Heath Evans thinks EVERY one of our draft picks will fail! What!?!

I think it's 13th highest paid Inside Linebacker, not middle.

 

Another thing to consider with the 'monopoly money" comment is that we actually saved money by taking Ellerbee and Wheeler and jettisoning Dansby & Burnett.

 

CK the problem i see here is that you're getting too caught up in thinking that the main problem is people disagreeing with what he said, and blasting him for it. I think you are taking it like this because you share some of Heath's views.

However, you need to realize that the problem is not as singular as that.

Firstly, this is NOT the first time Heath Evans has come out this strongly negative at the Dolphins. Nor is this occasion the most negative of them, this was mild comparatively to other occasions.

Secondly, it is not as much that we disagree with what he is saying, even though most of us, i daresay even including you, disagree with some aspect or other about what he said. At the end of the day, neither he nor us ultimately have the right here. The players performance will determine who's right or wrong in the end.
The main problem stems not from what he said, but the manner in which he said it, the tone in which he said it, and his bizarre explanations and incongruencies of his arguments.

 

Hey I started the '13th highest paid ILB' quote and can't seem to find anything to back that up. Apologize if that was way off - going off memory is probably not a good idea for me.

 

Does it refer to wallace being not wanted by his former team or not that great of player...yes or no?

WTF are you talking about?

I said:

A good corner counters the threat a good WR brings. This is no different. Not sure why you want to reinterpret what I said so you'd have an argument, but its becoming fairly common with you.

 

And this doesn't make you look immature?

You constantly interpret everyone's argument as basically because they are homers. You're doing EXACTLY what you're accusing other people of doing with Evans. They think his opinions are biased and you think all opposing opinions are biased.

 

No, we didn't save money. The salaries are roughly equal. Ireland manipulated the cap by designating Dansby and Burnett as post-June 1 cuts, meaning we gain cap space after June 1 because that's when those transactions process through the books.

Said cap space will be rolled over to the 2014 year where it will be allocated to pay for the second year spikes in many of the contracts Ireland handed out this year.

 

Are we paying the Ellerbee & Wheeler the same amount of money as we were paying Dansby & Burnett...yes or no question?

 

Its not really a cut and dry question. Ellerbee and Wheeler and cheaper on a per-year basis, but there is more financial commitment.

 

Even considering the second year spikes, the cap situation for next season is still very good. This isn't a situation where they will be pressed up against the cap.

 

I believe Karlos Dansby had about $6 million coming to him this year and $8 million next year. He's replaced by a guy who is making $7 million a year. To me that's a salary swap. It's not saving any money in the long run. It's paying the same thing for a younger (but less proven) player. I believe the remaining contract obligations for Kevin Burnett also match up with Wheeler's average contract value in the same manner.

 

Its a very cut and dry question. We are paying less per year for those two then we were for the last two. We are saving money.

The length of the contract is meaningless in this discussion because we all know restructuring & trades happen all the time.

 

In terms of what the Dolphins owed Kevin Burnett and Karlos Dansby on the remainder of their contracts should they play through them, the average salaries for Wheeler and Ellerbe are essentially a swap. Younger, less proven, not cheaper.

 

Which is good because they'll have a good number of guys to make decisions on. Dustin Keller, Tyson Clabo, Lance Louis, and Brent Grimes are all 1 year deals. Richie Incognito, Paul Soliai, Randy, Starks, and Reshad Jones will all be free agents.

 

You beat me to it.

Ireland basically swapped two players for two new players while roughly maintaining the same amount of money invested into those positions.

 

Back to the original point, this is hardly 'Monopoly money.'

Now, Hartline and Wallace...

 

Your becoming predictable in this discussion..I'm not saying your good until you disagree with me, I am saying that you have tremendous respect on this board deservedly so, however, your revealing a bias against Jeff Ireland that's just as evident as your boy, jmo.

Calling someone intelligent or well researched because they claim the #3 pick was a reach because he weighs 242, 243 lbs without any elaboration as it relates to his skillset is not well researched.

Saying "potential will get you fired"??? Boy that's original and in depth.

Saying that Mike Wallace is basically trash because the steelers let him walk is indicting, especially when the same organization offered him the largest contract in their history for anyone not named Ben just last year...two million less than what we offered.

Can you explain the angle he had when he said were in trouble in Cleveland because of mr Horton, cause he didnt elaborate such a well researched point?, lot of new systems going on over there, if they allow Jason Campbell to start they won't win a game until Weeden gets back in there.

I truly believe you could build a football team, so would you build that team to compete against a 36 year old Qb?, cause if your trying to beat the patriots you don't take Dion Jordan, because that doesn't apply inside pressure according to Evans...

Lol, I'm sorry gotta laugh at that one.

If someone else wants to continue my point I'm sure we could go on and on.

He may be a smart guy, but when you have a strong bias fueling your anger, you can say some stupid sh&$ and not think clearly in the moment, and he sure as hell did, and everyone can see it but you and a few others.

 

Thoughtful..well researched, intelligent"..I believe I've said my peace..don't want to go any farther, have to much respect for the other part of your brain.

 

you sure are doing a lot of speculating as to what you think he might of meant, especially someone who you think was well researched going in.

 

We have two probowl D tackles, I wonder who he wanted us to draft to shore up that position, you know, to provide that critical inside pressure.

 

Yes. They're younger (good), but less proven (bad). They're not cheaper.

 

While I think MrClean has a point with Wallace that the Vikings may have actually offered the same or more money, I think a lot of GMs around the league would be averse to that move and I wouldn't be surprised if the term "monopoly money" were to be used by those guys when talking to Heath Evans. I still maintain that I've not heard of anyone coming close to our offer to Ellerbe, least of all the Ravens themselves, and so I imagine that yes $7 million a year for a guy with 14 total career starts could be cited by those same guys are another instance of Miami playing around with "monopoly money". Whether that's fair or not. Evans cited Hartline. I don't agree with him on that. I think Hartline might've gotten pretty close to what he got from Miami on the market.

 

I know you weren't trying to be fair or logical but for those of us who are, it's also worth noting that it makes perfect sense to have a lower base salary in year 1 of a contract if there's a signing bonus involved, and that there will be close to 13 million in cap space available at the start of the season which can be rolled over into the 2014 cap so the idea that Ireland is burning cash b/c he's in a contract year is laughable.

 

It's not speculation. It's literally what he said. He said Tom Brady is not as bothered by edge pressure, that it's middle pressure he hates. He did not state that Miami is particularly lacking in middle pressure. Not that I recall, anyway. He stated that edge pressure isn't what bothers Brady.

He was also specifically asked if he didn't like Dion Jordan because Dion Jordan isn't right for Miami, or if he didn't like Dion Jordan because Dion Jordan is Dion Jordan. His answer was "BOTH".

So yeah, he said all this. You just refuse to hear it.

 

Because I'm basing his evaluation under the premise that he was not the man when Parcells was here, something that you have defended..so what we have is an analyst doing exactly that, without understanding the dynamics of a new coaching staff and the job of building the team according to that vision..He got rid of some players that needed to go that we're aquired when he wasn't the man, and rebuilt the roster with his and the new coaches vision with good talented replacements.

 

There's no shortage of forum members dedicated to bashing Irish/ the Dolphins and heaping praise on the rest of the league's teams so it's no surprise when they come out in support of a guy like Heath who's being critical. It is what it is.

 

So after finally listening to the interview, you think this response was mature?

 

Do teams with edge rushing specialists bench them when playing Brady?

 

Actually, this is the first offseason where I'm 95% happy with what he's done.

Added:

-Te who can make plays
-Wr who can make plays
-Cb who can make plays
-Shuffled Dansby on down the road, he didn't make plays
-Shuffled Burnett on down the road, he didn't make plays
-Added a quality RT
-Added a quality RG
-Added a once a decade type talent via trading up, who rushes the passer and covers.

To me, Ireland accomplished when heck of a lot this offseason, he was aggressive, but intelligently aggressive, unlike Daniel Snyder or Tannenbaum or Davis

We have cap space in 2014, and all of our draft choices, no complaints at all from me. I thought he could have done this all along tbh, not all of the FAs but being more aggressive and taking more risks on playmakers instead of blue collar types.

 

What does this have to do with Evans? Did he even say anything about whats happened int he past?

 

I'd like to see that debate in a vacume amongst non dolphin fans and football people..landslide if you take into account everything, athleticism, youth, championship exp, money..Evans not even touching on the variables, just simply saying You don't get rid of a playmaker like that is all that needs to be said, does he realize that Dansby was not playing up to his contract number, and what that number actually was, and that he dangled on the market for two months, and that just last year was the first time he actually started paying attention to his body..I guess that would be too much research..

 

The Ravens just gave Joe Flacco a 100 million dollar contract so perhaps they were not in a position to re-up their expiring guys. To say they weren't willing to pay Ellerbe, or Reed, Cary Williams, Boldin, Kruger etc for that matter b/c they were not worth what they got from other teams is highly presumptuous. It's the kind of logic someone would use if they had a predetermined point they wanted to arrive at.

 

Which teams with edge rushing specialists have had historical success against the Patriots? The point is that inside pressure is more effective, not that you shouldn't play DEs at all.

 

Fallacy then becomes the only way to generate inside pressure is via DT's, and the only way to find a DT who could do that was in the draft at #12 or below..guess what..there was no one who could do that from #3-#12

The other approach is to generate outside pressure (as the Stealers did in beating them) via two dynamic passrushers.

 

In all honesty Deej, I dunno if getting rid of Dansby & Burnet for Ellerbee and Wheeler was the right call in the long run. I hope it was and I understand the rationale behind the decision, but I don't know if it'll work.

Having said that, to blast the switch for made up reasons like Dansby being a playmaker or because you think we spent too much when we actually saved money is why I take exception to Evans' stance on this.

 

We did back in the day. If getting Dion Jordan was a mistake because Tom Brady is impervious to edge rushers, then no, you shouldn't play pass rushing DEs, you should trot out more coverage guys to stop the unstoppable 2 TEs.

Or I dunno, bring in a guy who can do both.....no that's crazy.

 

Right. And nobody said Tom Brady is impervious to edge rushers.

And again, this all comes back to your belief that Dion Jordan can do the things you project he can. Certainly a fair belief (one that I agree with), but reality is that these projections are often highly disputed, and often end up failing. The fact that Evans disagrees with your evaluation by no means constitutes blasphemy.

 

14 starts is enough tape to know what you want, the signing of Ellerbe has more to do with a downhill aggressive style that wasn't on our team, the fact that he was a starting linebacker on a superbowl winning team, youth, and the fact that he played next to and absorbed knowledge from ray Lewis..7 mill a year I think is an appropriate swap for a past his prime overpaid linebacker.

I don't believe Evans was well researched in this point, he didnt articulate to his audience.

 

I agree.

At the same time, I don't believe anyone who disagrees to be inherently biased.