Henne hype machine in high gear

Oh yeah. I saw this coming the second we drafted a 1st day QB. There was much ado about Henne coming on board, and he was even being appointed the savior of the Dolphins long prior to the point where we actually drafted him. Meh, all empty talk for now.

this is so because no one cares about Lionel Dotson. Gotta write something

Beck was drafted higher than Henne was - I don't understand why he is suddenly the savior?

I hope one of the two pans out - and as long as we get a solid QB out of this I am happy - but I think Henne has a lot more holes in his game than Beck. Maybe I am jaded from previous regimes but I hope Beck doesn't get passed over for the simple fact he isn't built like the stereotypical QB.

It was inevitable, the fans and media are too impatient and too quick to find a new media darling when they don't see instant results.

"like2god wrote:

It was inevitable, the fans and media are too impatient and too quick to find a new media darling when they don't see instant results.

It's a good thing we have a competent FO and coaching staff who won't care what the media or fans think.

"PhiNomina wrote:

Beck was drafted higher than Henne was - I don't understand why he is suddenly the savior?

I hope one of the two pans out - and as long as we get a solid QB out of this I am happy - but I think Henne has a lot more holes in his game than Beck. Maybe I am jaded from previous regimes but I hope Beck doesn't get passed over for the simple fact he isn't built like the stereotypical QB.

I think it has to do with the "Big Name" School Henne comes from and about the stereo typical QB, Beck is the same height as Henne and only 10 pounds lighter.

"PhiNomina wrote:

Beck was drafted higher than Henne was - I don't understand why he is suddenly the savior?

I hope one of the two pans out - and as long as we get a solid QB out of this I am happy - but I think Henne has a lot more holes in his game than Beck. Maybe I am jaded from previous regimes but I hope Beck doesn't get passed over for the simple fact he isn't built like the stereotypical QB.

Draft position really doesn't mean much in this case, we could have drafted Beck in the 1st round last year and Henne still would get this type of hype. Again, fickle fans and even more fickle media.

I hope we currently have our franchise QB on the roster, but I also hope that Beck gets a fair chance to show what he is capable of. The last FO brought in their own guys and gave in to pressure, I hope the new regime is smarter than that.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

It's a good thing we have a competent FO and coaching staff who won't care what the media or fans think.

If I was inclined to go to the other place, I would pull the same exact quotes from a year ago.

I hope this FO does have a backbone and mind of its own. Only time will tell if they mean what they say. So far, the "no thugs, hoodlums, problem children" quote has taken a backseat while Ricky, Crowder, Roth, Starks, etc are all on the team.

"PhiNomina wrote:

Beck was drafted higher than Henne was - I don't understand why he is suddenly the savior?

I hope one of the two pans out - and as long as we get a solid QB out of this I am happy - but I think Henne has a lot more holes in his game than Beck. Maybe I am jaded from previous regimes but I hope Beck doesn't get passed over for the simple fact he isn't built like the stereotypical QB.

all Dolphin's fans hope one of them pans out, but that's not the point.

i have no problem with the new regime taking another QB because, simply put, John Beck is already staring down the age of 30.

and Henne may well have more holes in his game, as you have stated, but at 22, he has several more years in which to work those out and learn from NFL QB coaches.

if Beck doesn't get things done (and do it in the next two seasons, realistically speaking) then it is time to move on, and be sure the next (younger) guy is ready.

"like2god wrote:

If I was inclined to go to the other place, I would pull the same exact quotes from a year ago.

I hope this FO does have a backbone and mind of its own. Only time will tell if they mean what they say. So far, the "no thugs, hoodlums, problem children" quote has taken a backseat while Ricky, Crowder, Roth, Starks, etc are all on the team.

Starks? when did he get in trouble?

"charlestonphan wrote:

all Dolphin's fans hope one of them pans out, but that's not the point.

i have no problem with the new regime taking another QB because, simply put, John Beck is already staring down the age of 30.

and Henne may well have more holes in his game, as you have stated, but at 22, he has several more years in which to work those out and learn from NFL QB coaches.

if Beck doesn't get things done (and do it in the next two seasons, realistically speaking) then it is time to move on, and be sure the next (younger) guy is ready.

I definitely agree with the Henne pick - it was great value and filled a need on this team. My point is just that I hope he isn't HANDED the job if he doesn't earn it. I don't think it is far-fetched to think that the FO will be inclined to go with "their guy" and not give Beck a fair shot.

Your concerns about his age are valid and I have been a huge Henne fan while he was at Michigan (nothing is more fun than wearing a "Yeah but does your offense have a Henne?" shirt in front of Ohio State fans) but I am not sold on him having more potential than Beck. QB is a position that can still be productive over the age over 35 - so I am not nearly as concerned about the age difference as some.

Either way I hope to get some consistent QB for the first time in the last decade. We are going to be run first but with Ricky being unreliable and Ronnie coming off an injury (again) we are going to rely on the QB more than we'd like.

"like2god wrote:

It was inevitable, the fans and media are too impatient and too quick to find a new media darling when they don't see instant results.

We are all big time Fin fans...but take a step back and look at this from a 40,000 foot perspective.....do you think with as many holes as this team has that if the new regime thought John Beck was the answer they would have selected a round 2 QB this year? I am not anti Beck but I see posts that are either negative or thinly disguised subliminal negative posts about "annointing" Chad Henne savior.

So understanding this, we as fans have no write to have hope for Henne and are supposed to feel as if a super Bowl winning coach and renowned talent evaluator are wrong about a QB that we saw stumble all over the field and generally look totally over matched last year in addition to being what many feel over drafted. And we should also take the word of a 1-15 regime over the SB coach's obvious feelings and evaluations (given his actions of taking a QB @#2)? does not seem real bright to me but that may just be me....

Look I have no problems with Beck or Henne but someone tell me what we have seen on the field other than a couple worthless drives have we seen on the field that should give us anything more than faith that Beck is the future?

Henne may not be the future either...maybe it is McCown...heck maybe it is someone not even here right now....but at some point we have to look at what we have seen on the field instead of what a 1-15 regime and the media that they run is telling us. The reason we have hope in Henne and it comes off as being Anti Beck is because Henne has not stumbled around looking like a boob in an NFL stadium....yet...maybe he will maybe not.

Myquestion is why should we not have faith in Henne but yet have faith in Beck...after all faith is defined as belief without evidence....I think we have some NFL evidence with Beck...so enough with the faith...........IMHO only :)

"my 2 cents wrote:

We are all big time Fin fans...but take a step back and look at this from a 40,000 foot perspective.....do you think with as many holes as this team has that if the new regime thought John Beck was the answer they would have selected a round 2 QB this year? I am not anti Beck but I see posts that are either negative or thinly disguised subliminal negative posts about "annointing" Chad Henne savior.

So understanding this, we as fans have no write to have hope for Henne and are supposed to feel as if a super Bowl winning coach and renowned talent evaluator are wrong about a QB that we saw stumble all over the field and generally look totally over matched last year in addition to being what many feel over drafted. And we should also take the word of a 1-15 regime over the SB coach's obvious feelings and evaluations (given his actions of taking a QB @#2)? does not seem real bright to me but that may just be me....

Look I have no problems with Beck or Henne but someone tell me what we have seen on the field other than a couple worthless drives have we seen on the field that should give us anything more than faith that Beck is the future?

Henne may not be the future either...maybe it is McCown...heck maybe it is someone not even here right now....but at some point we have to look at what we have seen on the field instead of what a 1-15 regime and the media that they run is telling us. The reason we have hope in Henne and it comes off as being Anti Beck is because Henne has not stumbled around looking like a boob in an NFL stadium....yet...maybe he will maybe not.

Myquestion is why should we not have faith in Henne but yet have faith in Beck...after all faith is defined as belief without evidence....I think we have some NFL evidence with Beck...so enough with the faith...........IMHO only :)

So according to your argument we SHOULD annoint Henne the savior? I realize Beck didn't look great in his first four career starts in the NFL on a team that hadn't won a single game and was on their 4th string running back, but I am saying I think he deserves more of an opportunity to prove himself than what he was given last year.

Do I think I am smarter than Bill Parcells? Hell no. But I think it is naive to think that because of those few games Beck has no future in the NFL. Should we only give Henne four starts before we right him off as well?

I don't think anyone has expressed not wanting Henne to work out - more just support for seeing what we have in Beck before writing him off. I've watched most of Henne's games and think he could end up being a very solid pro - but I'm not ready to write off any other chances in favor of him.

Has there been a comparison of Beck and Henne's draft grades from our guru's? I am sure this has come up and would find it interesting to see how they measure up against each other.

With a little luck we will be in the same boat as Cleveland this past year - one emerging star on the field and another waiting in the wings.

My point of the post was I want the best player on the field. I don't care who starts. May the best player win, fine with me. That being said I think if they knew Beck was not the answer they would have drafted Henne earlier. I think they are not sold on beck so they covered their bases and took Henne were the did. I think the competetion will be fair. THe best guy will start. Parcells isn't so stupid as to start Henne or Mcnown over beck if they don't earn it. Besides I think Beck and Henne can be good at the NFL level if they have the proper development.

"Rocky Raccoon wrote:

Starks? when did he get in trouble?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=2548091

"my 2 cents wrote:

We are all big time Fin fans...but take a step back and look at this from a 40,000 foot perspective.....do you think with as many holes as this team has that if the new regime thought John Beck was the answer they would have selected a round 2 QB this year? I am not anti Beck but I see posts that are either negative or thinly disguised subliminal negative posts about "annointing" Chad Henne savior.

Yup, even though I disliked the pick I know that Henne was great value at that spot and the FO said as much. I question whether BPA was a wise decision at that point considering that we didn't address WR, CB or S.

After watching the last FO toss Culpepper to the side, hand pick Green, toss Lemon to the side and go against their original plan of keeping Beck on the bench to learn for a year because they felt the pressure from the fans and media, forgive me for being a wee bit skepticle. :wink2:

So understanding this, we as fans have no write to have hope for Henne and are supposed to feel as if a super Bowl winning coach and renowned talent evaluator are wrong about a QB that we saw stumble all over the field and generally look totally over matched last year in addition to being what many feel over drafted. And we should also take the word of a 1-15 regime over the SB coach's obvious feelings and evaluations (given his actions of taking a QB @#2)? does not seem real bright to me but that may just be me....

First of all, Cam and Randy aren't the only ones who feel that Beck has what it takes to make it in the NFL. Their opinion is shared by guys like Martz, Jaws, Wolf, Young, Shea and even Ireland himself. That is a pretty good group of talent evaluators and some of them are known as QB gurus.

Second, the original plan was to have Beck learn from the bench for a year like Rivers did in SD. The guy wasn't prepared by the coaching staff to be game ready, his surrounding cast was horrible and the offensive playcalling was bland and didn't take advantage of Beck's arm or Ginn's speed. Beck said himself that he received more instruction in two months with the new regime than he did all of last year, that says alot.

How was he supposed to look out there?

Look I have no problems with Beck or Henne but someone tell me what we have seen on the field other than a couple worthless drives have we seen on the field that should give us anything more than faith that Beck is the future?

Take a look at his college films, you'll see the accuracy, quick release, even quicker decisions, arm strength, ability to make NFL passes, ability to win big game and come up big when needed, etc. Those qualities don't just disappear once a guy is drafted. I would like to see what he can do with a better surrounding cast, he didn't have Ronnie last year to take pressure off of him, he didn't have WR's who could catch a ball or stay motivated enough to run their routes, he didn't have the same Miami Dolphins OL that started the season......again, how was he supposed to play under those circumstances?

The same questions that people have about Beck are the very same question that we now have with Henne and we would have had with Quinn.

Henne may not be the future either...maybe it is McCown...heck maybe it is someone not even here right now....but at some point we have to look at what we have seen on the field instead of what a 1-15 regime and the media that they run is telling us. The reason we have hope in Henne and it comes off as being Anti Beck is because Henne has not stumbled around looking like a boob in an NFL stadium....yet...maybe he will maybe not.

We went 1-15 for a reason, Beck only played in a couple of games. Trent Green couldn't get us a win when he was healthy for 2 seconds. Cleo Lemon has been in the league longer than Beck and has been in Cam's offense for a few years and he didn't look much better than the rookie did......and those guys were given practice time with the 1st team and were prepped to be starters.

My question is why should we not have faith in Henne but yet have faith in Beck...after all faith is defined as belief without evidence....I think we have some NFL evidence with Beck...so enough with the faith...........IMHO only :)

If you really believe that what we saw last year is enough to make an educated decision on Beck, then I totally disagree with you for the reasons stated above.

Why should we have faith in one and not the other?

Never said that.

I didn't want to draft a QB in the first place because we still have no idea what Beck has to offer, if he fails then we have McCown as a safety net and we can resume our search next offseason. This team has wasted more draft picks on the Qb position than should be legally allowed (Culpepper, Green, Feeley, Lemon, etc). When do we stop throwing draft picks at the problem every year and start developing our players? QB's take time to develop, very rarely do they walk in and put up Peyton Manning type numbers.

Until we are patient with our young players, we will always find ourselves waiting for the next Marino to come along and impress us from day 1.

I also hope they both play very well and give Sparano and Parcells a hell of a time deciding because of their great play. Willl that happen probably not one guy or the other will probably play better than the other. Having a couple of good qb is not a horrible thing.
If one goes down nice to have a great backup waiting. Remember last year with lemon.
If anything that tells us all about the need to have a few great qb's on your roster.

"emocomputerjock wrote:

Oh yeah. I saw this coming the second we drafted a 1st day QB. There was much ado about Henne coming on board, and he was even being appointed the savior of the Dolphins long prior to the point where we actually drafted him. Meh, all empty talk for now.

I don't think anyone's anointed him a savior. He'll come in and compete for a spot like everyone else. Everything I've read on here has been pretty grounded and realistic.:confused1:

He's got the physical ability, tons of experience at a big time school, but a lot to work on to be starter in this league.

Don't confuse support for your new players for blind homerism.

First, I have no idea who's going to win the starting job this year. Hopefully, the best man wins.

That said, I wonder what would have happened to Bob Griese in today's microwave NFL. (Produce instant results or you're gone.) Rookie season QB rating - 61.6, threw 18 INTs on a Miami team that was certainly no worse than the Fins were last season. I could see the message boards now...:yes:

"Trackstar wrote:

I don't think anyone's anointed him a savior. He'll come in and compete for a spot like everyone else. Everything I've read on here has been pretty grounded and realistic.:confused1:

He's got the physical ability, tons of experience at a big time school, but a lot to work on to be starter in this league.

Don't confuse support for your new players for blind homerism.

I think the media has been worse than the message boards - but look at the front page; there are 3-4 Henne threads near the top right now.

I don't see that many stories on Merling or Langford or any of the other picks.

I think a lot of it has to do with the Dolphins having the worst record in the league last year and the press is still looking for stories from the Dolphins.
I definitely don't think Henne is a savior by any means but we did need a third QB and Henne is a decent prospect.
I don't know how true it is but Gil Brandt said on Sirius radio that the best QB prospects are QBs who play four years at their respective colleges.
I hope all three of the QBs, McCown, Beck and Henne play well and Miami is faced with a rare problem of having three good QBs and find it hard to decide who the starter is.

"like2god wrote:

Until we are patient with our young players, we will always find ourselves waiting for the next Marino to come along and impress us from day 1.

I agree with you...my point is that IMHO there is nothing wrong with a belief/faith that Henne is the guy....a thread that is titled "Henne hype machine in full gear" and numerous other posts belittle the substance that he may bring to the table. As for Beck I hope is a top flight NFL QB, he had a lousy supporting cast, and was in over his head....I agree with all of that. I also did not see anything that indicated he had the tools to become elite....that's OK.

Truth be told Beck is more 'my type guy'....seems more humble than Henne, nicer guy and generally more well rounded from afar...but I just do not see tools that translate to star status. i do not have any personal bias against any of them...do I think IMO that some have better or different tools than the others ...yes.....but I would love to wrong about Beck, and I would love for Henne to be a star...gives us more options....

It is funny the same people that want to talk about Becks historical college record as an indicator of success instead of tools are the same posters that do not want his historical record in the NFL because somehow that history does not count...only the history when it supports a position. The people that want to talk about Henne's tools do not like to talk about the positive things said about Becks tools.

I would prefer we have as much faith in Henne and McCown as we do faith that all of John Becks problems were caused by situations or his supporting cast...anything but John Beck,,,, and let the best guy play.

The post/stories/etc are negativly slanted and the sematics are such as to be indicative that we should not believe or have faith that Henne can be a great QB, yet we should ignore what we all saw last year and believe all of the Beck "hype" because he a) had poor supporting cast, b) was mismanaged, c)was adjusting d) was young and inexperienced. For years...heck forever we have accpted excuse after excuse after excuse for poor performance. Becks performance was not a rookie making mistakes and encouraging. it was embarrassing and IMHO should not have encouraged anyones faith.

In anticipation of the Beck families response with statistics....take out the two TD drives in garbage time and see what the QB rating was........not that it matters.....

Soorrrrry, just real tired of losing and being told not to believe their is hope.........

"Onehondo wrote:

I think a lot of it has to do with the Dolphins having the worst record in the league last year and the press is still looking for stories from the Dolphins.
I definitely don't think Henne is a savior by any means but we did need a third QB and Henne is a decent prospect.
I don't know how true it is but Gil Brandt said on Sirius radio that the best QB prospects are QBs who play four years at their respective colleges.
I hope all three of the QBs, McCown, Beck and Henne play well and Miami is faced with a rare problem of having three good QBs and find it hard to decide who the starter is.

There was no better evaluator of QB talent than Bill Walsh...and Walsh ALWAYS said that around game 30 the lightbulb goes on if...IF a QB is going to get it...Josh McCown has 31 career starts I believe, the whole Beck/Henne debate may be a moot point. Let us not discount Mr. McCown too quickly, he also has some pretty good tools to work with and has had what 119 O.C.'s...would not surprise me to see him keep both guys on the bench for a good long time....

"PhiNomina wrote:

Beck was drafted higher than Henne was - I don't understand why he is suddenly the savior?

Might be because when Beck made a mistake they turned out to be BIG. That Bills turnover is remembered because its shown on alot of highlight reels.

"like2god wrote:

Why should we have faith in one and not the other?

My point exactly ...thanks....

they both (all three) deserve our faith IF we are to reason away Becks performance (the reason for which are legit) as not having anything to do with John Beck and everything to do with supporting cast and youth and all those other reasons that have nothing to do with the fact he was horrible.