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I keep hearing that Dan Williams is...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by FinFan316, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. FinFan316

    FinFan316 Banned

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    ...a two down player. And since he is a two down player, we shouldn't take him. I think that isn't a good grasp of the 3-4 defense.

    Almost no NT is going to play in 3rd and long. You will get the smaller guys who can all rush the passer since the NT isn't needed to eat up space on passing downs. So...if YOU ARE LUCKY, your NT is a two down player.

    If its third and two, the NT will be in the game. So the idea that because hes likely to play primarily on first and second down does nothing to dampen my enthusiasm of him. I don't need him to get sacks or tackles. Just put the other team in 3rd and 5 or longer and get your big butt to the sideline for a much deserved rest.
     
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  2. TheMarshall

    TheMarshall New Member

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    i agree, i say we draft earl thomas, and worry about DT in the 3rd
     
  3. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    I like Dan but wouldn't take him tell around pick 50 or so.
     
  4. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Except that a lot of teams convert to 4 man fronts and bring in a lighter man to play next to your pass rushing DT. But Williams isn't a pass rushing DT so out he goes. Some teams kick them out totally, put Williams has minimal pass rushing ability and major technique flaws.

    Plus he's never played a snap in a 34 defense in his life.

    And Monte Kiffin saying he was hard to motivate as a senior should be the only red flag that you need pay attention to.
     
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  5. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Yah I just can't see the Dolphins being the team that spends the highest draft pick on a NT in the history of the draft. Especially on a 1 year wonder, who a lot of people feel is being highly over drafted with work ethic issues.
     
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  6. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Sigh. Once again Boomer has made my point before I had a chance to, and did as better job of it as well. :pity:
     
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  7. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    just say no to Dan Williams ...
     
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  8. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    he also had 1 good season in his career in college. **** no. id rather go NT later in the draft.....thats really parcells MO anyways.

    If we take dan williams @12....ive said it once, ill say it again....ill put my beer down and chug a bottle of drain-o
     
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  9. Zach13

    Zach13 Season Ticket Holder

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    I agree that we do not take Williams. This FO has had success in getting DT's in the later rounds.

    I also do not think we draft a safety in the 1st round. It is too big of a gamble.

    I think we go OLB
     
  10. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    Im all for Dan Williams if this FO believes he's can develop into a good NT. NT is an unfortunate position that is incredibly hard to fill. Either you're paying top dollar for a FA or you have to be stellar (or lucky) in the draft.
     
  11. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nose Tackle being able to contribute as a pass rusher really isn't unreasonable. There are guys who are bigger and heavier than Williams who are skilled pass rushers, and I think that's a reasonable demand for a high 1st round pick.
     
  12. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    I read somewhere that one of Solaii's flaws is he can sometimes be blocked by a single offensive lineman. Can't remember where I read this so don't have a link. But my point is what if Dan Williams has the same flaw and we spend a first round pick on a NT who can't clog the middle and we let a lot of other good players who could have had an immediate impact pass bye.
    I know anyone else we could draft could also be flawed but technique can be taught, but the ability to clog the middle is something that is more of a natural ability than a learned technique. I just feel like Dan Williams is more of a gamble than some of the other position players and it is compounded by the fact we have no 2nd round pick. I guess I am saying, if we only have one pick in the first two rounds it better be a good one with a high probability of success.
     
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  13. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    In our division, you need to have a NT that can either create opportunities for the LBers to make plays or a NT that can penetrate and get pressure on the QB. Fergy was in on many 2nd/3rd and longs...because he created pressure. The knock on Williams is that he can't do that. I don't know for sure as watching film is not my forte, but most of the draftniks and talking heads are repeating the same things about Williams and his inability to be what we are looking for.

    Additionally, if we had one or acquired a 2nd round pick, then Williams may yet make sense. But as it stands, we can't afford to NOT get our OLB from position #12 and take the chance that an impact OLB will be available later in the draft. The simple fact is we really need more than one OLB. No one is mistaking Wake, Anderson, Q Moses as starters...
     
  14. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    They have shown some interest in Jeff Owens out of GT, I think. Someone who has questions, but has likely will be available to us later in the 4th or 5th...and could hold the fort with Soliai until Fergy returns...Of course a long term replacement has to be in the works either way...
     
  15. Phinatic425

    Phinatic425 MIA State of Mind

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    DT's take while to develope...for all we know Solai could be our answer at DT.
     
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  16. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    I talked to KC Joyner months ago and asked him who Dan Williams reminded him of already in the nfl that plays in a 3-4 and i said he seems like Soliai 2.0 to me.

    He came back with, "your right" then talk about another DT that plays in a 3-4 that still has the mind set of a 4-3 DT in Shaun Rogers.

    Anyways Dan Williams just like Shaun and Paul would be better in a 4-3 because he just doesn't have the right mind set to hold up two guys, he just wants to blow pass a guy and make a play.......So that and him playing high is why small Olinemen can ride him right out of a play like they walking a trash can with wheels.

    I could see them picking up Cam Thomas, who i think is the best 3-4 DT in the draft or someone like Arthur Jones, lol or both.
     
  17. larfo2224

    larfo2224 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I will friggen throw up if on Thursday we select Williams with our #12 pick. I think we need to either draft an OLB or a FS (if one of the top 2 are still available). Of course we all still have our dream scenario of trading down and recouping the 2nd round pick, but I never count on that.
     
  18. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we go Dan Williams while any reasonable OLB/DE Conversion is on the board, I don't know what I'm going to do.

    I mean at least we have a warm body at NT in Soliai... Quentin Moses, and Cam "All I can do is pass rush" Wake on the outside? I love me some Cam Wake pass rushing, but sweet jesus I would never rely on him to stop the run, or play pass protection.

    To me, the loss of JT has more or less firmly cemented the fact we're going OLB in rounds 1 and 3 (or 1 and 2 if we trade down).
     
  19. FinFan316

    FinFan316 Banned

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    If you don't like him as a player, thats a different issue. If he has motivation issues, etc, thats a different thing. If you think he doesn't fit the NT, again, different issue and I really wasn't addressing those.

    But because he comes out on third down and long...isn't a reason not to take him. If hes not good, can't be motivated, and can't adapt to the 3-4, the coaches shouldn't take him in any round.

    But I see him in a lot of mocks, by alot of "experts" get slotted to a 3-4 team. People will have a different opinion of the player. Thats to be expected.

    Some teams may push their NT to go to a four man front..but I can't think of any good ones who do that. Can you? Didn't Ferguson come out on third down in passing sits? I think so. The big guy in Baltimore, Ngata did....so its not uncommon in th least.
     
  20. FinFan316

    FinFan316 Banned

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    As I said to that one guy...different issue. We may or may not take him at 12. We may not even pick at 12. But we should pick or not pick players for the right reason. If hes great at NT on first and second down, thats good enough.
     
  21. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    I want Jeff Owens in round four or five
     
  22. Phinatic425

    Phinatic425 MIA State of Mind

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    What about OLB? I can't decide which I would want more...

    I would love to see Thomas in a Phin uniform
     
  23. FinFan316

    FinFan316 Banned

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    Its an interesting thing thats going on here. I haven't seen ANY person of repute say that Jeff Owens is better than Dan Williams. Have any of you? If you do please provide the link.

    I wanna be clear, because I like both players. Is it that you guys think JO will be just as good or that he is just more viable in the later rounds?

    Because there are a bunch of teams running the 3-4. If he is just as good as Dan Williams, I don't think he'll last until the 6th round.

    Of course, none of us knows how good any player will be. We are ALL (even the professionals) guessing. Granted its easier to guess about a guy like N.Suh than it is others, but still......
     
  24. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    I would much rather have Brandon Graham. He's a ferocious pass rusher at DE who played LB in high school. I think he's perfect for us.
     
  25. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    First off, Ngata plays defensive end. Kelly Gregg is the NT.
     
  26. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It's not about being better. It's about offering value at specific points in the draft. The better value to Miami is Owens in 5 over Williams at 12. Or Kade Weston in 4 over Williams at 12. It would have been Linval Joseph in 2 over Williams at 12 had we had the pick.
     
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  27. FinFan316

    FinFan316 Banned

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    I'm not a big fan of Baltimore so if I screw up the name of their players, I apologize. How many sacks did Kelly Gregg have last year?

    Point being, we don't even get pass rush from OUR ends. Why should we expect our NT to get pass rush?

    I think, for whatever reason (not saying any reason isn't valid) alot of people here don't like Dan Williams and they dismiss him by saying hes a two down player. Its fine not to like him. Alot of scouts think he has first round talent, but again, scouting CF is hardly a science. Its all guessing. They could all be wrong. I do think that some team who is picking in the first round will take him.

    I find it interesting that people cavalierly say "draft Jeff Owens in the 4-6 round, problem solved"....when has our 4th, 5th, or 6th rounder ever solved a problem of need? Its not often.

    I think NT is a serious issue. If we don't get that fixed, our defense isn't going to be good enough to win in the playoffs...which is the goal.
     

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