I keep hearing that Dan Williams is...

i agree, i say we draft earl thomas, and worry about DT in the 3rd

I like Dan but wouldn't take him tell around pick 50 or so.

"FinFan316 wrote:

...a two down player. And since he is a two down player, we shouldn't take him. I think that isn't a good grasp of the 3-4 defense.

Almost no NT is going to play in 3rd and long. You will get the smaller guys who can all rush the passer since the NT isn't needed to eat up space on passing downs. So...if YOU ARE LUCKY, your NT is a two down player.

If its third and two, the NT will be in the game. So the idea that because hes likely to play primarily on first and second down does nothing to dampen my enthusiasm of him. I don't need him to get sacks or tackles. Just put the other team in 3rd and 5 or longer and get your big butt to the sideline for a much deserved rest.

Except that a lot of teams convert to 4 man fronts and bring in a lighter man to play next to your pass rushing DT. But Williams isn't a pass rushing DT so out he goes. Some teams kick them out totally, put Williams has minimal pass rushing ability and major technique flaws.

Plus he's never played a snap in a 34 defense in his life.

And Monte Kiffin saying he was hard to motivate as a senior should be the only red flag that you need pay attention to.

Yah I just can't see the Dolphins being the team that spends the highest draft pick on a NT in the history of the draft. Especially on a 1 year wonder, who a lot of people feel is being highly over drafted with work ethic issues.

"Boomer wrote:

Except that a lot of teams convert to 4 man fronts and bring in a lighter man to play next to your pass rushing DT. But Williams isn't a pass rushing DT so out he goes. Some teams kick them out totally, put Williams has minimal pass rushing ability and major technique flaws.

Plus he's never played a snap in a 34 defense in his life.

And Monte Kiffin saying he was hard to motivate as a senior should be the only red flag that you need pay attention to.

Sigh. Once again Boomer has made my point before I had a chance to, and did as better job of it as well. :pity:

just say no to Dan Williams ...

he also had 1 good season in his career in college. **** no. id rather go NT later in the draft.....thats really parcells MO anyways.

If we take dan williams @12....ive said it once, ill say it again....ill put my beer down and chug a bottle of drain-o

I agree that we do not take Williams. This FO has had success in getting DT's in the later rounds.

I also do not think we draft a safety in the 1st round. It is too big of a gamble.

I think we go OLB

Im all for Dan Williams if this FO believes he's can develop into a good NT. NT is an unfortunate position that is incredibly hard to fill. Either you're paying top dollar for a FA or you have to be stellar (or lucky) in the draft.

Nose Tackle being able to contribute as a pass rusher really isn't unreasonable. There are guys who are bigger and heavier than Williams who are skilled pass rushers, and I think that's a reasonable demand for a high 1st round pick.

I read somewhere that one of Solaii's flaws is he can sometimes be blocked by a single offensive lineman. Can't remember where I read this so don't have a link. But my point is what if Dan Williams has the same flaw and we spend a first round pick on a NT who can't clog the middle and we let a lot of other good players who could have had an immediate impact pass bye.
I know anyone else we could draft could also be flawed but technique can be taught, but the ability to clog the middle is something that is more of a natural ability than a learned technique. I just feel like Dan Williams is more of a gamble than some of the other position players and it is compounded by the fact we have no 2nd round pick. I guess I am saying, if we only have one pick in the first two rounds it better be a good one with a high probability of success.

"FinFan316 wrote:

...a two down player. And since he is a two down player, we shouldn't take him. I think that isn't a good grasp of the 3-4 defense.

Almost no NT is going to play in 3rd and long. You will get the smaller guys who can all rush the passer since the NT isn't needed to eat up space on passing downs. So...if YOU ARE LUCKY, your NT is a two down player.

If its third and two, the NT will be in the game. So the idea that because hes likely to play primarily on first and second down does nothing to dampen my enthusiasm of him. I don't need him to get sacks or tackles. Just put the other team in 3rd and 5 or longer and get your big butt to the sideline for a much deserved rest.

In our division, you need to have a NT that can either create opportunities for the LBers to make plays or a NT that can penetrate and get pressure on the QB. Fergy was in on many 2nd/3rd and longs...because he created pressure. The knock on Williams is that he can't do that. I don't know for sure as watching film is not my forte, but most of the draftniks and talking heads are repeating the same things about Williams and his inability to be what we are looking for.

Additionally, if we had one or acquired a 2nd round pick, then Williams may yet make sense. But as it stands, we can't afford to NOT get our OLB from position #12 and take the chance that an impact OLB will be available later in the draft. The simple fact is we really need more than one OLB. No one is mistaking Wake, Anderson, Q Moses as starters...

They have shown some interest in Jeff Owens out of GT, I think. Someone who has questions, but has likely will be available to us later in the 4th or 5th...and could hold the fort with Soliai until Fergy returns...Of course a long term replacement has to be in the works either way...

DT's take while to develope...for all we know Solai could be our answer at DT.

"Onehondo wrote:

I read somewhere that one of Solaii's flaws is he can sometimes be blocked by a single offensive lineman. Can't remember where I read this so don't have a link. But my point is what if Dan Williams has the same flaw and we spend a first round pick on a NT who can't clog the middle and we let a lot of other good players who could have had an immediate impact pass bye.
I know anyone else we could draft could also be flawed but technique can be taught, but the ability to clog the middle is something that is more of a natural ability than a learned technique. I just feel like Dan Williams is more of a gamble than some of the other position players and it is compounded by the fact we have no 2nd round pick. I guess I am saying, if we only have one pick in the first two rounds it better be a good one with a high probability of success.

I talked to KC Joyner months ago and asked him who Dan Williams reminded him of already in the nfl that plays in a 3-4 and i said he seems like Soliai 2.0 to me.

He came back with, "your right" then talk about another DT that plays in a 3-4 that still has the mind set of a 4-3 DT in Shaun Rogers.

Anyways Dan Williams just like Shaun and Paul would be better in a 4-3 because he just doesn't have the right mind set to hold up two guys, he just wants to blow pass a guy and make a play.......So that and him playing high is why small Olinemen can ride him right out of a play like they walking a trash can with wheels.

I could see them picking up Cam Thomas, who i think is the best 3-4 DT in the draft or someone like Arthur Jones, lol or both.

I will friggen throw up if on Thursday we select Williams with our #12 pick. I think we need to either draft an OLB or a FS (if one of the top 2 are still available). Of course we all still have our dream scenario of trading down and recouping the 2nd round pick, but I never count on that.

If we go Dan Williams while any reasonable OLB/DE Conversion is on the board, I don't know what I'm going to do.

I mean at least we have a warm body at NT in Soliai... Quentin Moses, and Cam "All I can do is pass rush" Wake on the outside? I love me some Cam Wake pass rushing, but sweet jesus I would never rely on him to stop the run, or play pass protection.

To me, the loss of JT has more or less firmly cemented the fact we're going OLB in rounds 1 and 3 (or 1 and 2 if we trade down).

"Boomer wrote:

Except that a lot of teams convert to 4 man fronts and bring in a lighter man to play next to your pass rushing DT. But Williams isn't a pass rushing DT so out he goes. Some teams kick them out totally, put Williams has minimal pass rushing ability and major technique flaws.

Plus he's never played a snap in a 34 defense in his life.

And Monte Kiffin saying he was hard to motivate as a senior should be the only red flag that you need pay attention to.

If you don't like him as a player, thats a different issue. If he has motivation issues, etc, thats a different thing. If you think he doesn't fit the NT, again, different issue and I really wasn't addressing those.

But because he comes out on third down and long...isn't a reason not to take him. If hes not good, can't be motivated, and can't adapt to the 3-4, the coaches shouldn't take him in any round.

But I see him in a lot of mocks, by alot of "experts" get slotted to a 3-4 team. People will have a different opinion of the player. Thats to be expected.

Some teams may push their NT to go to a four man front..but I can't think of any good ones who do that. Can you? Didn't Ferguson come out on third down in passing sits? I think so. The big guy in Baltimore, Ngata did....so its not uncommon in th least.

"VanDolPhan wrote:

Yah I just can't see the Dolphins being the team that spends the highest draft pick on a NT in the history of the draft. Especially on a 1 year wonder, who a lot of people feel is being highly over drafted with work ethic issues.

As I said to that one guy...different issue. We may or may not take him at 12. We may not even pick at 12. But we should pick or not pick players for the right reason. If hes great at NT on first and second down, thats good enough.

I want Jeff Owens in round four or five

"TheMarshall wrote:

i agree, i say we draft earl thomas, and worry about DT in the 3rd

What about OLB? I can't decide which I would want more...

I would love to see Thomas in a Phin uniform

Its an interesting thing thats going on here. I haven't seen ANY person of repute say that Jeff Owens is better than Dan Williams. Have any of you? If you do please provide the link.

I wanna be clear, because I like both players. Is it that you guys think JO will be just as good or that he is just more viable in the later rounds?

Because there are a bunch of teams running the 3-4. If he is just as good as Dan Williams, I don't think he'll last until the 6th round.

Of course, none of us knows how good any player will be. We are ALL (even the professionals) guessing. Granted its easier to guess about a guy like N.Suh than it is others, but still......

I would much rather have Brandon Graham. He's a ferocious pass rusher at DE who played LB in high school. I think he's perfect for us.

"FinFan316 wrote:

If you don't like him as a player, thats a different issue. If he has motivation issues, etc, thats a different thing. If you think he doesn't fit the NT, again, different issue and I really wasn't addressing those.

But because he comes out on third down and long...isn't a reason not to take him. If hes not good, can't be motivated, and can't adapt to the 3-4, the coaches shouldn't take him in any round.

But I see him in a lot of mocks, by alot of "experts" get slotted to a 3-4 team. People will have a different opinion of the player. Thats to be expected.

Some teams may push their NT to go to a four man front..but I can't think of any good ones who do that. Can you? Didn't Ferguson come out on third down in passing sits? I think so. The big guy in Baltimore, Ngata did....so its not uncommon in th least.

First off, Ngata plays defensive end. Kelly Gregg is the NT.