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How will the Patriots fare?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by The Sportz Guy, May 12, 2015.

  1. The Sportz Guy

    The Sportz Guy New Member

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    I'm probably in the minority since we here don't exactly like the Patriots, but the NFL came down WAY too hard on New England in this instance. This is what I wrote concerning it:

    http://youngspeaksports.com/2015/05/11/nfl-lays-down-the-hammer-on-the-patriots/

    In the long run, I don't believe it will hurt New England much (especially since its reward was a Super Bowl). Outside of this year, the team only loses two draft picks, which isn't a big deal considering its ability to draft in the late rounds and grab undrafted free agents. This year, in a stacked AFC East, it will make a repeat a bit harder, though. It certainly helps Miami, so I'm not complaining.
     
  2. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    our luck?



    12-4
     
  3. The Sportz Guy

    The Sportz Guy New Member

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    Probably. Goes 0-4 with Garoppolo at helm, and Brady comes back and doesn't lose a game. Wouldn't shock me a bit.
     
  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    They lost Revis and Wilfork, Brady will be out 4 games, and all their competition in the AFC East got stronger. I don't think they win 10 games next year. I think for the first time since 2008, it will be another team that wins this division. We'll see.. (and hope of course)
     
  5. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Meh, if there's one thing they're really good at innovating it's cheating. They'll be okay as long as they hire smarter staff.
     
  6. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    With Brady, I think that they were the clear favorite against Jax, a solid favorite against Buffalo, a slight favorite against Pittsburgh, and Dallas was a pickem.

    Without Brady, I see Jax as a team that they will still likely beat, but I now give the Jags a punchers chance if they can force them into a few turnovers. I see Buffalo as basically a pickem game with the same caveats, but I think that Buffalo's defense is so good that they'll force those turnovers more likely than not. And I see both Pittsburgh and Dallas as clear favorites.

    Without Tom the Terrible, my guess is that they now go 2-2 at best, and 1-3 is absolutely possible, with a plausible chance of 0-4, where as with him, I think that 3-1 was most likely and 4-0 was next up.

    What that means to Miami is that since I think that 2-2 is our worst reasonable scenerio in that same frame, and 3-1 is the most likely, is that I feel we should come out of the first quarter of the season with an edge. The challenge will be then to maintain it. I think that the only way a Brady suspension had a huge effect on the division race would have been had he been suspended for 8 or more games.
     
  7. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    First off, we all know the Patriots are a great team. The type of team that could use this sort of 'setback' as motivation to go out and carve out yet another great season.

    However...

    There is also realistic chance that this scandal could have the opposite effect. Remember... Tiger Woods was, arguably, the most dominant professional athlete ever. He was trained by his father to handle tremendous pressure from the time when he was just a child. Then he was caught cheating by his wife. She infamously beat the snot out of him with a golf club. He was publicly humiliated. His career subsequently took a nose-dive.

    This situation is similar, IMO. This is not just opposing fans being jealous of the Patriots success on the field and giving them a little grief. They have been caught cheating... AGAIN... and, this time feels different to me. This time, it has resulted in the team's MVP being suspended. The team losing a 1st round pick. This has a very dark undertone to it. A "this-taints-the-entire-league" sort of undertone. Everywhere they turn, Belichick and Brady are going to hear about this. Certainly on the field, and certainly from opposing teams and fans when they are on the road.

    At the very least, I feel the Patriots legacy will be forever tainted. However, this could be more significant than we realize. We could be witnessing the beginning of the collapse of Belichick, Brady, and the Patriots.

    We shall see.
     
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  8. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree. This doesn't change anything because no one is switching sides. It's well documented that the Patriots are sneaky. Pretty much everyone outside of NE disliked them for that anyway so it doesn't change how anyone thinks of them. At the end of the day the most important thing is W/L and the Patriots are killing it in that stat.

    If deflating balls gave Tannehill a chance to throw for 4500 yards and 40 TDs, I'd advise him to do it in a heartbeat as long as he was going to get away with it. It's might against the rules but it's no more evil than how the seahawks play more physical in the Play-offs or how Ndamukong Suh has tried to injure people. If Miami was dominating the league I wouldn't really care what outsiders thought. If I was a Patriots fan, I would say that compared with 6 Super Bowl appearances, a few deflated footballs are peanuts and that it makes the critics sound bitter and hateful--which it does.



    I agree with Unlucky 13 that the Patriots are probably a 1- or 2-win football team over the season's first four weeks given that they had a tough opening schedule to begin with.
     
  9. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I dunno about the other three games but the Bills are going to beat NE, badly.
     
  10. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    I like to refer to him as Crappola
     
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  11. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

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    I think they'll be fine. They're a good team with a good coach and we don't know what they haven't been caught doing yet, that they will keep doing. :)
     
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  12. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    If you take into account the legacy of cheating they've built and sustained over the BB regime, there's no way in hell I can call them a "great" team. Sorry, it's just too much (spygate, helmet speaker, deflating, illegal formations against Baltimore that Brady stood at the podium and conceitedly said, "not my fault the Ravens can't read the rule book" and he was proven by the NFL to be in the wrong, no doubt various other things we don't know about because they just do that kinda thing). Helmet speaker ALONE removes Brady from any conversation of being one of the all-time greats in my opinion. He had the desire to win like Marino, the talent of a good, not elite QB, and a full cheating force behind making up for it. Even in the face of being COLD BUSTED at doing it, he's all cavalier and smug denying the whole fkng thing...absolutely horrible.

    If my team EVER did anything like they've done, they'd be promptly disowned until the ENTIRE organization and players involved were no longer employed by the team. Standards matter IMHO.

    That said, they're still a very good team, and Grappaho seems like he's good enough to get them 2-2 at best...with possibility of 0-4. He had a strong 2014 pre-season as I recall, and he looked pretty good, so you never know with BB...they could go 4-0. Wouldn't shock me.
     
  13. The Sportz Guy

    The Sportz Guy New Member

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    That may be a little extreme. If it was a half year or full year, then you may have a case. This doesn't quite wreak of the Saints' situation where Sean Payton was suspended a full year. In their case, the team hasn't been the same. For the Patriots, they only lose Brady for four games; they'll still have a chance to redeem themselves for 3/4 of the season. If the team doesn't rebound, you may have a point. As for as the cheating, I don't think New England cares what others think. It already went through Spygate and kept the foot on the pedal. The team has Belichick, Brady, and six Super Bowl appearances. They don't mind.
     
  14. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    No they sure as hell don't mind...that's the nutshell.
     
  15. The Sportz Guy

    The Sportz Guy New Member

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    The Patriots are a great team. You simply can't refute the winning and statistics. Although, I wouldn't title them as an "all-time great team" because of the cheating incidents. The ordeals you listed certainly taint the reputation of Brady, Belichick, and the organization, but it doesn't taint it far enough to simply deem the past 10-15 years as "good."
     
  16. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    You can't refute winning if the winning was almost all during an era of constant cheating? Well, that's you I guess. I can, and I do, and I will never forget. I hold grudges for a long time.
     
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  17. The Sportz Guy

    The Sportz Guy New Member

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    So you're telling me the ONLY reason the Pats won was because they cheated? The fact that they had one of the greatest coaches of all time, Bill Belichick, one of the best QBs, Tom Brady, and great defenses is simply irrelevant because of cheating scandals? Has some of the cheating given them a slight competitive advantage. Probably, but it doesn't take away from the teams they've fielded. The team still had to be effective on the field, and even last year it was obvious they were the best team in the NFL. I, by no means, condone their cheating. I have lost respect for the franchise because of it, but it doesn't completely take away its accomplishments. I'm obviously a Dolphins fan, as well, and don't like New England, but you have to open your eyes and see that for the past 10-15 years, the Patriots have been the kings of the NFL, and it's not just because of cheating.
     
  18. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    How much of that greatness was achieved by cheating? Case is closed on those sh*tstains. I open my eyes and see what would be a good/very good team made better by cheating their asses off through a long period...and the NFL basically letting them get away with it because they bring the $$. They maybe would've won 2 superbowls tops...and that's stretching it IMHO...without all the assistance. We'll never know the full depth of the sh*t they've pulled over the years...the NFL would lose big. The old saying goes, if you see one roach, there's 100 more in hiding...I believe it FULLY applies to the Cheatriots.

    They're garbage.
     
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  19. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    We'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
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  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I never said it was the only reason, just that it was part of the reason. Did it make a few 10 win teams into 12 win teams? Turn a 4th seed into a 2nd seed and a bye? Those are HUGE deals. And unforgivable.
     
  21. The Sportz Guy

    The Sportz Guy New Member

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    I think you're blinded by your bias. Cheating alone does not win you a Super Bowl. That's asinine. How much do you think slightly deflating a football helps? When the ball was under regulation psi, the Patriots outscored the Colts by even more. Spygate was just one instance, as well, and the team still has to incorporate the information it knows and go and execute it on the field. I honestly don't know much about the speakers in helmets incident. All in all, the cheating hasn't been enough to propel the Patriots into a Super Bowl. We don't know whether they would have won/lost without some of these incidents (how can we assume the cheating didn't negatively affect the team?). The team earned those wins with its play on the field.
     
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    This is all assuming, of course, that the other teams throughout all those years weren't also doing shady stuff. With all the stuff coming out in regards to the ball issues, I would say it's very naive to think ONLY the Patriots have been doing this. Not that that in any way changes what their punishment should be, though.
     
  23. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I never said cheating alone won the championships...nor would I.

    The team may have "earned" the wins with play on the field, but how did they put themselves in that situation TO earn the wins?

    And you're right, we don't know whether they would have or would have not won without cheating...but the very fact that they continue to REPEATEDLY cheat should tell you something...

    Talking about biased, I'd say you're pretty biased toward the Cheatriots, ignoring plenty of data and evidence that shows just how much the ball being under-inflated impacts play.

    And how do you deflect the helmet communications cheating they were doing? That couldn't have helped right?

    Talk about asinine.
     
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  24. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes... I know Brady is out for only 4 games. I was talking about the psychological toll something like this can have on an athlete, and how it can have a negative effect on that athlete's career.
     
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  25. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    The Pats started last season 2-2 with Brady. They went 11-5 without Brady and a QB that had not started a game since high school. Their ability to play dirty, play smart, cheat, and be fundamentally sound is why they have been so dominate. They don't need Brady. They need a half way decent QB and their HC's dirty antics to win.

    I think they go at least 2-2 to start the season. I'd bet a good amount of money that they go 3-1 though.
     
  26. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    I couldnt disagree more. If it didn't "propel" them to championships in particular, and wins in general, why take the risk? They were calculated and unapologetic in their ways. And their ways are to cheat. I mean, you contradict yourself in your own post. The fact that we don't know how many games were won due to cheating is what makes it so bad.
     
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  27. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Listen I dislike the Pats, not all of them but most of them and Im being sincere when I say that I believe this suspension is going to HELP the patriots. Brady isn't a spring chicken anymore. So he's going to get full training camp, preseason, and than rest for a few weeks. When he comes back he will be rested, pissed off and playing with a chip on his shoulder. I can see them going on a tear when he gets back. The first four games are not going to remove you from the playoffs unless you go 0-4 but I don't see that happening to them. 2-2 at worst IMHO. Clearly not out of contention.

    Wish we could say hes suspended the last 4 games of the season when it means something..
     
  28. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Not to mention Brady went 37/50 and 4 TD's in the superbowl... NE isn't going to fold up because of 1-1.5 PSI. They're still a talented team and still the best coached. Wouldn't shock me if NE throws a tantrum like they did in 2007 and just run up scores week after week to prove a point. And I don't feel confident Brady is going to serve a single game of his suspension, especially if he takes the NFL to court. There's no way any judge upholds this suspension.
     
  29. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    And that is fine. But he still did it and everyone knows it. If he gets off it's because he takes it to court and it's based solely off of technicalities. Still, blah.
     
  30. The Sportz Guy

    The Sportz Guy New Member

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    The cheating did not alone propel them into Super Bowls. I'm sure New England did some of these things to try to gain a competitive advantage, and whether the cheating actually was the sole factor for the victories, is up in the air. Many players have said they do different things to gain competitive advantages through the years, but we don't condemn them. I don't condone the Patriots' cheating and do believe they should have been punished, but the punishment handed out was excessive. How the NFL punishes a player who knew of the minor deflation of the football more than a player who beat his girlfriend is beyond me.
     
  31. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Again, I don't know that anyone is saying that it's the sole factor. It never has or had to be. If a game against a good team comes down to one play, and they gained an advantage by cheating on one play during that game, then they won a game that they should not have, even if all other plays were clean. If that happened two or three times in a season, then they almost certainly gained a higher playoff seed than they should have, and played games in Foxboro that should have been played elsewhere. Ergo, the AFC was screwed by their cheating. I think that its an easy concept to grasp.

    And to think that they cheated on just one play is hilarious. But that would have been all it would have needed some of the time.
     
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  32. The Sportz Guy

    The Sportz Guy New Member

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    I think Brady is a different breed, though. He's the type who will use this as motivation rather than whine about it. Tiger Woods fits that mold, but his crime was different than Brady's. His reputation was pristine, and it comes out that he cheated on his wife with 20+ mistresses? OUCH. Also, you have to factor in the decline of Woods' health. His injuries have played as large of a role in his demise.
     
  33. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I look forward to seeing what new forms of cheating they attempt this year
     
  34. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    About what ? Oh, wait, for getting caught. Got it.
     
  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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  36. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    They'll win the division as usual
     
  37. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

  38. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    Of course beating a woman is worse. However, beating your girlfriend doesn't affect the game of football. Cheating does.

    If I get drunk tonight my work will not care. If I get drunk at work I'll get fired.

    The problem is that the NFL is trying to control it's image through it's players AFTER the fact. If the NFL cared about it's image, like they say they do, then they wouldn't hire certain players. They do, however, because some talented players are criminals.

    In real life, beating a woman is worse than anything you can do on the football field. However, in the game of football, cheating is the worst thing a player can do.
     
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  39. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    Brady whines more than any person in the NFL. He's fragile when things don't go his way.
     
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  40. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    They remind me of Nixon. They're hedging their bets any way they can.

    The Phins would be wise to use sensors for low frequency microwaves and electromagnetic waves being shot at them or any of their facilities...
     

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