Here's what I don't understand about keeping Ireland

Uh-oh.

 

I don't believe Ireland is judged solely on his record. Really whats cost him wins to this point was the inability to replace Henne sooner. The teams record with QBs other than Henne isn't so bad.

 

Ireland was able to keep his job by convincing Ross that the sins of the past lay primarily at the feet of Parcells and Sparano.

 

can we please not start the Parcells vs Ireland discussion again? let's focus on the training camp that's about to start.

 

Are you kidding me?

Ireland got us an "elite" LB for a bargain price, he should run for Mayor.

 

Still with the Dansby thing? What alternative did Ireland have that offseason in free agency? The only guy on the list who you could even compare with Dansby was DeMeco Ryans, who was re-signed by Houston.

Free Agency: http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=LB&y=2010

It's not like the 2010 Draft Class was a big year for LBs either. Those drafted in the first 3 rounds: Sean Weatherspoon, Darryl Washington, Sean Lee, Brandon Spikes, Pat Angerer, Donald Butler, Navarro Bowman, and Rennie Curran. Of those, I don't see one that's as good as Karlos Dansby.

Yes, Jeff Ireland's made some moves that didn't pan out and he's had some bad draft picks, hell, there's only 1 guy left from the 2008 class - Jake Long, but Karlos Dansby. I just don't see how that can be considered a bad move. He's played very well for what he's been asked to do, and there wasn't a better alternative in free agency or the draft.

 

I agree with all that, but no way was I not going to take a small shot at Ireland, Dansby, supporters of....CMON MAN.

 

Can you prove how much gm'n Parcells did while his fatass was here?

We know he didn't really care about getting the job done, we know that.

By mid season we should know what we have in the talent evaluator Ireland, that way we can see how his class developed from last year, and how this years class flashes..

He better get Tannehill signed or the seat is about to get hotter with a bunch of season ticket holders.if he wants to trash their enthusiasm by saving some cash that other teams chose not to do, he may have some more planes flying over the stadium.

 

Nice how you only remember the negative sides of your theory.

 

AMEN!!!!!!!!!
Enough
Already!!!

 

I see you're new so I'm just going to warn you that you're probably going to get a little beat up for your Ireland views. He has quite a following on this board.

I'll partially agree with you. I think wiping out the entire trio might have done both the team and Ireland more service. But Ireland's supporters on this board raise a valid point that it's hard to know just what Ireland was and wasn't responsible for during his time as GM here while Parcells was also on board.

That being said, keeping Ireland may prove to be a good thing or bad thing. I think Ireland made the right decision in the draft to take Tannehill and I say that whether Tannehill works out or not. You have to make QB a priority.

BUT...if Miami struggles the next couple of years and I think we can all agree there is a pretty decent chance of that it's going to be hard to pinpoint whether or not the blame lays at Philbin's feet, Ireland's feet, neither (maybe just growing pains), etc. Maybe Philbin is a great coach but Ireland isn't giving him the right "groceries". Maybe Ireland is drafting fine but Philbin isn't a great head coach. Maybe they both stink or maybe neither.

See my point? It's going to be hard to know. Not saying that's a valid reason we should have dumped him just saying Ireland will continue to be a hot point of debate on this board if the team struggles.

 

Because the raw player input has been good, and the discrepancy between that and the win output isn't something you blame the GM for.

 

Until the draft class of 2010 retire, it's not a fair time to evaluate Irish.
/Francis


Sent from my iPhone

 

For all the people that don't know, when he types Francis, he means me. Carry on.

 

To take it a step further, you can look at a lot of his moves, and in hindsight many of them were very strong given the options. Matt Moore performed better than any of the other QBs available last off-season. You can even look at the selection of Jared Odrick, and while he may not be as good as Earl Thomas (I'm not necessarily sure) or JPP (I am sure), but he certainly was a lot better than plenty of other popular options (Brandon Graham or Dez Bryant, for example). Certainly he had two misses on QB. Chad Henne was a decent pick at the time, but they held on to him way too long. Pat White was an absolute failure.

Not to mention that Ireland has been pretty good in regards to expenditures. The "worst" contract he's given out was to an ILB that is regarded as very good by some, and elite by others. Other than that debatable player, there really isn't anyone that you can look at as an egregious waste of money. We are also a boatload under the salary cap for next year, which is important. Stephen Ross must love the way Ireland has handled giving out money to players.

But overall, I think you need to have perspective on what good GM'ing looks like. Certainly Ireland isn't Jerry Reese or Ozzie Newsome or Ted Thompson, but relatively speaking, he is miles and miles ahead of anything the Dolphins have had in recent (actually not-so-recent as well) history.

 

[video=youtube;C5P5eQiKNQs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5P5eQiKNQs[/video]

The 0:25 mark...

 

This looks to be a pretty good draft class, if its the end of 2012 the team struggled and those picks are looking like PAR for the previous 6 drafts then Ireland is a goner.

 

fwiw:

 

Here goes the Parcells/Ireland debate again...If he had full and absolute power, would he have made the same moves as he did with Parcells as his boss ?? That's the whole debate on Irish. Your statement is wrong (it's pretty fair to say he'd be gone) because of the Parcells influence... It's impossible for us fans to separate the moves and assign blame. Can't be done with the facts we have available. The only thing we have to take any comfort in is that Ross had more info as to what moves each backed and why those moves either were successful or not successful and that's why Quitcells is no longer here (other than the fact that he, once again in his career, left a job undone) and Irish is. It's just as reasonable to assume that Ireland is still here because Ross felt he was making good decisions on personnel/costs as it is to assume that he's still here because of new, inexperienced ownership didn't know any better... That's not an endorsement of Ireland on my part, just the facts as we know them.

If you are not an Irish support, you say "I think it's pretty fair to say that if Ireland had full absolute power from the time he started here, he would have been gone by now." If you are an Irish supporter, you say "Parcell's is the reason we are in the predicament we are in because all moves when thru his desk". Either side is biased and wrong because we simply don't know the absolute dividing line between Irish moves and Parcells moves for the last 4 years...

NOTE: And it's too soon to tell about his solo offseason...

 

If only he was good a GM as office politician....

 

This

 

What movie is this from?

 

Even if you give Ireland responsibility for 2008-present, you don't fire him. If you think that time period has been terrible I think you need to get realistic perspective of what NFL talent acquisition around the league looks like.

 

I agree with this paragraph except for the use of the word 'biased'. People on this board LOOOOOVE to toss that word around as if they actually have a grasp of what it means and what they're accusing people of, but 95% of the time that accusation comes flying out, it's inappropriate.

Everyone wants to be right. The easiest and cheapest way to seem right is to accuse the person who disagrees with you of having some kind of prejudice that results in irrational opinions and behavior. But the reality is there are often multiple VALID ways to see every issue, and there's plenty of room for intelligent people to disagree with one another and not be accused of irrational behavior resulting from some kind of prejudice.

If you're a dad and your son plays for the Dolphins, and you're arguing with someone about your son, you're probably biased. That is a correct, intelligent conclusion. But if you're arguing with someone about some guy neither of you knows, neither of you has any emotional attachment toward, one person thinks one way and the other person thinks the other way, that's not bias. That's an unintelligent and incorrect use of the label.

 

Stripes

 

Now youre just trolling

 

Bias is absolutely present.

First of all, you're implying person X can't be biased toward/against person Y if they don't know that person. Simply not true. Put on some muck boots and come into the PoFo for proof.

The simple fact is, we don't know what moves Ireland made and which he didn't make. We do know he didn't make all of them and he didn't have complete control while Parcells was here. Those are the only 2 real facts we have in ACCURATELY assessing his performance. Many of us who have been accused of being pro-Ireland have said nothing more, than we don't know because of the Parcells stuff if Ireland is good at his job or not. That isn't biased. Others, have taken every opportunity to blast or blow Ireland and they've done so with the same amount of info...which is not a lot. That is bias...or stupidity.

 

I'm saying the term "bias" implies some prejudicial belief which has created an irrational way of thinking about a topic. And no, I did not claim that you have to know someone to be biased about them. But that absolutely is one way to end up biased about a topic. Another way to end up biased is the simple fact that we're all fans of the Miami Dolphins and WANT them to succeed, and that desire can often cause us to see things more positively than they are.

However, the definition of bias is to hold a prejudice in favor or against something usually in a way considered to be unfair. A prejudice is a preconceived opinion NOT based on reason or experience. If someone has, over the years, viewed the various maneuvers Jeff Ireland has made and come to the conclusion that he is a really good General Manager, that is a judicial opinion, not a prejudicial one. Reason and experienced have led that person to form an opinion. Yes, they are likely to see future events within the context of that judicial opinion, but nonetheless, it is NOT bias.

Now, someone could come along and accuse that person of bias on the basis of their supposedly judicial opinion being based on fandom and optimism rather than reason and experience. That could be the case. In some cases it may necessitate the person to explain a reasonable and plausible rationale for thier opinion.

But let's say the opposite is the case and the person has, over a period of time, come to the conclusion that Jeff Ireland is a bad General Manager and they see new events within the context of that judicial opinion. On what basis is there a bias? Fandom and emotional attachment to the team would seem to pull that person's opinions in the opposite direction.

I don't think you have a grasp on what the word 'biased' really means.

 

If you guys want to discuss the true meaning of "bias", please feel free to create a thread in the Etymology/Semantics Forum.

This thread is devoted to bashing/stroking Jeff Ireland.

 

I know what bias means. I know if someone doesn't have the facts and staunchly adheres to an opinion regardless, that is bias. And yes you did imply (which I said the first time) that someone needs to know someone for there to be bias and you're still kind of doing it. Since no one can possibly know what moves Ireland made or didn't make, (based on the Parcells variable) to call him a bad GM is by definition, bias.

 

This is an incorrect way of viewing the issue. People form judgments based on a preponderance of evidence. The evidence may or may not be conclusive based on whatever standard you use to consider conclusive. After all, you may not consider it a fact that the sun is hot because you've never been close enough to touch the sun and verify it. However, using evidence, experience and reason to come up with an opinion defies the definition of 'bias'. The accusation of bias is therefore just an unintelligent and cheap method of trying to claim you're right and they're wrong.

Incorrect.

Incorrect.

 

Jeff Ireland is just always going to be a muddy issue. First it was the existence of Bill Parcells in the FO that made it tough to evaluate his job as a GM. Now having an entirely new coaching staff is going to make it difficult to evaluate the man as a GM. Add to that the fact that the position of GM is hard to qualify beyond just idiotic draft picks (see: Matt Millen) and Ireland is always going to be hotly debated on this board so long as he's a Miami Dolphin.

I just hope Tannehill turns out to be the real deal and we can move on to something else to fiercely debate on this board. Because there will always be something or it wouldn't be fun.

 

This x100.

I personally like the roster we have. We're a young team with a lot to look forward to. Things could be a lot worse....

 

My honest opinion of Jeff Ireland is that at times he seems to be lost, but from being the GM in 2008 to now he has learned a lot. He was guided in the wrong direction by Parcells but all the hate by the fans is actually helping him go in the right course. While some draft picks from previous yeaars won't do as well in a WCO many will also get better in it. Clay caught some good passes last year as a FB, but now he is going to platy TE and IMO he is better as a TE and a steal in the draft. With our Nickel and Dime packages Jimmy Wilson will find more gametime and will succeed and be another steal. Our O-line is almost set and there is no controversy on it. Whoever wins the right side will win because of skill and the entire o-line will be elite, giving time to the rookie qb. I liked his use of the draft picks this year. WHile I didnt want to get Tannenhill, Ireland used the other rounds better. He traded later into the 3rd round, still got the guy he wanted and got extra late picks to possibly find a steal at wr. He got the rookie qb, then a good T in Martin to solidify our O-line. Got Olivier Vernon, Egnew, and Miller all of whcih I feel will excel. He is learning and little by little he will be loved by his fans (that sounds crazy I know), but I feel this year will make fans enjoy what Ireland does in decision making much more.