Oh he of blind faith in BP. Do you really feel like Cam knows nothing of QBs? He may not have connected as a head coach, but I guarentee as a talent evaluator and offensive mind, he is smarter than your or I. Biases are a funny thing, they work for everyone. You like Henne and have faith he is the answer good, go for it. But dont tell me that I cant or shouldnt believe Beck should have a shot. If you think those 4 games were sufficient to judge Beck on well then frankly you give the impression that you didnt like the Beck pick, wanted Quinn and now will be happy to say see I was right, look how smart. Sorry but this posts smacks of anti-Beck. Henne will be given his shot, that is a given, but so will Beck IMO. If no faith in Beck, you dont risk Henne falling to 57. You just dont. Henne wouldnt have been a reach at 32. Some say had Merling not been there, he was gonna be the pick. I still say tho that the fact they felt they could take Merling and bypassing Henne at 32 says they are totalling uncomfortable with Beck. But is all opinion and conjecture. Noone knows. As far as Henne competing with Beck, it definitely is a good thing all things being equal. They can push each other, help each other and the best man wins teh job having earned it.
I think you meant to say "they are not totally uncomfortable" or "they are totally comfortable". I agree. Henne's value at 57 was to good to pass up (again), but by passing on him at 32 said "we know there is a real good chance he wont be there with our next pick, and we're ok with that".
You are incorrect regarding my personal bias...I do not have one...I stated VERY VERY Clearly that I could care less who is the QB of this team for the future as long as they produce. I do not have any bias. Do I think one has a different and better set of tools...YES. But that is based on what I personally see as valuable skills in a QB. Others see the more intangible and accuracy skills more valuable, so be it. I acknowledged that others value different skills in a QB. A perfect example is in this thread one person states Becks studying in the grocery store creeps him out and indicates he is high strung (I tend to agree) while another say it shows his dedication...both points are valid and possible. As for Cam I think he is pretty good at taking what is given him in a micro setting and getting value out of it, but is not a talent evaluator or macro management type of guy. He is a mid level manager or position coach that tops out ot OC.....end of story in my book if you think he is more....great.....if you want to compare a 1-15 HC that was a terrible failure at Indiana also to a SB coach and guy that built or rebuilt 4 franchises....great, good luck convincing serious football fans of that....best of luck to ya..... You are also wrong in that initially I liked the Ginn/Beck route better than stretching to pick Quinn...I have never thought Quinn was a top 10 player in that draft...IMHO. I think that Ginn will be e special player. I was a fan of Patrick Willis there for the record. My personal opinion is that the Henne at 57 has to do much more with Merling being available at 32...no one expected that. But you are right no one knows. I hope Beck or Henne or McCown is the guy. From my own observations and what I personally see as attribute in a "special" QB....I still think that Henne or McCown have a better shot than Beck. We need to sit and watch and see......and not get too excited or depressed with each step forward or back tht these guys take in their development....we will see over time...Beck is first on the pecking list he should show significant improvment over last years disaster...we will see...
I for one am not telling anyone who they should or should not have faith in or be a fan of....and again I have no bias. Like who you want don't like who you want...but please be consistent if you are a fan of the TEAM...to hold Henne to a different set of values than Beck is not being a fan of the TEAM. The subliminal and not so subliminal semantics of post titles and post innuendo's put forth a proposition that you should not have faith in Henne....yet faith in Beck is OK.....my point is...neither have done Jack Squat in the NFL and if we are trusting EITHER to be the QB of the future then we are propogating FAITH...and BOTH OR NEITHER ARE DESERVING...I do not care which way anyone goes...I am just encouraging us all to be consistent in our treatment and faith. I do not believe you can judge the results of the 4 games John Beck played in as whether he will or will not be a successful QB any more than you can judge Henne's first 4 games.....or McCowns...I do however think you can look at the skills he exihibted in those 4 games...and I have reviewed them...there is not much to be excited about from a skills standpoint as I personally see it...jaundiced eyes I am sure will see much more positive than my who cares what #9's name is eyes.....what positives did you see, his decption as established by a wobbly TD pass that looked more like it came off a foot than a hand in garbage time, or his uncanny ability to recover after falling down as he demonstrated so many times for us, or his athletic ability as demonstrated by dribbling a football....those would be positive slants....Sorry just did not see it......from a skills standpoint...great guy and hope like heck he makes it...but with no bias...did not see it.....read about "it" a lot.....
The labels of "QB guru" and "Great offensive coach" weren't given to Cam by us, they were given to him by his peers....the guys who work in the NFL, who know what it takes to be "special" at what you do and work 24/7 finding, evaluating and coaching talent. Well again, it goes back to what the FO feels is the most important need. Parcells, Ireland and Sparano have all talked about how important the QB position is, if they didn't feel confident in Beck and felt that Henne was their guy, they would have chosen him at #32 because there is no guarantee that he would have been there at #33....let alone #57. Most people thought that he would have been a 1st round pick, noone could have seen him falling that far before the draft and noone entrusted with the responsibility of building an NFL franchise would have counted on him still being available at #57 if he was their guy.
LTG....thats my point...he is QB coach..maybe even guru as some suggest. I think he also showed he was an offensive coach with substance some may call it great...probably pretty accurate....but he is a LOUSY manager of people, f men, and of the whole of a FOOTBALL TEAM...or at least he has not given any indications in his opportunities that would indicate he is anything special at that...so IMHO he is a QB coach ..."guru"...and an OC....'great offensive coach'....he may know very well what you need to put into your game to be "special" but he has not shown to be INDEPENDENTLY a solid finder or evaluator of talent...but he is pretty darn good at taking what you give him and making something of it from a positional standpoint...QB....
I've come to agree with this. Originally, I thought Henne signaled a clear need pick, but after thinking about it, I see no way the FO could have expected Henne to still be available at #57. The Bears picked at #44, and despite what they did, everyone thought they were in the market for a QB. Not to mention all the opportunities for teams to trade up into the range from 32 - 57. In fact, after Flacco went #18 to Baltimore, if the Fins had been REALLY concerned, they probably trade #32 up into the 1st and grab Henne. So, I've concluded that the FO really had Henne as the clear BPA when #57 came around, apart from need. Not that I think the FO believes Beck/McCown are a cinch to be enough at QB, but they were ok with going with them if it had come to that. If Henne had been gone, I think they would have taken a developmental guy at some point. We'll never know for sure. Hopefully, one of the three is a good starting QB.
You can also throw in Gil Brandt's comment that Parcells was disappointed when a rb they wanted was taken a couple of spots before their pick. That only happened once in the draft (the Smith slot we traded out of probably knowing who Detroit would pick so that wouldn't have been our target) with Ray Rice two spots before the Henne pick. That seems to make it less likely that Henne was seen as a need pick. I know some people here don't see Beck's skills but there have been too many reports from people like Ron Wolf and Gil Brandt about what Parcells thinks for me to believe that BP, Ireland and Sparano share that opinion. I thought Beck's superlative skills were pretty obvious in the Buc's and Raven's pre-season games and in the Cincy regular season game and I think that's what the Dolphin brain thrust saw as well.
Being the eternal optimist, I'm hoping Beck plays lights out for 2 years, turning into a pro Bowl QB, then maybe he goes down for a couple games with a minor injury and Henne comes in, plays lights out. Ultimately we end up with one of them being 1st round trade bait. That would be my scenario, I don't believe in karma, but if I did, that would be my karma scenario for all the 2nd & 5th round picks we paid for QB's who no longer play here.
