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Hartline: Too early to say if Tannehill is a franchise QB

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    The question should be; Is it too early to cut Hartline?

    I can't wait until this cut is announced... I wonder if he'll fall down when he hears the news?:shifty:
     
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  2. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it'll happen at all but if it does it probably won't be until we're trying to get down to 53, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
     
  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    If they cut him, it will be for cap room reasons. If he plays training camp, he will most likely make the team.
     
  4. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It depends on your definition of "franchise QB". I would say that Dalton is a franchise QB and that Tannehill is already better than him. But I don't equate the term "franchise" with "elite" or "top 5" as many others do. IMO a franchise QB is a starter level QB that gives you a chance to win every year. Tannehill is already that. I think that in this system he's already a top 10 QB. Once he got comfortable in the system he clearly performed at that level for the balance of the year. I don't see him as an elite QB or a top 5 guy even though he may eventually reach that level. But I don't see it as reasonable to have expected him to be there yet. I said since before we drafted him that IF he reached that level it wouldn't be until year 5. If your definition is one that equates to "elite" or "top 5" than I agree that it's too early and nothing Hartline said seems shocking or out of line.
     
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  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Audio starts at 37:35

    Here's the transcript:

    Interviewer: "Ryan Tannehill. How comfortable are you guys with that young guy, going forward?"

    Hartline: "You know I think it's kinda, it's not fair to really fair to say at this point only because we had a new offense this year. Coach Lazor came in from Philly and really implemented the things that he wanted done. Changing a lot of Ryan's mechanics, he's worked hard all year, you know, to change 'this', and tweak 'that', and really to have it all come together, you know, over the last eight games, you know, it's really great for him. I know he's feeling more comfortable so, I think at this point it's probably a little too early to really say, erm, one way or the other, you know? You know, we know he's competitive, we know that he's a hard guy, we know he's tougher than nails and, er, you know he'll do anything you ask him. So, um, I would say, er, that you know, ... I'd say go ahead with him, give it another year, get some more wins and we can talk about that further down the road."
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    All I read there is Hartline hates Tannehill so much that he wants to go back in time and murder his father so he will never be born.
     
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  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Seriously, I don't know how anyone can read that and not come away with Hartline dissing Tannehill as "professionally" as possible.
     
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  8. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    So you give Tannehill ALL the credit the other 3 quarters, but none of the fault in the 4th quarter.... got it!
     
  9. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Hartline had some nice gains on slants late in the year, he can do that in his game. Problem is the coaching staff for some bizarre reason doesn't call slants. 6'2 with some speed and decent hands can be a weapon, but our offense just doesn't use it
     
  10. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    I'm not buying that. I see very good value in the $3.2M you save by cutting Hartline.
    I trust the management team will see Hartline is not a big play receiver, he is not a red zone weapon, and he can't make plays with the ball in his hand.

    You cant pay him nearly 7.5M. His skill set is very easily replaced (and cheaply).... that money can go to one of the many other holes that need filling.
     
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  11. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    "Would you like your tires checked?"

    [​IMG]
     
  12. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    To be fair , he blocks well on WR screens. :yes:
    I didn't think it was Hartline's incompatibility with Lazors system, it was Lazor not utilizing Brian properly.
    I'm not into numbers, but I'm sure Wallace had a lot more targets the first 15 games. Look what BH did when he took Wallace's place in the last game? He had his best game all season. Because the OC called the same game plan maybe?
    Really a shame because Hartline was left 1 on 1 in many games that I watched, and was a 3rd or 4th read of Tanny all season.
     
  13. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod Staff Member

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    Okay kids, I've just spent the last half hour cleaning this thread up, and, against my better judgment, I'm leaving it up. For now. . Please keep your comments on the topic at hand and not about other posters. Any further derailment of this thread will result in points.
     
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  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    And...why? Were those also Tannehill's road splits extrapolated out? If not, why not?
     
  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Against my better judgement...did anyone else notice the irony in this warning? LOL

    I'll be good, I promise. Was a long week at work this week.
     
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  16. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I love how every player is supposed to be this macho guy who is tough as nails. But the second a teammate says anything remotely critical fans freak out like the player being criticized can't handle it. Don't get me wrong. I'm all about having a teammate's back and when being critical having it be constructive. But fans can't have it both ways.
     
  17. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And yeah, Hartline isn't suited for this offense. But jeez, some people act like he's stealing his paycheck. The guy was productive before this year. He's arguably getting the most out of his abilities. Short memories.
     
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  18. DcDolfan420

    DcDolfan420 Banned

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    Yea and it's kinda difficult to reply to a thread entitled "Hartline: Too early to say if Tannehill is a franchise QB" when in the entire interview, the words "franchise QB" weren't even mentioned. Having an opinion and reading into a comment is one thing, but completely making a comment up is something entirely different.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Um, it seems to me, after reading the Hartline quote again, that the thread title is simply a much more succinct way of saying what Hartline stumbled through.

    Bottom line, if Hartline thought Tannehill was a franchise QB, he wouldn't have answered the way he did.
     
  20. speed

    speed Banned

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    Tannehill haters see things in their own way. They have their own reality. Facts and the truth do not matter to them.

    It's really fascinating how they see things that just aren't there.
     
  21. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    That's been going on around here for years.
     
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  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    grass: Too early to say if Hartline will stop tripping on me

    balance: Too early to say if Hartline will cure vertigo

    football: Too early to say if Hartline will catch me this year
     
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  23. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    let me say this about Hartline I rather have two Tannehill's then a 100 Hartlines anyday.

    n fact Lamar Thomas has more pass catching yards in the Miami Denver game then what Hartline has for a entire season I saw the stats somewhere and truthfully I would rather have A 45 YEAR OLD Lamar Thomas then a any year Hartline .
     
  24. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Ryan Tannehill had a 98 passer rating and 7 yards per carry with a TD since Joe Philbin didn't name him the starter
     
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  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Gravity: I like Hartline
     
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  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Endzone: Does Hartline need mapquest?
     
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  27. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    He's a GPS type of guy...
     
  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Ground Prevents Scores?
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    last five games..I thought he played pretty average ball...think he has about 7 tds 4 ints..maybe a 90 qbr.
     
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  30. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He was outplayed by Geno Smith then if that's the case. Over the last 4 games Geno had what, a 105 QBR?
     
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  31. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That happens to most QBs when their support declines and especially young QBs. Wilson had a 5 game stretch last year when his supporting cast was struggling where he had a 72.7 rating, 3 TDs and 4 INTs.
     
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  32. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Here's an interesting article comparing QBs by looking at each QB's performance graph based on QBR (elite QB's all have a similar curve with a bump on the extreme right side, inconsistent QBs all have a bump on both sides, mediocre QBs have a bump more in the middle, etc, etc).

    Article: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-10-types-of-nfl-quarterbacks/?ex_cid=espnFB

    interactive comparison tool: https://michaellopez.shinyapps.io/my_app/

    I've compared Tannehill with all of the potential starters and based on the data what I found:

    Clearly worse than
    Rodgers
    Roethlisberger
    Newton
    Kaepernick
    Brees
    E. Manning
    Cutler
    Flacco
    Matt Ryan
    Schaub
    Stafford
    Foles
    P Manning
    Rivers
    Bridgewater
    Brady
    Romo
    Wilson

    Inconclusive/similar to
    Dalton
    Palmer
    Manuel
    Locker
    Orton
    Glennon

    Clearly better than
    Alex Smith
    Bortles
    Hoyer
    Geno
    Sanchez
    Cassel
    Bradford
    Carr

    The list he's clearly better than is small and contains a few rookies/young QBs. The list he compares well with is not very flattering. And the list of QBs clearly better than him is 18 players long, which means Tannehill slots in somewhere between 19 to about the 25 or 26 range.
     
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  33. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Only person on top list I would clearly take RT17 over is Schaub and Cutler, I do like Bridgewater's potential better then RT17, and Stafford and Kaepernick are arguable.
     
  34. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box


    Thanks Roy. Very very interesting, though worrying. I mean, the company Ryan is in is uninspiring.

    Ah well, if we flush Philbin and hickey after this year an all new regime would likely pick their own new QB.
     
  35. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That list is LOL terrible.
     
  36. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The problem with ESPN's QBR is that it's dependent on so many factors outside of how well the QB plays. The standard example is when two QBs complete a drive that gives their team the lead with one minute left and neither sees the field again. QB #1 wins the game as his D stops the opponent. QB #2 loses the game when his defense gives up a TD as time expires. In both situations the QBs did the exact same thing. A rating that was an accurate measure of a QB's performance would rate them equally. But in ESPN's QBR, QB #2 has a much lower rating. ESPN's QBR is really a measure of a team's quality rather than of a QB's quality. Subsequently, any analysis using ESPN's QBR is more reflective of a team's quality than the QB's quality.
     
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  37. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    What's interesting is that if you simply take a portion of ESPN's QBR (total clutch-weighted expected points added) and evaluate QBs using that alone, I think you have a more valid measure of QB play that isn't as influenced by team factors. Click here and see how they ranked on that basis in 2014: http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/sort/cwepaTotal
     
  38. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a fan of QBR either but I suspect the curves would be similar regardless of the metric used. Its an interesting way to compare QBs for me because when I'm looking for predictors its the bump on the right side that I'm always in search of.
     
  39. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This measure is certainly more encouraging and more how I picture him. Upper middle of the road at this point.
     
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  40. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I do believe that using an expected points added measure (I think Football Outsiders uses something similar) yields a more accurate representation of the QBs performance. IMO your link shows a more accurate representation of the 2014 QB performances.
     
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