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Discussion in 'Site Suggestions and Questions' started by Ricky Williams, Jan 3, 2010.
I don't understand? Did you want him leading with his ***?
I'm cooled down. I just think he did lead with his helmet, which to me is dirty regardless. I'll watch it a few more times later.
And yeah I did player. Receiver, tight end, linebacker, and defensive end (at different points in life)
He hit him with helmet first thats a dirty hit even if he didnt mean it its a helmet to helmet last time i checked you get a nice fine for that.
Shoulder pad. I was always taught, you rotate your body when making a hit along the sideline like that as to lead with your shoulderpad and not your helmet.
I got in so much trouble the few times I accidently led forwards with my helmet, it was pretty easy never to do it again.
Sorry if this is true, although from reading the thread, no one called you a liar, they disagreed with your perspective, however, as long as you continue to make the effort to back up your thoughts on reasons why, you may be disagreed with, but you shouldnt be attacked. Stick around and keep giving it the effort you seem to be good at.
Exactly, no need to stoop below the proper level of discourse to make your point. Again, since both sides are welcome we will not always agree, but as long as each side backs up their reasoning, the level of discussion will rise.
No one should be attacked for an opinion, the Opinion will be attacked from opposing CRITIQUE but not the POSTER. Should never happen.
Often, if a POSTER is only using emotion, then you will often see an equal emotional response....thats not what we are looking for.
I wasn't trying to take a shot at you when I asked whether you ever played the game.
Easier sad then done. I would have to disagree. Playing football for a number of years, you lead with your head when you tackle someone....it is the basic fundamentals of football and it is how tackling is taught??? Avoiding head to head contact is what the standard should be....not just a automatic fine because your helmet made contact with his. Hell if you wanted to get technical all linemen lead with their heads when blocking. ever see the other teams paint on their helmets......didn't get there by leading with their rumps!
Pat White went down in a semi head first lunge. that's why it ended up being helmet to helmet.
It was not a dirty hit.
In the open field, yes. Not along the sideline. Theres a different between breaking down and making a tackle, and lowering your head like that.
Or rather, you dont make yourself into a projectile.
If he doesnt lunge he gets a helmet to the chest. He was getting hit with the helmet regardless, which is my point.
You dont launch yourself helmet first at any part of a players body.
may he recovery quickly & w/o permanent damage
Watch the play, he was going at his legs, White ducks down, that made the helmet to helmet contact.
You don't throw a flag on that.
I just watched it three times, it doesn't change
Helmet to Helmet on that specific play had so many variables as to what led to it.....
wouldnt be shocked if fined, but that has more to do with NFL post-wish list than game time reality.
He didn't leave his feet. He was protecting the first down and actually arrived a split second before Pat White did. Don't get me wrong, never want to see any player hurt ever. The Steelers showed a lot of class in the way they acted shortly after the hit occurred. Fining the defender would be wrong in my opinion. There is nothing he could have done to avoid the collision. The hit occurred during what I would consider fair play and was by no means unsportsman like .
That's called "straddling the TOS".
That's indirectly calling someone a liar.
It could just as easily have been, "that's not correct" or "I don't agree".
Dubbing it "a lie" implies something completely different and makes it personal.
Please refrain from this in the future.
We all know that helmet to helmet hits are frowned on and in fact illegal in the NFL. With that said truth be told its almost impossible to illuminate from the game. the speed of the game in accumulation with the fact that the defender doesn't know if the ball carrier is going to zig or Zag makes it very difficult to avoid.
Here is a good example, that we all cheered for of a Helmet to Helmet collision that wasn't flagged.
As for Pat White, I don't think that was a dirty play at all.
Wasn't intentional, wasn't dirty IMO.
a kid in his 20s can have major brain damage, and people make fun of him.
Not my intent. Obviously there has to be a degree of freedom of speech on any message board, but in the same way the U.S. itself draws a line at 'hateful' speech, I think it's fine for moral standards to be a guiding factor in rules for discussion.
It's a difficult thing to 'police' and I dislike the idea of 'thought poilce' as much as you do, probably.
I just feel that we need to actually exemplify a better moral fiber if we expect this place to be a community that keeps and attracts good people and healthy, respectful discussions of which we can be proud.
Outrioght censorship is not the answer either (which was why I said I was uncomfortable with simply banning those in question without considering why they felt that way and allowing them to have a voice)(.
I think as long as the Mods allow those people to have a voice and discuss things before meting out an punishment, it is still a discoure that is constructive. Similarly, thoiugh, I feel that discourse without consequences rarely creates a learning experience for a person. Look at the toothless UN Security Council. Their forces and edicts are disregarded. Words alone don;t always suffice.
So, not oppression, but a true spirit of wanting to help create a community standard, holding to it by having consequences for those who don;t adhere to it, but also nuturing those people and helping teach them how to become better members of the sort of community they can be proud of.
Sorry to hear it NoCal.
Even if someone vehemently disagrees with your opinion, I don;t see much place for name-calling or any other put downs that are personal in nature. By the way, if this ever happens to you, please report the posts. It's not okay fopr people to degrade posters. Emotions sometimes run high here (especially during losses) but I do think we hold ourselves to a pretty high standard generally.
I'm not sure how someone can call you liar for having an opinion. Weird. How does one lie about having an opnion? did they think you didn;t really believe what you claimed to believe? Strange.
Anyways, sorry you've had a bad experience thus far. It's certainly not my perception and experience of ThePhins thus far.
I, for one, hope to see more well thought out threads from new posters like yourself. Things that engender healthy debate and disagreement without turning personal.
We need to remember we all love the Dolphins and are all fans of the same team. No one should treat you like a Jets fan here. (lol. joke.) Actually, even fans of opposing teams are welcome here. Our heart is just that big. lol.
Well said and Thanks for responding to my post. I think there should be some sort of penalty for unwanted and or unwarranted posts.
I also believe that sometimes a person may not articulate what they mean well enough for some and can come across as offensive and vile. A point system could be adopted, similar to rep points. The system should go in both directions.....good and bad. This way a truely accurate picture of the poster as a whole would be available to the mods before discipline is handed out. Also anonymous (can't vote for yourself), points should be able to be awarded to the poster by the general posters on the board. For example if I posted some question in the question and help forum and someone went out of their way to help me I should be able to give them brownie points without them knowing that could offset bad points.....I don't know just a thought. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a system where if people were offended they could report a post for review by a moderator for disciplinary action anonymously. Although I see how that could be a pain in the ***. What ever you guys decide I am sure will be fair.
YOU MEAN THE SITE THAT SHUT DOWN FOR MAINTENANCE
MOST OF THE 4TH QUARTER
In regards to the opening post, I would strongly suggest a study of context in regards to who said what about Pat White.
I was right there in the middke of it, and was included in suggesting that I wished Pat White wasn't taking the field as QB for us, but I don't remember seeing anybody celebrate the injury.
I did see somebody state, prior to the hit, that Pat White was very small ti take many hits, and of course, quite unfortunately, that came to fruition.
Once again, I suggest looking at context of the entire conversation.
Yeah, looking back at it I only saw 1 maybe 2 posts that were a little out of bounds. I saw much worse posted after Pennington went down in game 3.
Hey, some good ideas here. Maybe the current Mods (I'm not one) currently do consider the 'Rep' score of posters in such cases.
We're getting a bit far off of Miami Dolpins discussion now, though this is important stuff. Perhaps if anyone wants to discuss possible rules of conduct some more they could start a thread in the Site Suggestions forum : http://forums.thephins.com/forumdisplay.php?f=25
or send a PM to Muck or Celtkin.
In the meantime, I'm glad could all have a discussion about this. It's a shame about what happened to Pat White. I'm sure we all truly hope he is okay.
An excellent point and one I am sure the Mods were 1000 steps ahead of us on.
Smart man, Kenny. Did you not drink beer today?
I hope there are some bans in the future that have nothing to do with the Pat White injury. The quality of posting in the general forum here has plummeted in the last couple of months.
Thanks Barry, and no I didn't drink beer today
EDIT: And yeah, I am sure the Mods are already on to this, I was mostly trying to inform those jumping on a lynch wagon
I think people are frustrated with how the season ended. That's my excuse when I lose it.
you think its bad here, you should see finheaven
Anyone who mocks Pat White or any injury of that magnitude... well, let's just say the next time you play football or any other sport I hope you get a good pop.
We all lose it, especially me... but there's no excuse for taunting a head injury.
The crappy posts were deleted and discipline meted out.
At least the stuff that was reported or witnessed.
It's been a busy afternoon.
Nope, you're right. That was a scary moment when I saw most of the Pittsburgh sideline calling for help.
Family if you see classless posts or posts that violate the TOS, help the staff out and report it. We will take care of it asap. We appreciate your help. Like I have said the last few games it is not always best to post during or immediately after a game.
Sorry for any of my own involvement in escalating tensions...thats really below me. I feel bad.
Here is a blurry image taken from my iphone (it's in HD so it's very clear in person )
Ike was starting to turn his shoulder forward for the hit, not his head. It was actually Pat who was sort of leading with his helmet.
Its a very hard thing to tackle with your shoulder pads and not expect to have a helmet to helmet hit every now and then. I mean both guys are running full speed and neither of them knows for sure what the other guy is going to do. Hate to see it but I don't fault anyone with the hit. If anything PW needs to learn to protect himself and step out of bounds and live to play another down.
PS. great photo.
So if someone says [player name goes here] makes a play 100% of a time, I cannot say that this is a lie? 100% is the same thing as always and that is likely statistically false.
You're basically saying to word it differently, which IMO is pointless. What the hell is the difference between calling the statement a lie or calling it incorrect; you're saying it's a false statement no matter how you word it. I understand the circumstances for some situations, but the one Stitches provided; I don't see much of a case.