Hints at Dolphins Trading Up in Draft

"texanphinatic wrote:

I would have to disagree. I think our win over the Patriots - in a game they really had a lot to play for - showed the league they weren't the same team to be feared. It broke that aura of invincibility, of inevitableness. It stuck them in round 1 (which they have consistently avoided) and lead to them losing. It might lead to Brady leaving, and they have nothing behind him. Even if he comes back, who is fearing the Patriots next year? Who is going to crown them? Nobody. It was a good win, a fun win and good day.

I dont think teams would fear them the same even if they won it all.

Regardless of whether they won or lost Brady is aging the same. So in the end like I said, I'm not sure it matters too much. Next season will play through on it's own merit.

Losing to the Titans was a bigger blow IMO. They still lost that game at home, so it's kind of hard to argue that losing home field hurt them too badly. If anything losing the week off was worse, but they were still at home.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I think the issue with this is you're projecting a lot of this year forward.

The honest truth is once the final down is played, nothing really matters that happened this year except finding guys for the future.

Even if NE wins the Superbowl this year, Brady is still old, regressing, and may bot come back to NE regardless.

I dont think our win had any long term impact on the future. I'd personally rather have lost all our games we won by 1 point and played them tough. That would have been as or more impactful than winning.

That said, our record was our record and it cant change now.

And I think you're projecting anger for the Dolphins winning for no reason. If we had the #2 or #3 overall pick, we'd take Tua. At #5, we'll take Tua. There's no difference in our strategy other than giving up a 2nd 1st if we move up.

But what that franchise gained from the wins is so much more important- rookies and new players were lighting people up in that secondary. Fitz was playing like he was 20 years old. That team was so hyped up that they knocked off the defending SB champs in their house....where only 1 other AFC East team has won in the past decade. Those first seven losses had people like Minkah wanting to jump ship; the five wins stopped all that talk and made it where free agents actually changed their mind about Miami. I mean, if that bunch of nobodies could humiliate the Pats...imagine what they'd do with a little talent on the field. People took notice.

Honestly, 2019 may well end up our organization's most important season of the past two decades because it showed a shift in philosophies- the players actually believed in the system and bought in, playing well above their pay grades. If the Pats finally start to crumble as well (which they basically already have) then those five wins mean the world for this team and their projection.

Trading up for Tua, if needed, is absolutely the right thing to do as long as he keeps progressing in regards to his injury. Coming away from this draft without one of the better QB prospects to come out of college over the last 10-15 years is just dumb and reckless.

Again, if Tua is medically cleared, you do anything you can to draft him.

"KeyFin wrote:

And I think you're projecting anger for the Dolphins winning for no reason. If we had the #2 or #3 overall pick, we'd take Tua. At #5, we'll take Tua. There's no difference in our strategy other than giving up a 2nd 1st if we move up.

But what that franchise gained from the wins is so much more important- rookies and new players were lighting people up in that secondary. Fitz was playing like he was 20 years old. That team was so hyped up that they knocked off the defending SB champs in their house....where only 1 other AFC East team has won in the past decade. Those first seven losses had people like Minkah wanting to jump ship; the five wins stopped all that talk and made it where free agents actually changed their mind about Miami. I mean, if that bunch of nobodies could humiliate the Pats...imagine what they'd do with a little talent on the field. People took notice.

Honestly, 2019 may well end up our organization's most important season of the past two decades because it showed a shift in philosophies- the players actually believed in the system and bought in, playing well above their pay grades. If the Pats finally start to crumble as well (which they basically already have) then those five wins mean the world for this team and their projection.

I'm not angry, I just don't think it will benefit us long term. There is a big difference.

Most of these guys arent really in the future plans I'd assume. I dont really see how anything we did can impact the future. We've had playoff years where we fought hard and it didnt positively impact our future for instance and that is a much bigger deal in the NFL.

It is hard to know what is the proper move without knowing his health. I am inclined to think that standing pat and taking him at 5 if he is there is the play. If he isn't then we get a damn good player and still have the remaining picks. I will pry get lynched for this suggestion, especially it being my first post, but I would kind of like to go after Winston if unable to land Tua at 5. We know his upside if he can get his head screwed on straight. Would have a very talented QB and preserve all of the equity we have built up.

"royalfan wrote:

It is hard to know what is the proper move without knowing his health. I am inclined to think that standing pat and taking him at 5 if he is there is the play. If he isn't then we get a damn good player and still have the remaining picks. I will pry get lynched for this suggestion, especially it being my first post, but I would kind of like to go after Winston if unable to land Tua at 5. We know his upside if he can get his head screwed on straight. Would have a very talented QB and preserve all of the equity we have built up.

If Bruce Arians can't fix Winston what makes you think Chan Gailey can?

He just seems destined to be one of those guys who tantalize but can't get past fatal flaws. I'd leave his W fingers elsewhere.

Rumors popping up this afternoon about the Lions thinking of trading Stafford BTW. The report seems based on social media posts from Staffords wife indicating if Detroit isn't happy with Matt she wouldn't mind going to LA. Lions GM Quinn says there are 100% no trade rumors, but it's an odd situation.

Also to reiterate, there is 0 indication of Quinn being anything but a below average to bad GM. I suspect if Tuas health remains good, we talk hard with Washington. Passing on Young would be tough, but they have a good DL and could be left in position to take Okudah or Simmons at 5, both huge needs.

More that I trust Winston to fix it. What allows him to lead the league in TD's and yards(I think) is the incredible talent. It obviously isn't going to happen anyway, so you can rest easy. I just think a plan like that is worth the risk rather than trading valuable picks away to move a couple spots. He did get lasik done after all, maybe he can see now:)

"royalfan wrote:

More that I trust Winston to fix it. What allows him to lead the league in TD's and yards(I think) is the incredible talent. It obviously isn't going to happen anyway, so you can rest easy. I just think a plan like that is worth the risk rather than trading valuable picks away to move a couple spots. He did get lasik done after all, maybe he can see now:)

Welcome aboard. Drinks on you rookie!

I'd stay away from Winston. I said before he was drafted that he lacked the ability to be a top QB. It's not physical ability he lacks, it's the ability to manage himself, his team and a game. Hes never really had it and I doubt at this point he ever will.

His lack of concern for protecting the ball is what allows him to put up both his great and terrible numbers.

Yeah i wouldn't even bother watching this year if Crab legs is our QB.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I'm not angry, I just don't think it will benefit us long term. There is a big difference.

Most of these guys arent really in the future plans I'd assume. I dont really see how anything we did can impact the future. We've had playoff years where we fought hard and it didnt positively impact our future for instance and that is a much bigger deal in the NFL.

But it's already benefited us in several ways-

1) New England is scampering to figure out what to do if Brady doesn't return....plus they looked down-right pedestrian with two straight losses (to Miami quarterbacks, nonetheless).

2) Most of those guys might not be in our future, but the ones who return have 100% bought into Flores and this team. Week 17 was basically a Wildcard game for the Pats that they had to win, in New England...you may as well say the Dolphins had a playoff win this year despite having the worst roster in the league.

3) Because of that win, Burrow, Tua and others have hinted they'd like to play in Miami. Free agents are reaching out to us seeing if there's a fit as well...that hasn't happened in a very long time. Heck, Brady's wife mentioned that she'd like to move to Miami this off-season if Tom could play down there! That BETTER NOT happen but still...we're a desirable landing spot.

Everything that's happened with this team since around week 10 has been nothing but positive...and the league definitely takes notice. That doesn't mean we'll be competitive next year but at the same time, it's impossible to say that we're not on the right path as a young franchise. And that's all you can really ask for in this situation, to be trending the right way and making believers in this team.

"KeyFin wrote:

But it's already benefited us in several ways-

1) New England is scampering to figure out what to do if Brady doesn't return....plus they looked down-right pedestrian with two straight losses (to Miami quarterbacks, nonetheless).

2) Most of those guys might not be in our future, but the ones who return have 100% bought into Flores and this team. Week 17 was basically a Wildcard game for the Pats that they had to win, in New England...you may as well say the Dolphins had a playoff win this year despite having the worst roster in the league.

3) Because of that win, Burrow, Tua and others have hinted they'd like to play in Miami. Free agents are reaching out to us seeing if there's a fit as well...that hasn't happened in a very long time. Heck, Brady's wife mentioned that she'd like to move to Miami this off-season if Tom could play down there! That BETTER NOT happen but still...we're a desirable landing spot.

Everything that's happened with this team since around week 10 has been nothing but positive...and the league definitely takes notice. That doesn't mean we'll be competitive next year but at the same time, it's impossible to say that we're not on the right path as a young franchise. And that's all you can really ask for in this situation, to be trending the right way and making believers in this team.

I don't know Key. As much as I hate Marsha and everything he represents, if he could pull a Bum Phillips on Bellyache... That would be kinda sweet.

For you young 'uns:

Bum Phillips was coach of the Houston Oilers. He famously said about the Don, "He can take his'n and beat your'n and then take your'n and beat his'n"

Still don't want nothin' to do with it, but you gotta admit that would be delicious irony.

You found a head coach that demonstrated he is capable of winning with the most depleted roster in the game, thise wins were not meaningless..

So you’ve got your coach, now go get your Qb.

Patriots resign Brady at a cut price and BB trades him and picks to claim the #1 spot for Burrow!

Ugly thought.

"xphinfanx wrote:

Patriots resign Brady at a cut price and BB trades him and picks to claim the #1 spot for Burrow!

Ugly thought.

Which is why I would move up, if necessary, to #1 to take Burrow, were I convinced that he was all that and a bag of chips. If the team thinks he is as good as many think, do it. If not, play for somebody else. I just have some reservations about Tua, and I hope they are wrong, about his standing up to professional style play from DL and LB.

"xphinfanx wrote:

Patriots resign Brady at a cut price and BB trades him and picks to claim the #1 spot for Burrow!

Ugly thought.

And just about impossible. Most contracts have clauses against this. Brady would have to agree to it before he resigned.

I’ve already succumbed to what this year’s draft is going to result in...

The Dolphins are going to draft Tua with it’s first pick at number 5 overall. The only way this will not happen is if another quarterback pressed team trades up to select him ahead of us. Miami is NOT going to trade up. We have way too much draft capital to do such a foolish thing for ONE player and for long term success, there are so many options the Dolphins have with this many draft picks.

Miami will use its remaining picks to shore up the trenches in both sides of the ball. After all, games are won or lost at the line of scrimmage. I can see Miami trading back on one of its first round picks, but it’s not going to happen with the first overall pick.

Flores proved to me last season what he can do as a head coach. He took a roster void of talent and head to head against playoff teams in the Eagles and the Patriots. I can only imagine what he’ll be able to do with a talented roster built young and for longevity.

If Grier and Flores can build this team to play hard nosed, in your face smash mouth football like the Titans this year, giving a young Tua enough weapons so it doesn’t have to be HIM as the every down playmaker, teams are going to be worried when the see the Dolphins on their schedule.

Defensively, that DL and secondary has got to be shored up. We have to be able to create turnovers and force teams into 3 and outs consistently

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I’ve already succumbed to what this year’s draft is going to result in...

The Dolphins are going to draft Tua with it’s first pick at number 5 overall. The only way this will not happen is if another quarterback pressed team trades up to select him ahead of us. Miami is NOT going to trade up. We have way too much draft capital to do such a foolish thing for ONE player and for long term success, there are so many options the Dolphins have with this many draft picks.

Miami will use its remaining picks to shore up the trenches in both sides of the ball. After all, games are won or lost at the line of scrimmage. I can see Miami trading back on one of its first round picks, but it’s not going to happen with the first overall pick.

Flores proved to me last season what he can do as a head coach. He took a roster void of talent and head to head against playoff teams in the Eagles and the Patriots. I can only imagine what he’ll be able to do with a talented roster built young and for longevity.

If Grier and Flores can build this team to play hard nosed, in your face smash mouth football like the Titans this year, giving a young Tua enough weapons so it doesn’t have to be HIM as the every down playmaker, teams are going to be worried when the see the Dolphins on their schedule.

Defensively, that DL and secondary has got to be shored up. We have to be able to create turnovers and force teams into 3 and outs consistently

It's funny that you say that because I've already convinced myself that the fins end up trading up to 3 to get Tua. I think he's been their guy since the start of the year and I don't think there's going to be much that stops them getting him (Barring some massive set back with his medicals). My bigger question at this point is how much do we end up giving up in order to get to 3.

"Wilkimania wrote:

It's funny that you say that because I've already convinced myself that the fins end up trading up to 3 to get Tua. I think he's been their guy since the start of the year and I don't think there's going to be much that stops them getting him (Barring some massive set back with his medicals). My bigger question at this point is how much do we end up giving up in order to get to 3.

At least you get it.

The chatter seems to be moving on from the Lions to the Redskins lately.

And if we make a pre-draft deal, that's really the only option. No sense trading with Detroit until Washington has handed in their card. It's quite possible we just wait though, and gauge Washington's plans on draft day. If they are seriously all-in on Young and not taking offers, then move on to the Lions. If they are taking offers, see what we can come together with. The fifth spot is an ideal trade down area for them - they will get a premium talent at a position of need regardless of whom they choose between Simmons, Okudah, Jeudy or offensive line.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

And just about impossible. Most contracts have clauses against this. Brady would have to agree to it before he resigned.

Although I'd be mad, I think that I'd laugh uncontrollably for awhile thinking about all those Pats fans throwing a tantrum over Tom leaving. It would be poetic justice though- Belichek thinks, "Hey Tom, you want to cry to the owner to get my future stud QB traded? Enjoy your time in Cincinnati!"

Here's why that wouldn't happen though with or without Brady's approval. Belichek gets the #1 overall pick, Brady gets traded and then Brady promptly retires. That's exactly why nobody in their right minds would give a 1st rounder for Brady.

"KeyFin wrote:

Although I'd be mad, I think that I'd laugh uncontrollably for awhile thinking about all those Pats fans throwing a tantrum over Tom leaving. It would be poetic justice though- Belichek thinks, "Hey Tom, you want to cry to the owner to get my future stud QB traded? Enjoy your time in Cincinnati!"

Here's why that wouldn't happen though with or without Brady's approval. Belichek gets the #1 overall pick, Brady gets traded and then Brady promptly retires. That's exactly why nobody in their right minds would give a 1st rounder for Brady.

Brady is a free agent and had a provision in his last contract that he CANNOT be franchise tagged.

He is free to go to any team he can cut a deal with. Chargers? Raiders? Colts? I'd love to see him have to deal with a competitive division in the AFCWest -especially having to play the Chiefs at least twice.

A dark horse option would be to sign with the Cowboys. They let Dak walk rather than pay him $38-40 million/yr and Brady joins a decent team (on paper anyway) in a weak division.

"Deus ex dolphin wrote:

Brady is a free agent and had a provision in his last contract that he CANNOT be franchise tagged.

He is free to go to any team he can cut a deal with. Chargers? Raiders? Colts? I'd love to see him have to deal with a competitive division in the AFCWest -especially having to play the Chiefs at least twice.

A dark horse option would be to sign with the Cowboys. They let Dak walk rather than pay him $38-40 million/yr and Brady joins a decent team (on paper anyway) in a weak division.

Oh, I think Belichek would sign him to a one-year hometown discount deal and then trade him....I must have left that part out. He's an evil genius in that regard and it's something I'd completely expect since it benefits him and nobody else.

"KeyFin wrote:

Oh, I think Belichek would sign him to a one-year hometown discount deal and then trade him....I must have left that part out. He's an evil genius in that regard and it's something I'd completely expect since it benefits him and nobody else.

Belichik would do it if he could. He can't. Tom Brady isn't a rookie representing himself, he probably has the best agent in football. (I don't know **** about agents, I'm just saying he's insanely rich and experienced in the game so he likely does.) No agent for a client like Brady is going to sign any contract unless there's a clause that won't allow a trade unless he okays it.

I may be in the minority but I want the Patsies to resign him for as much $$$ as possible. Hammer the shit out of their salary cap. That will prevent them from using that money on upgrading other positional players and hopefully hurt them for years to come.