season and see where it goes (either extended via success or becoming a "FA" coach with his pick of jobs). It's pretty much the same fear that many of us expressed - giving up significant resources for a non-player is an odd move, especially for a franchise that is not in win now position.

"tirty8 wrote:

Okay, I took some flack earlier when I made post about Grier two hours into the job where I evaluated this interview selection. I openly admit, it was too early to do any real evaluation. I guess it was more of an early look.

That being said, time has passed by, and I think I can now speak with a little more clarity.

Is anyone else less than impressed with the list of coaches being interviewed? In all honesty, I am not sure if many of these names are a real improvement.

I don't know about you guys, but I am praying for Fangio more and more because the alternatives are horrifying.

I would love to see a home run attempt, and who knows, maybe Grier is doing his due diligence before making a substantial offer for John Harbaugh.

One other aside, I wish we did some outside the box thinking. We are interviewing the same people that everyone else is interviewing. I feel like we are playing a game of musical chairs, and because we do not currently have one of the more desirable openings, we could really get caught with our pants down.

So you are not impressed with who we interview, although you note that the people we are interviewing is a fairly standard list among all teams? Are you just not impressed with the available coaches in general, or what?

Who would constitute "out of the box" thinking in your estimation? And any "out of the box" thinking to start with will likely very quickly become "in the box" as NFL teams seem to copy each other all the time. Look at the Kliff Kingsbury interest. He would probably be an "out of the box" option, but reportedly has multiple NFL teams seeking HC interviews and failing that would have a ton of OC interest.

What's good about Grier now being in charge is that there is 1 person making all the moves instead of a clusterfuck of decision making. Let's all hope he pans out.

"jdallen1222 wrote:

What's good about Grier now being in charge is that there is 1 person making all the moves instead of a cluster**** of decision making. Let's all hope he pans out.

At the very least, we can focus on one scapegoat now. :up:

"texanphinatic wrote:

Harbaugh is reportedly not interested in being traded because he doesn't want his landing spot to be sacrificing talent. Sounds like he is content to coach the next season and see where it goes (either extended via success or becoming a "FA" coach with his pick of jobs). It's pretty much the same fear that many of us expressed - giving up significant resources for a non-player is an odd move, especially for a franchise that is not in win now position.

So you are not impressed with who we interview, although you note that the people we are interviewing is a fairly standard list among all teams? Are you just not impressed with the available coaches in general, or what?

Who would constitute "out of the box" thinking in your estimation? And any "out of the box" thinking to start with will likely very quickly become "in the box" as NFL teams seem to copy each other all the time. Look at the Kliff Kingsbury interest. He would probably be an "out of the box" option, but reportedly has multiple NFL teams seeking HC interviews and failing that would have a ton of OC interest.

I am not particularly in love with the standard list flying around. I feel like there is a bit of group think amongst losing organizations going on here. Just kinda look at the list of guys that we have interviewed.

Bieniemy and Fangio - These names make the most sense. Bieniemy has one of the most explosive offenses we've ever seen, worked under Andy Reid, and quite possibly groomed a first year starter into MVP. I couldn't fault anyone for wanting to interview him.

Likewise Fangio has had a lifetime of success on the defensive front. Another solid interview.

Kris Richard - He seems to be a young up and comer. Perhaps a little early for a head coaching vacancy, but he is an interesting candidate. He has played in organizations that do it right, and does have a deep understanding of defensive backs (probably our strongest position). Love the fact that we are interviewing him, but there are a litany of concerns.

Munchak and Flores - For the life of me, I don't get these. I seriously wonder if teams are looking at these guys because other teams are looking at them. Perhaps they have their own insecurities and are worried that they are missing something. Munchak had a very forgettable tenure in Tennessee. Of all the guys that have been fired recently, I never really thought that he got a raw deal or if under different circumstances, he may have been successful.

Flores make me wonder if teams are ever going to learn. Patriots coordinators have awful track records as head coaches. Look at his former boss, Matt Patricia. Rumors were floating around that he could've been one and done. The Patriots have a less than impressive defense. Like Rizzi, I feel like being an intense, high energy guy is not enough.

As far as outside the box candidates go, I would like to see first and foremost, a home run shot. Going after a guy that is for all intents and purposes is not available. Look at what the Packers are doing with Pat Fitzgerald. Odds are, they probably wouldn't be able to land him, but I love the fact that they are trying. I think the college ranks are particularly rich at coaching options. Lincoln Riley got tons of love, but there are a lot of really, really good options.

Here are a list of guys that I would at least attempt to interview -
Urban Meyer, James Franklin, David Shaw, Gary Patterson

Fallen angels - I think guys that have successful stints as head coaches could instantly bring stability and respectability to our team. I would love to be confident that the Dolphins would put together a solid staff. Sure there are a lot of mediocre names, but I also know that when these guys have talent around them, they win.

Mike Shannahan, Jeff Fisher, Rex Ryan, Marvin Lewis

Up and comers - Perhaps a little early, but may be worth a listen.
Ed Ogeron, Matt Rhule, Kliff Kingsbury

Wait and see if they get fired -
Jay Gruden

Let me be absolutely clear. I am NOT SAYING THAT I WOULD HIRE ALL OF THESE GUYS. However, I would gladly interview all of these guys. I get it. Some of these guys probably would not even take our phone calls, but I do think that some would.

Finally, there is a rumor whirling around that Dennis Allen was never really a serious candidate, but we are doing a recognizance mission on Teddy Bridgewater. That being said, I would love to hear what the fallen angels think of our roster. When dealing with people, it is easy to get attached, become biased based on personal relationships, or fail to see diminishing skillsets. I think there is a real benefit in bringing in an independent third party. These eyes have no preconceived ideas, and will be far more likely to evaluate them on what they have done for us lately. Additionally, I would really like to know why these guys feel that they fell from grace (perhaps it may not have been entirely his fault) and what they learned from their failures. I really think that interviewing at least one fallen angel would be a really smart idea for a lot of reasons.

Going to be 100% honest...I hate when people say that coaches from tree x or y don't succeed or are great.

It literally means nothing. Either a guy is adept as a HC or he isn't. There is nothing magic in the Reid tree or poison in the Patriots coaches.

Everyone needs to be assessed as an INDIVIDUAL not on past people who have nothing to do with them.

If you told me I had no chance to succeed because my mentor, who was a great success can't produce other winners...we would be fighting.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

Going to be 100% honest...I hate when people say that coaches from tree x or y don't succeed or are great.

It literally means nothing. Either a guy is adept as a HC or he isn't. There is nothing magic in the Reid tree or poison in the Patriots coaches.

Everyone needs to be assessed as an INDIVIDUAL not on past people who have nothing to do with them.

If you told me I had no chance to succeed because my mentor, who was a great success can't produce other winners...we would be fighting.

I do think that certain coaches prepare their assistants better than others, and because of that, you can put a premium on certain guys. You cannot hone in on one attribute, but instead, you have to consider all things. I do think that this includes pedigree.

Think of it this way. Imagine there are two high schools in an area. One is a really strong one while another is a much weaker school. On the whole, the stronger school does a much better job at preparing their kids for college, but that does not preclude individual students from the weaker school from being prepared.

Now if I told you that the college valedictorian came from either the weaker school or the stronger school, and I told you to guess which one produced the valedictorian, it would be in your best interests to pick the stronger school because they produces more successful students by volume even though it is entirely possible that the weaker school did produce the valedictorian.

The same should at least be considered for coaching trees. Certain coaches produce large quantities of strong head coaches while others produce much fewer. If you had to guess where a good head coach is coming from, I would guess the stronger one.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

You don't know he made any of those decisions himself or approved of them. There were 3 people in charge of those decisions.

Also if your criteria is pick the one guy out of thousands you think is best, you would have been sadly disappointed no matter who we hired.

And yet Grier is the only one who kept his job...they should’ve all been fired.

"texanphinatic wrote:

At the very least, we can focus on one scapegoat now. :up:

Such a great point..

We didn’t make moves for so many top prospects it’s a joke, now we at least will know after three years who did what

"tirty8 wrote:

I do think that certain coaches prepare their assistants better than others, and because of that, you can put a premium on certain guys. You cannot hone in on one attribute, but instead, you have to consider all things. I do think that this includes pedigree.

Think of it this way. Imagine there are two high schools in an area. One is a really strong one while another is a much weaker school. On the whole, the stronger school does a much better job at preparing their kids for college, but that does not preclude individual students from the weaker school from being prepared.

Now if I told you that the college valedictorian came from either the weaker school or the stronger school, and I told you to guess which one produced the valedictorian, it would be in your best interests to pick the stronger school because they produces more successful students by volume even though it is entirely possible that the weaker school did produce the valedictorian.

The same should at least be considered for coaching trees. Certain coaches produce large quantities of strong head coaches while others produce much fewer. If you had to guess where a good head coach is coming from, I would guess the stronger one.

Well I agree if all other things are equal, it's a factor. I just don't like the idea of writing a guy off because he's from a tree.

Due to their success I feel like coaches who weren't ready were poached and given keys to cars they werent ready for or in some cases never deserved.

This aged well lol. Absurd this guy was kept, will likely hire another incompetent in Flores, and then draft a 5'9 QB piglet in the 1st to ensure another 3-4 years of ineptitude. Dolphins will be lucky to have 40K people at some games next year.