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How Optimistic Are You on A Scale Of 1 to 10 About Our Future?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by AGuyNamedAlex, Jan 1, 2020.

See Thread Title

This poll will close on Apr 1, 2020 at 1:28 PM.
  1. 1 - End the misery please

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. 2 - All hope is lost

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  3. 3 - I'm fairly pessimistic

    5 vote(s)
    10.2%
  4. 4 - I'm pessimistic but all hope isnt lost.

    5 vote(s)
    10.2%
  5. 5 - I see equal good and bad so far.

    4 vote(s)
    8.2%
  6. 6 - I have reservations but am fairly optimistic

    13 vote(s)
    26.5%
  7. 7 - I'm very positive but recognize things can always be better.

    7 vote(s)
    14.3%
  8. 8 - I believe we are possibly on the cusp of something special

    8 vote(s)
    16.3%
  9. 9 - I havent been this optimistic in a long time about our staff/future

    4 vote(s)
    8.2%
  10. 10 - We are building a dynasty

    2 vote(s)
    4.1%
  1. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I want to take this poll before and after the draft, then again next year.

    How positive or negative are you about our future? This includes everyone on the staff and field from Ross downward. If you love Flores but hate Grier make sure to weigh that in your response or the reverse if true.

    Also want to point out the description next to each is a general guideline and fun, not necessarily exactly how you feel.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
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  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I went with choice 6.
     
  3. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    It's never hopeless, but I don't like the moves the team has made this year and I don't trust them to handle the draft picks they have well enough to improve the team. We traded away young, talented players to get draft picks to hopefully pick up OTHER young, talented players. But why not just keep the young, talented players we already had and try to use them the right way? All we did was create holes we now have to fill. It's like trying to build a house at the same time you're ripping the foundation out you just laid.
     
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  4. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I went with #4 myself.

    I recognize good things we did this year and good traits our staff has in certain areas.

    At the same time, most of what you said is accurate to me and some of the moves have me concerned about our team and staff building philosophy.

    I think I'll either be much more or much less positive after the draft and FA period seeing what moves we make.
     
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  5. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I voted 8 based on Flores winning 5 games with probably the least talented roster in the NFL. Seeing Gesicki and Parker flourish under good coaching really drove it home for me.

    The reason I didn’t vote 10 is Grier doesn’t have my full trust.
     
  6. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

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    New Contractor working on the foundation now. And when does building a house ever go smooth?
     
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  7. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I went 8. My initial gut was 7 but I love Flores and the draft capital / FA money we have.

    When I see what he did with the UDFA secondary, WR improvements and passing offense, I can't help but get excited when we have a legit running game, OL and team to build around.

    I'm to the point where my obsession with a franchise QB has subsided, I think Flores will build a team that won't require it as desperately as say a Gase led team. That's why I'm ok with Fitz for one more year and bypassing QB's entirely if nobody excites Miami this upcoming draft.
     
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  8. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    I went with option #6. Based mostly on the incredible potential the team has with all the picks and cap space. Concerns about Grier and the rest are valid though. How can Tanny be so good now with the Titans? A dominate running game and average OL? Maybe part of it being that Tanny went in with no real expectations on him and is now playing relaxed? Not stressing over how he was instructed to stand in the pocket and go through his reads? I don't know, the playoff game versus the Pats will tell us A LOT about his mindset now.

    Trading Minkah and watching him have an incredible season at safety as he wanted? That hurts, but he was more of a final piece to that defense compared to the mess Miami had. It does show he was as talented as expected when drafted, but not with the humble attitude that was expected.

    Drake? Well, he thrived the perfect offense for him. Difficult to believe we couldn't have found a way to use him in Miami though, but again it was probably an attitude issue.

    Rosen? We gave up a valuable second rounder for a couple bad games. There was a ton of film on him, IN THE NFL, and they still seem to have whiffed by picking him up.

    Tunsil? It was a fortune in draft picks, but if the Texans keep winning both those first rounders COMBINED will about equal the value of that #13 pick we spent. I guess there is the cap spaced saved, but at some point you have to hang onto your young talent. I will say that injuries could wreck the Texans in 2020 and we could own a top 3 pick from them. A bit like buying a lottery ticket I guess.

    And none of the above moves will matter all that much in the grand scheme of things..... IF they get the right QB for Miami. I'm going to keep bringing this up, but look at the Bears. They picked the wrong QB and are STILL going into 2020 with him, as the only other option is to admit to massive failure. The Bears did SO MUCH RIGHT in building that team, and yet by whiffing on the QB selection nothing else they did will matter all that much. Unless 7 to 9 wins a season was the goal.

    I hope Grier gets it right, but you can argue he already whiffed on Tanny (not seeing his full potential) who was right in front of him for years, so I can't be more than cautiously optimistic right now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
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  9. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill was not going to have the same success here with no OL or running game.
    In fact, Fitz probably would have outplayed him this season.

    He's in the perfect situation in Ten. Maybe Miami will have a similar setup next year but it was two years too late for Tanny.
     
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  10. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    So, it was too hard to get him a stud running back and fix the OL going forward? Easier to find a QB that can thrive without a running game and OL? I won't excuse Grier for missing on what Tanny could be with some help. Yeah, it seemed past time to move on, but it's literally Grier's job to figure out things like that. Otherwise, any one of us could come in and make the obvious and easy decisions.
     
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  11. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The plan was to tear down the team and get rid of bad contracts/ malcontents.

    If Miami saw that Tannehill was fully recovered from the shoulder injury and playing at 2016 levels then maybe you have a point. It was a risk not worth taking at the time as nobody could have predicted his resurgence and dominance.
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Some people did predict, however, since Miami could only get a 4th, none of those people were NFL GMs
     
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  13. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Or more credit to the Titan GM, as why would you pay more than necessary if you're the only one who thinks Tanny could be good with a run game and OL? Anyone could have drafted Andrew Luck, it took more insight to grab Mahomes, Lamar, or Watson.

    Was Grier not in the perfect position to project the best that Tanny could be? Yet he didn't or couldn't and moved on in exchange for peanuts.
     
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  14. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Six for me. Flores' year 1 performance was beyond expectation ... but it needs to be repeatable and sustainable. Only more time will show it the correct choice. See Sparano era for an example of exciting first year followed by less upbeat results.

    Also need to see how we handle these drafts, who we pick for a QB and how the new OC performs and if they can get at least an average rushing attack and line performance to go along with our success in the passing game and development of receiving targets. As much as we can appreciate Fitzmagic this year, it's a song and dance he has played often - good year followed by bad. We need a good, young QB waiting to take the reigns after the inevitable slump. We also need to find a passrush.

    Ultimately, I am more excited than I thought I would be, but we still have a LOT of work to do.
     
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  15. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I was a lot more positive on Sunday than I am today. Then, I would have probably answered a 7. Now, I chose 5. I thought about choosing 4.
     
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  16. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I'm surprised it took this long for this type of thread to be created. :pity:
     
  17. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Why the sad face? As fans, isn't this a completely normal thing to do?
     
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  18. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    #6 for me.
    There were 3 or 4 choices I could have gone with depending on interpretation.
    I consider this a successful season even with only 5 wins. It ended on a very high note instead of a loss.
    Good idea doing another poll after the draft. It'll give us an idea what the vision is.
     
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  19. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    The word "fan" is a derivative of the word "fanatic" or "fanatical" which is typically an irrational person. We "fans" tend to overreact in a knee jerk fashion that it's only after time has passed that rationality takes hold and proves our reactions to be quite silly.

    This thread is no exception.
     
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  20. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Why is it a bad thing to gauge perspective and ask others opinions? I dont get what you think the thread is.

    There is going to be nothing to talk about for months. Feel free to make your own better thread?
     
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  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    And that's what's makes it fun for me, and others. I'm not here for logic, or to be a professional. I'm here because I care deeply and passionately for something which I have zero control over.
     
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I see no issue with asking people what their expectations are. Kinda three whole point of a forum.
     
  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I went with #2, the lowest response so far....not because "all hope is lost" but because I'm less certain than the #3 answer, "I'm fairly pessimistic."

    My reason for feeling that way is Grier and the sheer amount of quality talent we shed in the past 12 months. I do like Flores and I believe he could turn into an excellent long-term coach, but without the right GM and the right players on the field I don't think any coach can make a playoff appearance once (much less "perennial championship contender"). I simply have no faith in Grier because he hasn't done anything YET to make me feel anything different.

    I'll also be the first to admit I'm wrong though and if the draft leads to a 9+ win season with the right quarterback in place, my 2 will turn into something between a 7 and a 9 overnight. That's A LOT to happen in one year though and I hate that our fate is in the hands of one single person (Grier) who's 100% unproven. It's honestly the biggest gamble in the history of football and the odds are not in our favor for this to end well in the next 12-24 months.

    As I said though, if it does all work out I'll be ecstatic....but that's why I'm not a gambler. Give me the safe bet every day of the week and let other teams chase that super-elusive jackpot. And if Flores "craps out" as expected, I'll sadly remind you that I said this exact same thing the day he was hired; what he's promised to deliver is almost impossible and Ross is a fool for buying into it.

    I'll add one more thing- I've been on this forum for over a decade and most of you have given me a hard time for always being way too optimistic. Just last weekend when I said we'd hang with the Pats and possibly make a Miracle in Miami Part II, Gillette Edition...I got nothing but blow-back. The same happened the year before when I said our team was about to go on a 6-win streak...I almost always see potential and hop on the bandwagon.

    This thing with Grier is so different though because it's 100% Grier's show and anyone who questions it is instantly fired or traded...he's building his vision no matter what and we assume that the ideal players are just naturally going to be there waiting for us at every given turn. I don't think what he wants to accomplish can happen across even three seasons (not counting the one we just had) and by the time we do reach year 4 or 5, people will have completely abandoned this path and we won't see it come to fruition either way.

    I have a very strong feeling that we're wasting the next 2-3 seasons for absolutely nothing....no franchise QB and no perennial championship contender. And hey, I'd love to be 100% dead wrong here, but go through my posts for the past decade plus and show me anyone with a better track record of predictions. Unfortunately I'm right more than I'm wrong and I have a sickening feeling about Grier.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  24. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    SPINAL TAP!!! turn it up to 11 and rip the flipping knob off!!!!!

    :butthead::guitar::rimshot:
     
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  25. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    well so do I, but after living through the DECADES of disappointment as I have, after a while you gotta put some things in perspective and look at things logically. If you don't, you're going to be so high strung that your wife isn't going to want to have anything to do with you lol.
     
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  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Nothing that happens in North American professional sports remotely compares to Hitler's Nazi Germany. Good grief.:pity:
     
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  27. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    My wife and I went on our first date just days before the start of the 2004 season. Weve been together 15 years, and shes never known any good times for the Fins. I keep promising her how much happier I'll be when it eventually gets better!
     
  28. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Key, we frequently agree but I have to disagree with you here. I'm still digesting the season, so I can't make an overall opinion on expectations, but one thing you point to, Grier's gutting of the roster as a negative. While I admit it caught me off guard initially, trading left and right I'm reminded of what Jerry Jones/Jimmy Johnson did when they took over the Cowboys. They GUTTED their roster and made the insane monstrous trade of Hershel Walker to the Minnesota Vikings. Cowboys fans lost their freaking minds and went after Jones with pitchforks. But how did that pan out ultimately? Three Super Bowl victories in 4 years. I was no fan of the Cowboys...despised them and wished they all would die a slow death of crotch rot...that's how much I hated the Cowboys however...I always RESPECTED Tom Landry and what he accomplished. So his firing and the gutting of their roster angered me as I felt it was a betrayal to the organization. The thing is though, that's what NEEDED to happen.

    I hate the fact we lost so many good players...Tannehill, Tunsil, Stills, et al...we were ridding ourselves of our GREAT players. WTF, over? Well, if we're going to change the environment, then we have to get rid of the baggage. I'm going to reserve judgment until the 2021 season before I go off half cocked.
     
  29. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Your marriage to your wife is GREATER than any season or era the Dolphins will ever have! :wink2:
     
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  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's 100% fine to reserve judgement- we were asked what our opinion was today though and I gave mine.

    You also have to remember that Jimmy Johnson came to Miami and tried to do the same thing- gutting the roster, signing half of Dallas's roster and expecting a quick turnaround. Not only did it not work, but that kicked off the pattern that we're still in today....firing a coach and GM every few years while hoping the next one will get it right. It's more than a long shot for this to work and like I said, I just don't like taking those types of gambles.

    It's okay for us to disagree though...my kids do that with me every single day! =)
     
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  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    LMAO, what are you trying to say about his wife? How do you know? LOL!
     
  32. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    If he's been with her for 15 years...:wink2:
     
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  33. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    That's why I go to the bar to watch now. If I stay home for a game all the girls go lock themselves in the bedroom and don't come out til the games over. But it's been 21 years now, wife doesn't want anything to do with me even if it's not football season.
     
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  34. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    I was probably a 7 or 8 before Chan Gailey and Howard. Now it’s a 4.
     
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  35. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  36. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Chan Gailely?
    I wanted to pick 8 but hit the 5 because I'm just not as sure as I'd like to be. We will see.
    Chan Gailely?
    Chan Gailely?
    The draft will be fun to watch.
    Chan Gailely?
     
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  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I would also have voted 7 or 8 if this poll had been posted before Gailey.

    FinD's perspective has mellowed my queasiness over that hire. I hope he's right.
     
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  38. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I was at 8 before Gailey hire.. im at a 5 at the moment .. could jump up after free agency and the draft
     
  39. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I am at a 7. I really think Flores was a great hire. Not only was he able to win 5 games with this roster, there were many games in which we looked like the better team for the entire 60 minutes.

    Unfortunately, I do cannot go hire because of Grier and Ross. Ross loves the splashy move, and I could see a blockbuster trade to move up to get an injured QB. I know Ross is a business man, and I gotta think that he of all people understands risk vs. reward and the ability to walk away from a deal. I just hope he can apply it to the his NFL team.

    Grier has a long track record on a team with a poor track record of drafting. I don't know that we will ever know who exactly was making the final choices during his time with the team, but I certainly know he was part of the process. This year he will have the benefit of volume, but we really need to not only hit, but walk away with pro bowlers.

    Also, in recent years, I have never been able to see a "grand vision" of what Grier wants our team to look like based on his draft picks. It feels like a hodgepodge of guys at various positions.

    As a general thought experiment, look at just the positions taken by the Dolphins (or any other team) in the first four rounds of the last three years, and ask yourself, "How do you think that this team envisions itself winning games?"

    Here are the Dolphins' picks:
    2019
    DT
    Young QB (Trade)
    G
    Aging DE (Trade)

    2018
    S
    TE
    OLB
    TE
    RB

    2017
    DE
    LB
    CB
    Traded pick used in 2016

    If I didn't know what team this is, and you asked me, "How it envisions itself winning games?" I would tell you that they were trying to do some sort of power running game with double tight end formations based on the 2018 draft.

    As far as defense is going, I would guess that it was trying to attack the QB from the outside - this is not really a scheme or identity. I feel like the picks almost tell you that they failed in 2017 in finding that edge, and in 2019, they tried to make up for their mistakes.

    Now, if you look back to the Parcells era in Miami, you could definitely see a difference. You could clearly see a man who was tying to build units and address certain problems. Let's take a look at his classes:

    2009
    CB
    QB
    CB
    WR
    WR

    2008
    T
    DE
    QB
    DE
    T

    If you look at his brief tenure, and asked, "How do you think that this team envisions winning?"

    First and foremost, I would say, "QB play is important." I think Pat White may be a curveball, but whatever. I think that the team wanted to set a young QB up with a solid offensive line. This team looks like it wants to pass the ball and values good receivers, and moreover wants to set the QB up for success.

    Defensively, it appears that this team wants to rush the passer, get the ball out of his hands quickly, and have solid corners to make sure that these passes are defended. The staff wants this to be a hard team to pass on.

    Now obviously, not all of the players panned out. Even the best are gonna miss a certain amount of picks, but my point is that this is a man that is not just picking players, he is building a team with a vision in mind.
     
  40. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Key, do you honestly think that all of the decisions were made by Grier alone because I highly doubt that Flores, Allen & McKenzie weren't involved in this.
    Also, in terms of the talent we have let go, apart from RT & Minkah (who has lucked into a lot of his big plays), who else is tearing up the field. Drake has had 2/3 decent games (and he didn't want to sign a new contract), Tunsil has missed a few games and we would have had to pay him this year (with that money, we should be able to get 3-4 good players), Stills (no), Taylor (No), McDonald (no), Wake (was playing ok but has been on IR & wouldn't fit the system), the DE that went to Dallas (who's name completely escapes me - no and also wouldn't fit the system).
    Again, the free agency & the draft is not just Grier - do I know how it's going to go, of course not but we have good people in place that on the outside, seemed to know what they are doing.
    And has already been said, there is nothing here that compares to Nazi Germany, ridiculous comment
     

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