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Guard ... Where do we really stand today?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PHINANALYST, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    For the group, in order to help refine our draft options against 'need' - i'm continuing to do a few threads on a couple positions .... today its G.

    Most likely our starting Guards today are Incognito and Jerry ...

    We have Murtha as an ERFA
    We have Garner as a RFA
    We signed Barbre from SEA and GB
    We have Feinga as a CFL developmental prospect
    And McQuistan is a journeyman FA.

    Incognito had a decent/good season and reminded everyone that he can also play C. At 6'3" - I would guess that this regime would prefer to have him at C, add the fact that he can get to the 2d level - where Berger doesn't.

    Jerry did not fair well last year, and needs to show some serious growth to win a starting spot at G.

    Garner has shown he can play G, C and even T - and assuming we resign him, will be the biggest challenger at 1 of the G spots.

    Murtha is another T prospect that could transfer inside to G, but would need to get stronger.

    Barbre was injured and not very successful at T, and is yet another prime candidate to move inside to G -- but for this regime, he would have to gain some weight ... as 305 is 'light' for this FO.

    McQuistan was marginal at G ... but was needed last year .... a serviceable option - but not preferred.

    So, what do the examiners think of Jerry, Murtha and Barbre ?? We know Murtha hasn't stayed healthy, and may be better suited at G. What about Barbre since we picked him up from SEA/GB late in the season??

    All of these candidates are 6'4" and weigh ~ 320 (less Barbre) to fit the FOs requirements.

    We know Garner can earn 1 of the G positions, if we resign him and if he is healthy.

    We know Carey can play G as well, albeit, he wasn't spectacular his last go around there .... and add the fact that he'd have zero mobility and a big contract $$$$$.

    What i will say is that i am not a fan of Vernon moving to G .... and that IF the intent is to move Incognito to C -- then unless Feinga shows some serious development, we are automatically left with Jerry and Garner. There is some comfort with Garner, provided he is healthy .... but big questions surround Jerry.

    Who is ready to step in take charge of either G position ?? Anyone other than Garner, who is not guaranteed to return ?? If not, then it highlights again a 'need' at G that this regime has tried to fix on the cheap the last 2 years with mediocre at best results. What we know is that this FO does not like to choose Gs early in the draft .... but the lingering need may force their hand finally go big with either Pouncey or Watkins.

    I won't cover C, since it is fairly obvious the 3 options there: Berger, Incognito and Draft (but we won't draft a C in RD1 ... less Pouncey -- but for G, not C).
     
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  2. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    we need a starting center
     
  3. godolphins

    godolphins New Member

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    We need two new guards, even before Garner got injured he wasn't a sure lock to be the starter I think he should be the back up since he can play numerous positions and I don't think Jerry will be the answer for us at guard.
     
  4. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Well, it's Tony's specialty, and he screwed the pooch by tinkering with the unit too much...Soooo.

    Best possible draft is to trade down:
    1. Pouncey
    2. Hankerson
    3. Devine

    However, all these players are rising fast. So I would like to see a trade down

    1. Hankerson
    2. Devine
    3. o-line depth ala Jerry
     
  5. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Is Devine a Guard?.... or are you speaking of the little guy? lol.
     
  6. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    I'm talkin' Sproles 2.0

    [​IMG]

    OOooh yeAh!
     
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  7. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Gardner was with the Bengals practice squad last time I looked
     
  8. godolphins

    godolphins New Member

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    I meant Garner
     
  9. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    alen, i'm double tapping this here, in the Guard thread, but considering this FOs past practices .... the guys that leap out at me as 'meeting' size criteria are: Ijalana, Moffitt and Hurd .... being at least 6'4" and 320 ... Watkins is a little 'light' and Pouncey is both a tad short and light ... we do know this regime likes BIG Gs .... which is another reason why i think - if personnel supports it, Incognito moves to C ....
     
  10. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    23, while i do think Incognito will be our starting C - these threads are intended to help us work through RD1 options, and C just doesn't fit -- given the candidates. Pouncey 'could' end up being a C, but doubt he would start off there even if we did take him in RD1.

    the only other positions i'll cover in separate threads are: WR, RB and OLB ....
     
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  11. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Off-season wise, I think Left Guard is the key. That's the big money, big need. That's your pulling guard, the guy who is going to block your 3-techniques, who is going to pull most frequently, and in the Dolphins case, putting a quality guy next to Jake Long means they have the potential for a dominant "side" to run behind, which I think cannot really be underestimated.

    Center would be nice, but people I think are inappropriately down on Joe Berger, and way too high on Richie Incognito's play at the position. Joe Berger's play at Center in 2009 after Jake Grove went down is better than anything Incognito has done in his professional career. Berger had an inconsistent season last year, and had a couple of very bad games, but from a season long standpoint I don't think you can call him horrible, and I think you need to focus on seeing how you can get his 2009 play back.


    I don't for the life of me understand why people think this. They(Not Sparano, nor Ireland/Parcells who would actually make that decision) didnt decide to screw with a quality line out of boredom or discontent or whatever.

    Jake Grove is out of the league. Justin Smiley is riding the bench on a team that expected him to be a starter. All indications that both had serious injuries that have seemingly ended or threatened their careers, and at very least are demonstrably unable to play at the high level they did in 2009.

    There's certainly an argument that they should have steered away from injury prone players in the first place, but had they kept Grove or Smiley it wouldn't have likely helped anything.
     
  12. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    I'm leaning more towards the 3 tackles (Castanzo, Carimi, Solder) then any guard in the first round. Play em' at left guard
     
  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If BPA ends up being Tackle(Which I think is a possibility), I think you've got to consider it. Or at least Carey to Guard, he might translate a little bit better to the interior than one of those guys will.

    I don't think moving Carey to Guard is an effective use of resources, but given the way the FA market/draft has panned out moving him to Guard and getting another Tackle might end up being the way to get the best five on the field.
     
  14. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    The only way Berger is the starting center in 2011 is if John Jerry does not progress and they put Incognito there. Other wise, Incognito is the starting center for the foreseeable future for Miami. Problem is, I have no faith in Jerry at all progressing.
     
  15. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Dolphins are not moving Carey to any other position except offensive tackle. People talk about guards being able to pull and then people mention Carey at Guard ? Thats funny.
     
  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you say so, but I'm a little bit skeptical that you are going to be allowed to make that decision.

    A guard doesn't *have* to pull, and you're going a bit crazy if you think Vernon Carey can't pull, or if you think Guard is going have less of an athleticism requirement than Tackle. He probably shouldn't be used like Justin Smiley was, but there are guys much less athletically gifted than Carey who can do it. Rex freaking Hadnot can pull, he of 5.5 40 fame.
     
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  17. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Fat *** Jamie Nails thinks Carey could pull just fine. Look at some tape of Carey during running plays. Sometimes he is like 10 yards up field. He may not be the best pulling Guard but I think he can handle it. It's a position he's played before as well.
     
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    why are people so down on John Jerry improving?
     
  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Here's the guy I want------ Harvey Dahl. Watch RG #73 paving the way for Michael Turner.

    [video=youtube;duSIDpoUJMs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duSIDpoUJMs[/video]
     
  20. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Blame Donald Thomas.
     
  21. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Jerry's pass protection enough he could play LG, Carey RG, and Carimi RT. At least that way you have better pass protection and the ability to overwhelm by sheer size in the front five. Pouncey though would be something at LG. Sign a top RB and add in one in the third and that's a heck of a running game.
     
  22. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    I think our interior line issues are overblown. I feel Nate Garner is a very good guard, and should start for us. I also really liked John Jerry in the draft, and feel he'll be a good guard eventually. Then there's Richie Incognito who I feel is better suited at Center. I'm not excited about our depth, but I'd feel good about that starting lineup. Just say no drafting an interior lineman in the 1st round. I'd be ecstatic if we somehow landed Orlando Franklin in round 3 though I doubt he falls that far.
     
  23. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
  24. godolphins

    godolphins New Member

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    Sparano already said Carey is not moving to guard
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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  26. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Yeah, I say so and no, Carey is not a guard nor will he ever be one. Athletic ability has nothing to do in this issue. Its physical ability to move both laterally and quick burst. Careys knees prevent him from accomplishing both and you are welcome for the information.
     
  27. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    My point is why is this an issue this year. This should have been an issue last year. I'd like to think that it didn't take a year for this issue to be recognized or have some plan in place to deal with it as it was readily apparent when he was a collegiate athlete.
     
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  28. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    need to find a starting center & draft competition @ guard
     
  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    How do you know this wasn't an issue last year? That there wasn't a plan in place and Sparano used the media to get the message out to Jerry to keep up with the plan?
     
  30. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    What ever happened to a good ole bullhorn? Or has texting now replaced it?........ which I might add is probably not very effective.
     
  31. finsincebirth

    finsincebirth Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you want the best pulling guard in the nation, then you draft Mike Pouncey. If you want a pretty good with the potential to be a great center then you still take Pouncey.
     
  32. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He said something along the lines of he didn't think so at this point or something like that. I doubt it's their primary option, but I think it's quite possible they end up there.

    How are athletic ability and physical ability anything but the same thing? If you've got the [insert here] ability to play Tackle at as high a level as Carey is, you can play guard well too. And you've actually got no idea what the deal is with Carey's knees, and unless you're a specific little birdie you're essentially making it up.
     
  33. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I'm confident the OL issues could be solved with a decent pulling guard. We don't lack quality players, but that one role remains unfilled.
     
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  34. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    we need a day-one starting center, then two guards that can compete
     
  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    he is not allowed to.
     
  36. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Why not? Will Jerry's parents sue the team? :dunno:
     
  37. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Lets rephrase it to suit your needs. Athletic ability vs physical capability. Does that dwell with in the realm of your understanding when its re-phrased ? Carey no longer has the physical ability to successfully move well. And, if you think he had it last season, well, no comment there. as far as little birdies go, please, better have tried the fishing and returned to the slip with empty coollers. Is Carey still serviceable ? Absolutely. Can Carey bang it head to head at the guard position for an entire season ? Absolutely not. again, it was my pleasure.
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    coaches are not allowed to communicate with the team during the lockout. Miami already got fined for communication to Henne
     
  39. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    In terms of pass protection, theres not really any evidence that Carey couldn't move well.

    He gave up a QB pressure less than 3% of the snaps he played, which is pretty good, and lower than guys like Phil Loadholt, David Stewart, Sebastian Vollmer, and others. He gave up a QB sack or a QB hit less than 1% of the snaps he played, which puts him in the top 15 of all NFL tackles.
     
  40. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I was just joshin with ya, Dupree. lol.
     

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