Hartline wants 5-6 million per season

Ah OK. Well thanks for the clarification. I thought we were talking about Einstein's theory of relativity.

 

That's not reflective of Hartline. That's more on the Quarterbacks than Hartline.

How is it a player like Lance Moore can grab 10 touchdowns in one season but Hartline cannot?

 

Because Moore doesn't trip and fall every other play?

 

Wow, five million dollars a year seems like a lot of money for a guy who isn't ranked very high on my Madden franchise and didn't score a lot of fantasy football points last year!

 

Are you sure?

Maybe he trips and falls every other play, and the TDs he catches are due to Drew Brees.

 

Crabtree was tied for 10th in TDs. Not a stat you chose, but Torrey Smith was 5th in yards per catch.

 

The correct answer was Moore had Brees and Hartline had Henne/Tannehill.

 

Yeah, the anomaly is the yards are too high.

In fact, considering that Hartline's TD totals are similar in different offenses, in different positions, with different QBs, it tells me his yardage was due to Tannehill's talent and his TDs were more of the same. At this point, its not hard to see a better WR having an incredible year with Tannehill throwing to him.

And that would likely have us winning a few more games. What Shou is not telling everyone is that TDs correlate to winning, it just doesn't matter which offensive skill position is getting them. However, no one in their right mind could rationally argue that more TDs increases the odds of winning.

 

While 4 would be nice, I don't think 5 is unreasonable.

 

I think his point was, and its valid, that wr production is dependent on qb play. Pass rusher sacks and db ints merely depend on the one player executing.

That said if we're going to resign Hartline at 5-6M and then spend another 7-10M signing one from Jennings/Wallace/Bowe thats 12-16M. We can spend about 16 and land Jennings and Bowe at that point. Who wouldn't sign for that lol.

 

I was joking but thanks for the backhanded response.

 

QB play is also dependent on WR play. The fact the other side of argument refuses to acknowledge that is a major problem.

 

I just gave my reason. I didn't know you were joking.

 

The other side was saying previously in a different thread that Matt Ryan throwing to Bess, Hartline and Fasano would be just as effective as him throwing to White, Jones and Gonzalez. Now it appears the Saints WRs are being brought up to make the same argument. On the flip side, they apparently don't think Tannehill would be aided by having White, Jones and Gonzalez rather than Bess, Hartline and Fasano.
The entire notion that WRs are aided by the quality of the QB, but the QBs are not aided by the quality of the receivers seems preposterous to me.

 

Actually the people who base their opinions off their Madden franchise have the salary cap off so $5,000,000 per year is nothing to them.

 

Completely agree. My point was wr is dependent on another player doing their job (the qb). A DE getting a sack is an individual effort. A wr making a play on the ball is an individual effort. Its not a level comparison. I agree with what A4E was saying believe me. I've been banging that drum for months about getting Tannehill some weapons lol.

 

That's because their argument is predicated on average rookie QB ratings. Tannehill scored in the average rookie rating ergo he was an average rookie. Its circular logic. Because its so circular their side cannot fathom that Hartline doesn't score a lot of TDs regardless of who his QB is, what offense he's playing in and what position he's playing.

 

Agreed.

The thing is, for the most part QBs do make the WR, but sometimes when the WR is exceptionally good or exceptionally bad, they can and do effect QB numbers outside of the QB's control. 1 TD is exceptionally bad but right around the norm for Hartline, that more than anything points the finger at Hartline.

 

Surely, he can't be serious.

 

From another thread:

 

Hartline is expendable, this is a guy who's lone TD came on a blown coverage. he went the whole year and didn't score once against a set defense lol...i mean lets raise our standards here people. why pay Hartline 5-6 mil when you can sign a Brandon Gibson or a Dominik Hixon for less? if Hixon came here and got 130 targets he'd have more yards and more TDs than Hartline.

 

TD passes in general are significantly more strongly correlated with winning than TD passes to wide receivers. On top of that, the percentage of TDs thrown to wide receivers correlates with winning virtually nil.

I agree. And I sure haven't argued that here or anywhere else. The issue here is what to pay Hartline specifically, and to make that judgment you have to go beyond Hartline and place his performance in the context of both the Miami Dolphins in general and how the NFL functions in general.

 

And it's entirely possible it could do him no significant good.

 

so he caught exactly 8.46 YPA against #1 corners, 8.46 vs #2 corners, and 8.46 vs nickel/3rd-4th string corners? That's amazing.


....wait, or did he average 8.46 overall and you're just saying his YPA was 8.46 vs #1 corners b/c he was a "primary" receiver this year?

 

still running with that lunatic argument I see.

 

Please stop. You're making me sick at this point.

 

Put me on your ignore list.

 

Not true. He score most of his fantasy points in 1 game. Anyone who started him that week made out like a bandit.

 

It's a legitimate question, Lucy. Why else would Adam make the claim Hartline's YPA was against "#1" corners? It's obviously not due to researching what corners Brian actually faced and the percentages involved b/c then he wouldn't have said the Hitman's 8.46 YPA was against #1 corners. The only deduction one can make is Adam is basing his argument on Hartline being the primary receiver, hence always facing other team's top corners, which is quite ridiculous.

 

not really. Hey why does tom brady face everyones starting defenses?

 

You're still reading my posts?

 

True...counted Gronkowski's TDs, but taking into account he is TE Crabtree would be tied for 10th among WR. Of course, the trade off with Smith is Flacco only completed 49 of 110 passes (44.5%) in order to get that high of ypc. His YPA (YPT...yards per target) of 7.77 is much less than Hartline. Also, Bolden certainly drew a lot of attention from the opposing team's secondary.

 

How far back would you like this WR list to go?

I guess top tier QBs don't matter either considering Flacco is in the Super Bowl. Add that to the silly argument circulating that linemen are overrated and perhaps we should be looking to build the offense around average talent, am I right. We could accomplish that in one offseason if we play our cards right, and then boom, SB next year.

Oh wait, we've already gone the lack of talent route, and it hasn't worked.

 

This is the key part of this post. When you look at the yards per target for Hartline and Bess in 2012, they were at a level generally similar to that of receivers who were being thrown passes by QBs who performed much better overall.

 

Because unlike receivers there's only 1 QB on the field at a time?

 

Just say it so I can get a good laugh- you'd take Hartline over Torrey Smith.




BTW, it's not as big a trade off as NOT SCORING TDs and NOT being a playmaker.

 

No...I had Marshall in mind when I wrote that.

Speaking about Jennings. Is Miami that much better off releasing Hartline and signing Jennings, 30 years old with some wear and tear coming off an injuries (10.2 ypc, 5.08 ypa/t) for $9-$10 million? And I am not saying I wouldn't think Jennings would be a nice addition b/c I do. But I certainly don't think the WR position is much improved letting Hartline walk and signing Jennings especially at a cost of an extra $3-$4 million per year.

 

So what positions would you not balk at us putting a little money into?
Just curious, where do you expect our scoring to come from if you don't want to invest money in offensive skill players? Is Hartline gonna take the newly developed playmaker pills?

 

Perhaps the quarterback will get better and Hartline will return to the number of TDs he was catching per reception before Tannehill showed up, and then some?