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Gun Advice

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by KeyFin, Feb 15, 2018.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Quick question. I'm not a gun owner, not because I'm against them, but I never felt comfortable having them in the house with my older kid (who has now moved out). I've had someone snooping around my house in the middle of the night at least twice though this past week and that thinking has 100% changed...I'm buying something this week. Also, I'm in SC so there's no waiting time or anything.

    Anyway, my neighbor has a 25 foot clay embankment on the back of her property that they specifically left for shooting so I can get proficient with anything. What do I want for basic home defense though? Shotgun? A 9MM? A revolver? The criteria are that I'm not spending much because I won't ever use it (maybe the $250-350 range) AND it has to be something that my wife and 16 year old daughter can shoot comfortably.

    Other thoughts- the most likely use for the gun besides home defense would be rattlesnakes (good chance...we see 1-2 per year) or coyotes/bobcats (semi-decent chance...they're here but generally stay away). I welcome any opinions because this isn't my thing at all.
     
  2. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Ideally a Smith & Wesson 500 would suit your needs just fine. Good time fun for the whole family.
     
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  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I took a look...here's the features-
    [​IMG]
    • Most powerful production revolver in the world today
    • Massive .500 S&W Magnum cartridge - 2600 ft/lb. muzzle energy
    • A hunting handgun for any game animal walking
    • Removable high efficiency compensator
    • HIVIZĀ® Red Dot interchangeable front sight

    In other words, if an angry elephant ever showed up, we'd have a fighting chance. =)
     
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  4. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    :chuckle:

    Well, I mean if you wanna make sure the rattle snakes are dead and all.
     
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  5. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would HIGHLY recommend that you not go out and buy any gun on a whim. Take yourself, and anyone else in your house who may shoot, to a professional instructor and learn weapons safety first. Then, go to a range that rents guns and shoot a number of them. Then, buy a .22 pistol or .22 rifle and put a few 1000 rounds through it at the range. Then, decide what weapon you prefer. Personally, for home defense nothing beats a shotgun. Not a Granny from Beverly Hillbillies shotgun, but something like a Mossberg 500: https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/...hot-15mosa50012g20cbgspg/15mosa50012g20cbgspg

    If you also want to have a little fun at the range: Glock 17

    Basically, shotgun or a striker fired hand gun would be your best bet AFTER you train.

    For the rattlesnakes, coyotes...any .22 caliber rifle would be best.
     
  6. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets

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    Great advice.

    Also you and your family need to think about something. Can you kill someone? Because if you pull a weapon on an intruder
    in self defense, and you can't pull the trigger you're dead. If you try to wound them or scare them off same thing can happen.
    Pull a weapon on someone you need to be ready willing and able to kill. And if you do, empty the clip, make sure the jobs done.

    Lots of Law Enforcement types will tell you are better off getting a dog.

    I feel you Key, I got rid of my weapons when we had kids, didn't want them in the house. Too many accidents. But I send my whole family off to a school every day. My two girls, my wife is a public school teacher, My brother in law and his wife are teachers, my mom is a teacher (retired now but she still volunteers a few days a week) and I'm ready to rearm.
    I am a bit liberal when it comes to gun control. I don't think the average citizen needs an AR-15 and all the military hardware available so easily today. I think we need national regulation and background checks etc. I grew up with guns, when I was a kid we would bring our shot guns to school and rack them in the principals office so we could go bird hunting on the way home. Boy Scouts, Army etc. I've sent thousands of rounds down range. Sometimes at targets, and sometimes at "targets". Hard decision to make.

    As far as weapon choice, for home defense, definitely the shotgun. Better odds of hitting something in a panic. Consider your "terrain" also. A 9mm bullet will go thru walls and can hit neighbors or others in your home that are behind your target. Shotgun gives you a wider kill zone with a much shorter range.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  7. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I hear ya, but calling an AR an "assault rifle" is just not factually correct. And I'm confused by your military hardware comment.

    If you read what I wrote in the "Just to Talk" thread I go into detail what I think needs to happen and WHY the AR has become the weapon of choice for these people. However, an AR is no more deadly than most any other rifle.
     
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  8. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets

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    Body armor, 30+ rd magazines, bump stocks etc. Don't need any of that for hunting ducks. Maybe we have the "right" to own those kinds of things, but it shouldn't be so easy. Weapons like the AR-15 whose sole purpose is killing people should be hard to get, not easy.
     
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  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I actually shot about 100 rounds with a friend's Ruger .22 pistol and I liked it a lot....it's like shooting a pellet gun basically. That's probably what I'll start with since I haven't shot on a consistent basis in years.
     
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  10. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Shotgun. Big spread. If you're startled in the middle of the night you're going to miss with your pistol or not finish the job most likely.
     
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  11. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    ....and definitely load it with some Dragon's Breath shells!
     
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  12. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Those are good on spiders.
     
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  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    How 'bout just a little 9mm filled with sodium-potassium liquid alloy rounds? Bet that ruins a watermelon's day worse than an AR-15.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  14. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Body armor can't hurt anyone. I've never seen a need for a 30rd mag, but I can drop a 15 round mag and load another in less than 3 seconds. I can fire my non-bump stock AR as fast as one with a bump stock. I've been able to achieve 7 round per second. Most bump stocks fire at about that rate. (And I'm more accurate without one). A military issued M4 or M16 will fire about 15 rounds per second on full auto. I do see a benefit of regulating all three of these things because they empower people and make them think they are invincible.

    You could make an argument that all guns have a sole purpose of killing people. That's not true, of course. I have AR's because they are fun to shoot and I like shooting guns. And they are nothing like the weapons I shot while in the Marines. Not the M-16. Not the M4. Not a 249, 240, or MK 18. They don't function the same, they don't perform the same, they are not the same other than being able to fire a projectile. An AR is not an "assault weapon" no matter how many times some people say it is. A 249 is an assault weapon.

    I think that if a person wants to own any type or caliber of firearm they should be forced to jump through a lot of hoops and go through training.
     
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  15. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Great choice. I love my Ruger .22. It's cheap to shoot and really fun.
     
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  16. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would caution anyone thinking that a gun will make them safer. Statistically that is not true. I'm not against guns and I can see the benefit in having one for rattlesnakes and other reasons, but every statistical analysis finds that your risks increase. And it's not just careless or untrained gun owners. Simply having a gun in the house increases your risk level. None of that means you shouldn't get a gun. I enjoy shooting. I believe individuals can make a personal risk assessment and decide something is worth it. I liken it to having a pool. Pools bring enjoyment but also increase risk. I believe there are many reasons to own a gun, but being safer is not one of them for most Americans. As to which gun, I agree with the Glock or something similar. To me the Glock is like a Honda car in that it's reliable, easy and affordable for most. There are better guns and people will have personal preferences, but I find that Glocks seem to be comfortable first guns for most people.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    How do you define assault weapon?
     
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  18. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Honestly, a .22, with a self-defense round, is perfect for home defense, unless the intruder is wearing body armor.

    With a .22 you don't have to worry about stray bullets going through the walls of your home and hitting a family member. They're quieter than most rounds, so you can focus on your aim and not worry about the crack of the round breaking your concentration. It's a small round, so usually you'll be afforded a bigger capacity, which will give you more comfort in the amount of rounds you get in a home invasion scenario. Lastly, they're low recoil and accurate.

    That's my 2 cents. Do yourself and your family a favor though, learn the ins and outs of gun safety before you even get one. Remember the 2 most important rules; finger NEVER on the the trigger until you're absolutely ready to shoot, and always keep the barrel pointed away in case of a misfire. Lastly, get a safe and keep that key on yourself, and nobody else, at all times.
     
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  19. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Anything used to assault a person.

    Assault bat

    Assault screw driver

    Assault car

    Assault spoon

    The only weapons, true weapons, that are made specifically for "assaulting" people are what you'd find in any military armory. They are full automatic rifles with select-fire capabilities. Yes, some civilians go through the lengthy process, and have the $10K+, to own these types of weapons, but an Ar-15 is not an "assault rifle".
     
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  20. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A lot of people believe that the "AR" in "AR-#" stands for assault rifle, when really, its just an unfortunate coincidence.
     
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  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Sorry, you must of misspoke then, because in the post aI had quoted you said the AR is not an assault weapon.
     
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  22. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Owning a car, a pool (as you stated), having electricity, a bathtub, a toaster, a furnace, stairs, Legos, and the list goes on and on, make a person "less safe" and increases a person's risk level.

    Every single discharge from a firearm is man caused. A firearm can, and does thousands of times per year, protect people. A gun, can, and does thousands of times per year, make a person safer. Yes, there are inherent dangers to owning a firearm. There are inherent dangers to eating food, too. However, if you treat every weapon as if it were loaded. Never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot, and lock your weapons up when not in use they will NEVER hurt a single person on "accident".
     
  23. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    An AR is not an assault rifle. If you bash someone over the head with it or shoot someone with it you are assaulting them and it becomes an assault weapon, but it's not an assault rifle.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I used to shoot a good bit with friends/family in my 20's and I always planned on being a gun owner, but then I got married/had kids and didn't want one in the house for exactly the reason you described. My first born was impulsive and daring as she got older (it turned out she's bipolar/borderline personality disorder) so a gun was never an option in my opinion. She's 19 now though, out of the house and about to get married, so guns are finally back on the table again.

    I always wanted something for the rattlesnakes anyway, but now that we had someone shining a flashlight in our window at 5 AM, it seems like the time. I do want proper training though and I'll follow through with that for my entire household. As Dan said though, I'll probably just go with a Ruger .22 for now so we can eat through a thousand rounds and get very comfortable. What Invid said makes total sense as well...a .22 is light with almost zero recoil and you're not going to take out a gas line in the kitchen if you fire from another area of the house.

    I'm not expecting a home intruder, but you never know and I believe that you have to be prepared regardless. It was just never an option until now.
     
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  25. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Round type is just as important as caliber. If you're going to use a .22 caliber for home defense get a hollow point or other type of fragmenting rounds. This will not only cause more damage to an intruder, but it won't travel through your target and end up in your neighbors house. Same goes with any handgun used for self defense. A .44 with a hollow point won't shoot through your house and end up inside the neighbors home either. lol....So keep that in mind.

    Obviously for the range just get the cheapest ammo you can that doesn't jam your gun. lol
     
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  26. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets

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    The debate over what type of weapon is pointless. Yes, humans can kill each other in all kinds of ways, from bare hands and teeth to nuclear weapons. But weapons like the AR-15 and others in their class are designed to look and feel and create the experience of a military style weapon designed to kill large numbers quickly. It's stupid proof easy to use. Yes someone highly trained can empty a revolver just as quickly. A nineteen year old head case, not so much. Maybe tighter regulations or banning those type weapons won't make a difference. But it would be a start. Flippin do SOMETHING!!!

    I could get behind what Danmarino is proposing here and in the just to talk thread, but is it not time to put the wild wild west to bed?
     
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  27. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    IMO that's the right attitude to have. Despite sensational news stories, home invasions are very rare especially compared to gun accidents. That's even among those doing all the "right things". Humans aren't perfect. We make mistakes and can't account for all the mistakes of others, so accidents happen. But gun ownership has it's benefits too. Some people just "feel safer". I don't have a gun now, but I used to enjoy the ritual of cleaning the gun. I was competitive with myself so I enjoyed improving my accuracy, speed, etc. For me, shooting was almost meditative in that it forced me to focus on what I was doing and forget about everything else. That's what I miss and will probably get back to eventually.
     
  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'm all for arming teachers if they're comfortable with them and get fully certified- there's no reason they can't go through the one-week police training for firearms each year and just re-qualify. We don't even need extra resources for that so I think it's a no-brainer.

    As far as banning weapons, I don't know if that's the answer or not. The Bahamas ban all types of guns (except by police) and the gun violence is way down there.....yet the criminals still have firearms. So the last thing I want is a society where the thugs are armed, but I'm not.
     
  29. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    OP are you in High School?? If so? Fear not....you can still legally purchase an automatic weapon....it will be just like Call of Duty man!!! Only real life!
     
  30. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets

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    My wifes a middle school teacher. Half the boys are bigger than her. As ready as I am to send her to school packing I don't know that there is a way to
    I'd rather see something like a National Guard type service position. Maybe a good paying job for some of our vets. Put a trained killer on the wall at every school. Either full time or a two week tour for every NG, Army Reserve etc.

    there are a little over 98,800 Public schools in America right now. That's jobs for 100,000 vets. Tax the flip outta all guns and ammo to pay for it. Or legalize it nation wide and fed tax some to pay for it. Or pay for that instead of a stupid wall, or hell, we're talking 10 million here to pay someone 75000 a year to stand watch over our children. More than we pay the teachers whom we expect to die for our kids. That's one less cruise missile or bomber, or our foreign aide to dozens of nations.

    I brought the idea up with my local representative and looked at me like I was whacko. I just might get to whacko if I have to watch this ish on the news one more time.
     
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  31. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's a great idea man- using gun tax money to fund school protection with vets.
     
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  32. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Maybe take the 300M our last president tried to sneak to a muslim country before he was officially out of the office??

    That would pay for security guards and metal detectors, right?
     
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  33. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    What happens when you get the one veteran with a screw loose who goes on a rampage at a school?

    Metal detectors aren't going to stop this from happening unless each student is let in individually through a locked door after passing through. What's to stop them from just starting by shooting the guy operating the detector?
     
  34. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets

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    It may not stop all school shootings. Consider this. Out of all active shooter events in the last ten years, 60%, roughly have occurred in a school, from Sandy Hook to Virginia Tech. 40% in the workplace.

    Is it worth investing in protecting the most vulnerable in our society? Can you really not see value in trying? We are averaging 100 mass shootings a year over the last three years. That's shootings with 4 or more victims. 60 per year in school. 10 million, 25 million 100 million worth stopping half of those? Because it would. Probably more like 90%. Id pay more in taxes if it stopped one kid from being murdered while he tries to figure out Algebra.

    Less money than what Jarvis Landry is going to make per year to put an armed guard trained and sworn to protect our children in every school. **** it. Worried about the one vet snapping? Put three then. 50 million a year school security agency. We spend that defending Israel every day.

    Got a better idea?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  35. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hiring armed vets to patrol our schools is an option I wish more would take seriously. Hell, I'd volunteer my time.

    And it should go without saying that these vets should be vetted. And worrying about the "lone crazy vet" is akin to worrying about getting bitten by a shark. A great number of police officers are veterans and very few go crazy and use their service weapon to go on mass shootings.
     
  36. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Source on those percentages?

    What would Vegas fall under?
     
  37. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    You know that you can take "vegas" and "what if X has a screw loose" for literally ANY solution anyone proposes.

    IDC what measures you go to you aren't going to stop dumb people, but what you can do...is take steps to help lessen the success rate of these social media/attention driven idiot little *******s.
     
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  38. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets

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    The 60% number came from the workplace violence active shooter training my company gave us last year. The 300 mass shootings in the last three yeas was from the news. I think that may be three hundred casualties, not incidents however.
    Vegas would be in the 3-5% that are not workplace or school related. That would also include domestics but that is really a separate category.
     
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  39. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    I understand. But the incentive is the notoriety and becoming infamous for these idiots. Maybe you make it harder to do it inside the school with metal detectors and increased security and these guys, instead, start doing it in malls and movie theaters. These senseless shootings won't stop until the media stops publishing these guys pictures and names with 24 hour coverage for a week.

    I caution against turning into a police state.
     
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  40. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm a huge believer in the 2nd amendment. I own AR's, other types of rifles and handguns. However, I'm sick and tired of people getting their hands on weapons when they have no business having them. I don't think an AR is any more dangerous than a handgun. Hell, the deadliest school shooting in American history was accomplished with 2 handguns. However, there needs to be better vetting done for people who want to own guns. Any gun.

    Right now I can walk into any gun store and purchase any type of rifle they carry without a background check. The only thing I'd need is proof of age. With a simple background check (that is not very thorough), I can purchase a handgun. Some states make it a little tougher to own handguns.

    What needs to happen is every state needs the same guidelines. This would stop people from going across state lines and purchasing guns when it's too difficult in their own state. Next, every person who wishes to own a gun needs to go through mandatory training. This training should be consistent across state lines and should be conducted by state trained professional instructors who have also gone through some mental health training. Current or former police officers would be great in this role. If they suspect that someone in their class has a mental health issue they refuse them the permit and refer them to a mental health professional for further testing. If they are deemed fit, they may be issued the permit. And this training has to be both written and practical. Lastly, a person who passes the class and gets the permit should have to have refresher training and subsequent background checks from time to time keep their permit active. All drivers must do this. All medical professional must do this. All people who do something that can potentially take a life, except gun owners, must do this. As a concealed weapons permit holder I must recertify every 5 years and have a repeat background check done, but if I just want a gun for my home, I don't.
     
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