Hartline's Zona receptions. Follow the White Guy. (images of every catch)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ToddPhin, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I thought it was a fade with Peterson basically boxing Hartline out and putting himself in better position to make a play.
     
  2. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    87,116
    54,275
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    thanks. perhaps a bigger target makes it an easier throw. But that's asking a lot for Hartline to beat Peterson there on a back shoulder. It just seems to me like a low % pass to begin with.
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  3. alen1

    alen1 New Member

    52,811
    20,365
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    Not all fades are thrown equally.
     
  4. alen1

    alen1 New Member

    52,811
    20,365
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    It's not anything more than we see with guys like Jordy Nelson doing it.

    Example: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d823d6af7/Nelson-s-end-of-the-half-TD-catch

    Difference being where they teach the ball placement and of course, Aaron Rodgers' accuracy.
     
  5. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    87,116
    54,275
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    I also think Hartline was moved closer to the sideline at the beginning of the play due to the press coverage... he's not as strong as Nelson in that regard and Peterson has out played him at the LOS. The window for the back shoulder is smaller due to that IMO.
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    All this shows is that Peterson put himself into better position to make a play.
    The ball was released well before this point (as you can see below), and it looked like a called fade rather than a back-shoulder.


    [​IMG]
     
  7. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    especially when your receiver isn't very good at them. That can make a lot of fades look worse than they really are, no?
     
  8. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Grabs popcorn.
     
    ToddPhin and djphinfan like this.
  9. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

    5,802
    5,616
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    NJ
    Didn't we have a 3rd and goal from the 20 yard line at 3-0? And didn't we gain 19 yards on a pass play which set up a 4th and goal from the 1, that we then went on to score?

    That was my favorite play of the game. I assumed draw up the middle, or dump off screen pass. I absolutely was shocked by the aggression. Loved it. And it got us a touchdown and very well could've been the reason we went on to win the game.

    An example of being able to pass in the redone when expectations were low
     
  10. alen1

    alen1 New Member

    52,811
    20,365
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    Of course but Hartline wasn't bad at it here.

    Anticipation as I see it but could be wrong.
     
  11. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Catch 5
    57 yarder, 1 on 1 vs William Gay, no safety help over the top.
    No press to beat.
    Great route and fake by Hartline.
    Nice pocket to buy time.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Zona gave us that pass underneath, probably thinking they'd stop us and we'd take the FG.
     
  13. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

    52,658
    25,575
    113
    Nov 13, 2009

    [​IMG]
     
  14. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Catch 6
    19 yarder in the redzone vs soft zone (rookie Jamell Felmming/Paris Lennon). No press to beat.
    Zona gives up the throw underneath (to either side, ours to choose).
    Easy pitch and catch.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Zona giving up the throw underneath.
    [​IMG]

    Hartline with the catch (below) and some daylight
    . [​IMG]

    Hartline not picking up any YAC (yards after contact).
    Thankfully JTrain converted on 4th & 1.
    This is another example of Hartline not being able to create much on his own [with the ball in his hands].
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

    4,796
    2,760
    113
    Feb 27, 2012
    Miami
    I don't understand. Are people seriously arguing here who deserves more credit in these pass and catches between OUR QB and OUR WR?? Is that really what's going on here?

    Oh and btw, as soon as everyone comes to peace with the fact that Heartline is a solid above average WR, but not quite good enough to be the first choice type a team needs to be a serious threat, then all these petty arguments will at least be subdued.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    No YAC? It seems to me he caught it at the 7 yard line and took it to the 1 yard line.
     
    Rhody Phins Fan likes this.
  17. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

    5,802
    5,616
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    NJ
    Either way, scoring a TD after a 3rd and goal from the 20 is something I can never remember seeing. At least not in the past decade.

    Coaching and QB have to be commended for the aggression (there were 2 safer routes on that same play). And Hartline has to be commended for getting that to the goalline. He put us in position to score a TD. Something that won't show up on the stat sheet, but like I said, that could've been the reason we won that game had we stopped that 4th and 10.
     
    MrClean and MikeHoncho like this.
  18. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

    5,802
    5,616
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    NJ
    It was closer than the 3. More like the 1 yard line. Hartline did very well on that play. Essentially got us 4 points.
     
    Anonymous likes this.
  19. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Catch 7
    Easy 6 yard out vs Toler (and Lenon?) on 1st & 10. Again, no press to beat.
    I really don't know what Zona thinks they're trying to do here with this busted coverage.
    Is Lenon supposed to go all the way from showing blitz to the flat to cover a receiver on this play?... or was it blown by Toler?
    Either way, terrible coverage.

    [​IMG]

    (right before his break)
    [​IMG]

    (following his break just prior to reception)
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    After looking at the play by play, you're right. He went down at the one.
     
  21. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Sorry, was referring to this YAC as "yards after contact".
     
  22. shouright

    shouright Banned

    22,845
    8,861
    0
    Dec 13, 2007
    That's assuming the team wants a first choice.
     
  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    107,302
    92,957
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    Orygun
    All his yards went for nothing because we were -2 on turnovers.
     
  24. alen1

    alen1 New Member

    52,811
    20,365
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    No.
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    107,302
    92,957
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    Orygun
    I think the argument is Hartline was allowed to run free for most of the game because the defense was focused on shutting down Bush, so had their safeties nearly always overplaying the run.
     
  26. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

    13,171
    9,146
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Hamilton, Ontario Canada
    Really? I thought we lost because we kept turning the damn ball over.

    Somehow Hartline could be double covered every play with Bush not even in the game..put up 100 yards and you'd still find ways to discredit him. Guess what........90% of WR's see this every week. There are only a handful of WR's dominant enough to game plan against and double a lot.
     
  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Catch 8
    1 on 1 press coverage verse Peterson for 30 yards. No safety help.
    Great all around play.
    Coverage is initially solid IMO, but Peterson gets caught out of position while watching Tannehill nearly getting sacked and subsequently taking a few steps & looking like he might scramble. It's enough hesitation to let Hartline slip behind him, and Tanny drops it in over the top.
    Outstanding play by Tannehill. Nice catch by Hartline on the other end.

    [​IMG]

    Tannehill avoiding the sack. Coverage by Peterson is currently tight.
    [​IMG]

    At this moment (below) Peterson is looking back at Tanny after just escaping the sack,
    and he gets himself out of position b/c of it. It's great what a mobile QB can do for you!
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    117,247
    74,922
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    The question is is this regimes plan to win with two Harts and two Bess's.?
     
  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Not really IMO. We also had a short field opportunity to convert a TO into a TD, but we couldn't. Zona did.
    We were less productive on the opponent's side of the field (excluding turning it over in Zona territory), and it showed up in the point's column.
     
  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Go back and look at the stats when we were on Zona's side of the field compared to Zona on ours. That tells a much bigger story than the turnovers. Don't forget, Zona also turned it over inside our own 5 yard line, so that counts as a double whammy by essentially taking points off their board. If we had as much efficiency on Zona's side as they did on ours, the turnovers wouldn't have mattered and it would've never went to overtime.
     
  31. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

    13,171
    9,146
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Hamilton, Ontario Canada
    You've lost it. 3 turnovers in the final 9 minutes of this game is exactly why we lost this game. Your not convincing a single solitary person in your posts that are bordering on obsessive compulsion. Yes we get it....Hartline wasn't focused during the game. All any coach asks of his WR's is to beat his 1 on 1 matchups and that's what Hartline did....beautifully. But it does NOTHING to diminish the type of day he put up. Get over it cause the most this season goes on the more foolish your going to look.
     
    Anonymous likes this.
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    107,302
    92,957
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    Orygun
    Very seldom is a team -2 for turnovers and wins the game. We could try to dissect the circumstance of each turnover and show why this was one of the rare times when a -2 team should have won, but I don't really buy it as being unique.
    Remove the Washington forced fumble or the Rhodes INT, and we most likely win the game.
     
  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Whatever floats your boat, man. If you want to keep the straw man stuff up, go ahead, I won't stop you.

    I'm pointing out that this wasn't some glorious day like many fans and media are trying to make it seem. If Zona actually wanted to stop or significantly limit Hartline, they would've. Instead they limited the strength of our offense, the running game, so excuse me for not being excited when the opposing team's defensive game plan works extremely well outside of an 80 yard busted coverage TD and a FG thanks to an INT on Zona's 34. We created 2 turnovers that were converted into 10 points, just as many as Zona did; we were essentially made us 1 dimensional; and Zona gave up the short/underneath stuff most all game long.



    If Sean Smith doesn't pick Kolb to give us the ball on Zona's 34 and if Zona's defense doesn't blow coverage on a deep crossing route TD, then Hartline has 11 catches for 173 yards and we lose the game 21-11. Zona would likely & happily allow that kind of scoreless performance to a non-playmaking WR every week if it means shutting down the run game, taking away their opponent's strength, and making them one dimensional.
     
  34. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

    10,069
    2,624
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    West Virginia
    LOL, You had me for a minute Phinsational. Kudos!!!:up:

    I figured this **** out on page 2...:lol:
     
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    remove Sean Smith's INT in the endzone that turned into 7 points for us after the 80 yard busted coverage TD and Zona wins the game. It goes both ways.
    Plus, turnovers resulted in 10 points for each team, which is why I said the -2 in TOs was less significant in this case than efficiency on the opponents side of the field. Also, we never turned the ball over inside scoring range; Zona did (on our 2 or 3 yard line).
     
  36. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,566
    25,123
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I'm not trying to "have anything". Just being realistic.
     
  37. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

    10,069
    2,624
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    West Virginia
    Sure..../wink
     
  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    107,302
    92,957
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    Orygun
    TOs can effect it also by preventing points, not just leading to points on the subsequent possession. Remove Naanee's fumble and Smith's end zone int doesn't happen either.

    The Washington FF came when at the AZ41, so about ten yards from FG range for us. The Rhodes INT came at the MIA47, so about 15 yards from FG range for them.
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,544
    33,044
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    This is now the top 5 most ridiculous statement I have ever read.

    If Tannehill doesn't fumble on the 50 or the Dolphins don't allow a 4th and 10 touchdown, then Miami wins.

    So basically what you are saying is that it doesn't matter that Miami was able to score more touchdowns than anyone else against Arizona, and that Hartline scored one and set up another.
     
    Two Tacos likes this.
  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,544
    33,044
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    That is a laugh. I have never seen such fantasy posting.
     

Share This Page