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I am annoyed!

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by Ohiophinphan, Sep 20, 2008.

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  1. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Please pardon this but....

    RANT MODE ON

    I live in a parsonage next to a very large church building. It is clear even to a visitor that this house and the church are connected, same brick work, same landscaping, concrete walkways between the building, etc. I am finishining up work on a funeral sermon for a 52 year old woman who just died of cancer.

    Suddenly there is a knock on the door and two guys in ties are there. I immediately suspect who they are but as I open the door and try to hold back the dog, the older fellow asks, "We are asking folks in your neighborhood, with all the food problems in the world, do you think God is going to do anything about them?"

    I ask, "Who are you guys?" My tone is still quiet and friendly.

    They respond, "We are Jehovah's Witnesses."

    I say, "Good day" and begin to close the door. But then my frustration boils over and I step back to the porch and say, "I find it the height of arrogance for you folks to come to what is clearly the parsonage of a church to try and convert us. Please don't come to my door again!" My tone is still quiet but clearly I am angry.

    RANT MODE OFF

    I am not sure why these people bother me so much. When I was in a private home, I would just say good bye and close the door, but to the parsonage? I wouldn't dream of making a cold call on a Catholic rectory or a house connected to a mosque or synagouge. The word "arrogant" keeps coming to mind.

    I used to try to engage them but in my experiance I have yet to have one JW actually listen to what I said so I gave up.

    My question to all of you is, am I letting them get to me too much?, Any suggestions?
     
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  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    You are letting them get to you too much. Even though jerky, why would you want to let their actions have that much control over your well being.
     
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  3. FinsPensFan

    FinsPensFan Professional Slacker

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    Kudos to you, Ohio. I would have handled that with much more hostility.
     
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  4. Crappy Tipper

    Crappy Tipper AKA Hero13

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    And answering the door naked to them probably isn't a good answer for you.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ohio...Ohio...tsk tsk tsk...:wink2:

    They are deceived, what do you expect them to do?
     
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  6. The Rev

    The Rev Totus Tuus Administrator Luxury Box Club Member

    You can come by any time, Pastor...'cept on gameday and well..you know the rest. :lol:

    I have a friend in church who says, Those who anger you, control you."
    It's true but so hard to get away from.

    I think you try to love them as Christ loved us. With that being said, I also have another friend, who used to say. "Just because Jesus asked me to love you, doesn't mean that I have to like you." :wink2:
     
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  7. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    I have problems controlling my anger too. Rambam talks about anger and the need to control it, lest it control you.

    I'm reminded of a story that I heard from a Rabbi a few years ago.

    There was a girl with an exceedingly short temper. She would get angry all the time. Finally, her mother had her perform an exercise. Every time she would get angry she was to go to a fence post and hammer a nail into it. This happened dozens of times. Soon, she learned how to release her anxiety by hammering the nails. Now, the mother told her, every time you control your temper, you can remove a nail. Soon, all of the nails had been removed, but the holes in the fence post remained.
     
  8. FinsPensFan

    FinsPensFan Professional Slacker

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    That was deep, Miamian.
     
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  9. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    I just tell them that I believe in sex outside of marriage, that my four wives make all the decisions in my house and I need weekly blood transfusions to sober up. :up:



    j/k ;)

    It was an arrogant act and you have every right to be indignant.
     
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  10. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Your story reminds me of my stepfather who was Catholic. He lived for their visits and would sit them down at the kitchen table offering them a drink and smoke. Then, while having a drink and smoking, he would debate their every point. He was a wonderful man with only one real flaw he was a racist, oh, and he hated the Japanese because of Pearl Harbor. I learned alot from him even with his faults; he treated me as if I was his own, God bless him.

    I wish you well in your quest.:up:
     
  11. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    First off Brother Keith, you of course have absolutely every right to be Extremely Bothered.

    To me, this is analogic with going into a clear cut JETS bar, and demanding they understand why the Dolphins are better. Or the same as a JESTS troll coming into The Phins and demanding that the JETS are THE team and we all stop what we are doing, burn our Marino Jerseys and go buy Namath Jersey's instead.

    Second off, I agree COMPLETELY with the mindset I quoted above. Remember, they are coming into YOUR world. If they are inviting themselves into your house, they owe you the respect of listening to your version (Which is much closer to my version BTW) of the truth.


    Just my 2cents worth. :wink2:
     
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  12. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    I want to deeply thank all of you who listened to my rant, confirmed my indignation, and offered me humor, advice, and counsel.

    I fully support their right to be obnoxious, but I suppose I want to uphold my right to be annoyed!

    btw, the funeral went very well until the pallbearers brought the casket to the grave wrong. We said nothing but waited until all the family had left, then the two funeral home guys, the vault man, and I turned her around. The deceased would have enjoyed the humor!
     
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  13. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    You handled yourself correctly Ohio but the thing that sticks out to me is that a person so young (52) died of cancer. It just seems like that is all you hear anymore. :sad:
     
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  14. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nobody is immune. My mother died of cancer at 43.

    Anyways, I would be irritated too but on the other hand pretty much all religions are supposed to try to convert others. Yes it's bold but at the same time they probably feel it's their duty to at least make attempts with everybody. I mean if they were just trying to convert atheists they wouldn't have a huge population to preach to. Just tell them to go away in a civil way and you can all walk away feeling like you did the right thing.
     
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  15. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    That's terrible but the one thing I've learned through hearing all these situations is to take advantage of every day you and the ones you love have together. :yes:

    Anyway to move off of that depressing subject to this one, I just don't understand how anyone could knowingly walk to where a funeral was going on and do that. That's certainly something that anyone should know better than to do.
     
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  16. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    In fairness, I was preping for the funeral at the house. The funeral was next door at the church.
     
  17. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    Still come on they knew.
     
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  18. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    That's a very sweeping generality and it's incorrect.
     
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  19. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Most of them are supposed to. That is absolutely the truth. How could you think that you have found the path to salvation and just sit there and let others be damned? It's natural to try to convert others. No, they don't all walk door to door if that's what you are getting at. Their doctrine might not demand it but it's something mostly everybody thinks they should do if they have the chance.
     
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  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    they could believe that they are chosen
     
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  21. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    I would agree that most faiths have some form of proselytizing. It is always a discussion of how far one should push and in what fashion. To me cold calling at the door of the residence of a fellowship leader of a different faith group is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the line!
     
  22. HolliFinFan

    HolliFinFan Not a Face Painter Luxury Box

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    I lock my gate to them. But, I don't get annoyed. They're just pawns who believe they have to proslytize. It's an indoctrination, not so different from other forms; theirs is just more overt. To be honest, even the more subtle types annoy me, but I view it as an addiction, so, I feel sorry for them.
     
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  23. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    Well maybe its just me but I think you took it way too personal.

    You were at the house next to the Church right? I dont know how that whole place looks but if there's no clear cut fence surrounding the property to really say this is this and that is that, like the places here in Miami, then everything will look like anything especially to people who don't know. That the two places have similiar color, or stones, or whatever is irrelevant since its possible that they problably were not paying attention especially if they were young kids (or even in their 20's) like Ive seen the Mormons be on their bikes and all that. Now if they had to cross a fence and through property of the Church itself thats another story.

    Its funny that I have never been approached by a Jehovah's Witness but I have been by other religions (Mormon, Catholic ...and I think Pentecostal at one point) and no matter how annoying it might seem at the time I always just smile and treat them politely (kindly say "Thanks, but not right now" or "Thanks, but I am busy") since in the end no one really knows what is what and I am not taking any chances.
     
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  24. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    "Most" is a very different word from "all." Dupree, I think alluded to me and my brethren, and there is a degree of truth in that. Judaism does not turn away converts altogether but it does not encourage them either. In fact, usually Rabbis do turn away converts at first. It's only if they can demonstrate unwavering determination to go through a long and difficult process that they can convert. They end up knowing more than most naturally-born Jews and in Miami I usually turned to them for advice if the Rabbi was unavailable. Another member around here has a sister who did it and she now teaches Judaica.

    By the way, please accept my apologies for skipping the part about your mother. My condolences.
     
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  25. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    The whole Church proerty is surrounded by a low ornamental hedge, the parsonage are included in that edge. There is a sign on the edge of the parsonage lot which points out where handicapped parking is for the church. The younger guy was probably 20 something, the older fellow was middle 50's. Had either of what you suggested been the case, it would have been different. Like I said, when I lived in a private home, it wasn't an issue. They were part of Saturday mornings like the neighbor's lawn mower.

    Judiasm, among the major religions of the world, is the most reserved about incorporating folks into the faith. In the scriptures there is even a distinction betweeen Jews (folks born into the faith) and "God fearers" who worshipped Yahweh but were not sons or daughters of the 12 tribes.
     
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  26. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    Hrmmmmm...OK well I am problably stretching it a bit here but the handicapped parking thing is for handicapped parking. It doesn't really mean that the house is part of the Church.

    The hedge can or cannot be significant as from what I have seen when on vacation once to see my cousin up in Dayton, me and my wife thought it was strange to see how people didnt have clear cut fences and you couldnt really tell who's yard was who's and what was what. There was a kids playground in the middle of two houses. It was just different. Like for example, in front of my home here, there's a Christian based faith church. It has a small house similiar to what you are describing and to the north end there's also a private school. Thing is the entire property which is about the size of 7-8 football fields is surrounded by either a 4 ft. wooden see through type fence or an 8ft high metal fence. There is no mistaking whatsoever that you are walking into an area that is not part of the neighborhood homes with that kind of fencing. After that, there then is about a good 50 yards worth of grass and trees and a parking lot before you even come up to the house or the Church building.

    You know....what would be significant is if there is a parking lot in front of the house which combines the chruch and the house?...ala a mini mall type setup?
     
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  27. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    /rant on

    No, you didn't take it too personally at all. In fact, you took it not personally enough. If there's anything more arrogant, self-righteous and downright offensive than coming to your house - invading your privacy - to convert you to a religious belief (and pulling the old, manipulative not enough food trick to boot), I don't know what it is. These people, and I say this with no irony whatsoever, have to be treated as impolite as the law allows. I don't mind if they are doing it in public places - I've had some wonderful discussions with Mormon missionaries here in Germany and a great time telling a scientologist how stoned out of his skull Hubbard was when he made all his stuff up - but as soon as they invade my privacy with their self-satisfied belief that I have to be saved (and by them of all people), the gloves come off and the lawn sprinklers on.

    /rant off
     
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  28. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think you're giving them too much credit in thinking that they could tell that your house was affiliated with the church next door tbh. Assume they're just stupid and didnt know better and then they're no longer arrogant and you should no longer feel insulted, problem solved lol :wink2:
     
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  29. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    Would you get angry if you were drinking a Pepsi, and someone walks up and tries to sell you a Coke?
     
  30. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    I'm not sure a decision about a soft drink on the street equates to being approached about your faith on your own front porch. I don't think the two are a valid comparison.

    Perhaps for you, faith questions are that trivial. If so, that is your choice and I will respect it. For me, they are at the center of my being so I invest more in them than perhaps another person might.
     
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  31. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    They certainly aren't and yet the same principle applies to both of them: It constitutes a profound lack of respect - and a certain self-righteous arrogance - to approach and essentially criticize a complete stranger about the decisions he chose to make. If someone came to me on the streets and asked my why the heck I was drinking Pepsi and not Coke, I would basically tell him the same as I'd tell the Witnesses: None of your darn business.

    I'm a bit at a loss as to why I ought to respect someone who obviously has no respect whatsoever for me and my decisions. The Pepsi example is a bit silly, agreed, but there's some of the same principle involved. I genuinely respect any kind of religion out there as long as it's tolerant and peaceful, but I do draw the line at believers who consider it their duty to approach strangers and convert them. They obviously have no respect for my religion or non-religion, so I'm having none whatsoever for theirs.
     
  32. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    I wouldn't mind telling someone why I prefer Coke over Pepsi, even though it's an off-the-wall question and I've had people who have tried to tell me about how Jesus is the Messiah, even here. I think that I've been too polite.
     
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  33. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    you just answered your own question regarding this thread.
     
  34. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box


    another word to use is ignorant. they clearly do not see beyond their realm.
     
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  35. njfinfan

    njfinfan The First Lady

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    I'm very surprised they would come to a parsonage. They used to hide in cars in our neighborhood and if we walked by they would thrust a copy of "The Watchtower" in our hands. They've now become more aggressive, actually coming up and ringing the doorbell of our home. Our daughters have gotten into the habit of running in if they're outside playing to say "Here they come". When we lived in East Orange and they came by, I used to say "If I listen to your religion, you have to listen to mine." They never came back.
     
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  36. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    You're one smart lady Mary.
    My son does the same. He's a deacon at our church and loves to give his testimony to them, quote the Bible and ask questions. They've never gotten angry, but they leave pretty quickly.
    I don't down anyones religious beliefs, but I don't want them pushed on me. I never argue "religion". I'm a Christian with faith. I go to a Baptist church for teaching and fellowship, but I go to learn about the Lord and His ways, not to please anyone else. My pastor is a wonder, one of the most Godly, kind men I know. (with a terrific sense of humor also) He is also my friend. I'm lucky, I know, to have the kind of support I get at my church. And I truly get the same support on here, so I'm very blessed.
    Sorry girl, didn't mean to run on and on.
    Love you,
    Debby
     
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