Grier and Flores should be commended on this draft

"Nappy Roots wrote:

This is just false narrative. A lot of people thought highly of Carroo. He busted, badly. Theres no two ways about it. But he wasn't going to be a late pick, much less UDFA.

Caroo was definitely not worth giving up two picks to trade up and get him. That was one of the most boneheaded moves the dolphins have pulled lately. But I wouldn't completely fault Grier because tbaum was the one in charge then. I do fault Grier more for the Charles harris pick because he was GM and the main man in charge of the draft in 2017 when they picked harris. He specifically came out and said they targeted Harris, really makes me doubt his talent evaluation skills if he really thought that highly of Harris. If you look at our drafts lately we have gotten the easy picks like tunsil and minkah right, and we have hit on a few gems like howard, but overall we have not done a very good job of drafting and that falls largely on Grier.

"hitman8 wrote:

Caroo was definitely not worth giving up two picks to trade up and get him. That was one of the most boneheaded moves the dolphins have pulled lately. But I wouldn't completely fault Grier because tbaum was the one in charge then. I do fault Grier more for the Charles harris pick because he was GM and the main man in charge of the draft in 2017 when they picked harris. He specifically came out and said they targeted Harris, really makes me doubt his talent evaluation skills if he really thought that highly of Harris. If you look at our drafts lately we have gotten the easy picks like tunsil and minkah right, and we have hit on a few gems like howard, but overall we have not done a very good job of drafting and that falls largely on Grier.

I disagree with this statement. Overall our drafts have been pretty good.

Our free agent pickups have been terrible. Absolutely terrible.

"hitman8 wrote:

Caroo was definitely not worth giving up two picks to trade up and get him. That was one of the most boneheaded moves the dolphins have pulled lately. But I wouldn't completely fault Grier because tbaum was the one in charge then. I do fault Grier more for the Charles harris pick because he was GM and the main man in charge of the draft in 2017 when they picked harris. He specifically came out and said they targeted Harris, really makes me doubt his talent evaluation skills if he really thought that highly of Harris. If you look at our drafts lately we have gotten the easy picks like tunsil and minkah right, and we have hit on a few gems like howard, but overall we have not done a very good job of drafting and that falls largely on Grier.

Listen... You can find a bad eval from a guy running every team. Just...relax. Harris hasn't worked out as expected, up to this point...but it's not like he's bad either.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

I disagree with this statement. Overall our drafts have been pretty good.

Our free agent pickups have been terrible. Absolutely terrible.

I agree completely. I'd argue that our drafting over the last 3 or 4 years has been actually pretty darn good. No team hits on all their draft picks, ever. If that is the standard that Grier and company is going to be held to that's unrealistic. That should be the goal everytime they do draft but it's not going to happen.

Another thing this is the 1st draft that Grier has really been in charge. Previously he was one of 3 voices. Let's see what he does and evaluate him from THIS draft forward. It's only from now on that we can be 100% certain that these are his picks.

"Tin Indian wrote:

I agree completely. I'd argue that our drafting over the last 3 or 4 years has been actually pretty darn good. No team hits on all their draft picks, ever. If that is the standard that Grier and company is going to be held to that's unrealistic. That should be the goal everytime they do draft but it's not going to happen.

Another thing this is the 1st draft that Grier has really been in charge. Previously he was one of 3 voices. Let's see what he does and evaluate him from THIS draft forward. It's only from now on that we can be 100% certain that these are his picks.

Our drafts over the last 4 years have been mixed, but you are right we can't judge Grier yet because he wasn't completely in charge until this year. I give this year's draft a C+ to B- preliminary grade because we reached on a couple of players and left better players on the board imo. However we can't really judge until we see how the players pan out. If Rosen works out this draft will automatically get an A.

I think Rosen ends up a bust (as a starter). maybe he becomes a reliable backup. But, even if he's a bust, I'm fine with this draft - if Wilkens lives up to being a long time starter and Dieter is a starter. hopefully the other draft picks become at least solid rotational players in the lineup. you can't rebuild Rome in a year after burning it down

"hitman8 wrote:

Our drafts over the last 4 years have been mixed, but you are right we can't judge Grier yet because he wasn't completely in charge until this year. I give this year's draft a C+ to B- preliminary grade because we reached on a couple of players and left better players on the board imo. However we can't really judge until we see how the players pan out. If Rosen works out this draft will automatically get an A.

Considering we really didn't have a whole lot to work with I thought they did a decent job. The icing on the cake for me would have been if they could have jumped ahead of the Patriots in round 3 to grab Winovich, but maybe they really wanted Dieter because of his versatility. Or, maybe they tried, but had no suiters. Anyway, it is what it is. I hope we find some gems.

"hitman8 wrote:

Cajuste plays left tackle but has also played right tackle. Jesse Davis is our starting right guard right now. He does a good job there. He has never started any game at right tackle.

Coming into the draft we had needs as RT, LG and C. We addressed LG with Dieter in the 3rd and RT with Isaiah Prince in the Sixth.

That is wrong. Davis started two games at RT in 2017, after James got hurt. He also played part of the game at RT where James was injured. When Bushrod got hurt, they needed to move him inside and use Sam Young at RT. Davis is a natural OT, and he looked better playing there. He is mediocre, but not good, at RG. You can get by with him if he is your 5th best OL. Usually, when one of the OL completely whiffed in pass pro last year, it was Davis.

"Patster1969 wrote:

Is Cajuste more of a OT or G? I'm wondering if they went with Dieter, as they wanted a LG as they feel that Jesse Davis is better suited as a Tackle, thereby improving two spots instead of leaving Davis as a LG? Don't know enough about either tbh

Davis was the RG. The LG most of last season was Larsen. Davis is better suited for RT, compared to RG. Deiter potentially fills a huge hole at LG, which is where played most at Wisconsin. Chris Reed, the UFA we signed from Jax, may be able to fill RG, if Davis is moved outside.

"resnor wrote:

Listen... You can find a bad eval from a guy running every team. Just...relax. Harris hasn't worked out as expected, up to this point...but it's not like he's bad either.

I think good GMs miss of course, perhaps mostly based on personality conflicts, lack of dedication, miss-read on the character, but then there are some misses that are based on football relative to their position, and some of those misses are so evident it makes you lose trust..

For example, I think Kyler Murray is about as easy as it gets..but some are adamant that he’s going to bust on the football field...If he plays like I expect he’ll play, I will not be able to trust the person that stated that he would fail, and Vise versa.

I have a hard time trusting Grier for the Tannehill extension Mahomes Passover.

But I think Gase was calling the shots, and we know that guy is about as bad as it gets in the personnel evaluating Dept.

"MrClean wrote:

Davis was the RG. The LG most of last season was Larsen. Davis is better suited for RT, compared to RG. Deiter potentially fills a huge hole at LG, which is where played most at Wisconsin. Chris Reed, the UFA we signed from Jax, may be able to fill RG, if Davis is moved outside.

That is what I thought - sure I read somewhere that Reed is better at RG, which makes sense for the pick of Dieter, if his best position is LG. Had seen Travis's breakdown of Davis at RT and he was complimentary of the small sample size on tape.

What I haven’t liked about our drafts under T-Baum is that we were drafting like we were already a dynasty. We took guys like a Parker, Carroo and Harris while thinking we could get by with cardbaod cutouts of players in the interior OL and LB positions in particular.

At least this draft had no picks leaving us wondering why the FO would draft someone at that position.

"djphinfan wrote:

I think good GMs miss of course, perhaps mostly based on personality conflicts, lack of dedication, miss-read on the character, but then there are some misses that are based on football relative to their position, and some of those misses are so evident it makes you lose trust..

For example, I think Kyler Murray is about as easy as it gets..but some are adamant that he’s going to bust on the football field...If he plays like I expect he’ll play, I will not be able to trust the person that stated that he would fail, and Vise versa.

I have a hard time trusting Grier for the Tannehill extension Mahomes Passover.

But I think Gase was calling the shots, and we know that guy is about as bad as it gets in the personnel evaluating Dept.

Murray allegedly did horrible in interviews from what I heard and was really unimpressive in his work on the board.

That is my #1 concern with him, do you not find those types of concerns valid? The onl team that allegedly said he did well was Arizona...big surprise there.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

Murray allegedly did horrible in interviews from what I heard and was really unimpressive in his work on the board.

That is my #1 concern with him, do you not find those types of concerns valid? The onl team that allegedly said he did well was Arizona...big surprise there.

There are many QBs studious enough
to break down a chalk board, Ryan Tannehill, but when they drop the have a compartmentalized vision of the field.

Other than that the research I did on him showed to be a different player intellectually.

I do admit this is a unique personality, he’s more of an assassin type rather than your rah rah guy.

The Bottom line is the talent is special, like really special in a dual threat way..He simply can beat you so many ways I think it’s going to translate.

I’ll start with ROTY.

"djphinfan wrote:

There are many QBs studious enough
to break down a chalk board, Ryan Tannehill, but when they drop the have a compartmentalized vision of the field.

Other than that the research I did on him showed to be a different player intellectually.

I do admit this is a unique personality, he’s more of an assassin type rather than your rah rah guy.

The Bottom line is the talent is special, like really special in a dual threat way..He simply can beat you so many ways I think it’s going to translate.

I’ll start with ROTT..

Well I'm not even saying the reports are accurate, but I'd argue that while being good with it doesnt equal success...being bad with it is certainly damning IMO.

I dont have physical questions about him, but I do question his passion for Football and his ability to pick up advanced concepts.

I see him as a guy who may have initial success but if the reports are true he may struggle when the tape comes out.

That said idk if he really was THAT BAD, just saying I do think that is major reason to pause.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

Well I'm not even saying the reports are accurate, but I'd argue that while being good with it doesnt equal success...being bad with it is certainly damning IMO.

I dont have physical questions about him, but I do question his passion for Football and his ability to pick up advanced concepts.

I see him as a guy who may have initial success but if the reports are true he may struggle when the tape comes out.

That said idk if he really was THAT BAD, just saying I do think that is major reason to pause.

What evidence is there that he isn't passionate about football? This isn't an out of shape player. This isn't a player that doesnt give his all on the football field. There is 0 evidence to say he doesn't love football and plenty to say he does.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

Well I'm not even saying the reports are accurate, but I'd argue that while being good with it doesnt equal success...being bad with it is certainly damning IMO.

I dont have physical questions about him, but I do question his passion for Football and his ability to pick up advanced concepts.

I see him as a guy who may have initial success but if the reports are true he may struggle when the tape comes out.

That said idk if he really was THAT BAD, just saying I do think that is major reason to pause.

Yeah I have some of the same concerns about him playing baseball, however that’s a different question...whole different topic..

"djphinfan wrote:

Yeah I have some of the same concerns about him playing baseball, however that’s a different question...whole different topic..

Yeah I agree, I'm just glad you know where I'm coming from.

I wish the kid the best though. He doesnt seem like a bad dude at all and I'm not hoping for him to fail or anything. Just some small reservations like I said.

I am not saying that Murray will bust in the NFL or that he won't be special, but this game does give me some pause.
Alabama is the closet thing to an NFL caliber D in college football and they made Kyler look kind of average at best here. This is more like what he will be facing in the NFL. He didn't even really do much until the end of the third quarter. I was just curious to see what you all think.

"Sceeto wrote:

I am not saying that Murray will bust in the NFL or that he won't be special, but this game does give me some pause.
Alabama is the closet thing to an NFL caliber D in college football and they made Kyler look kind of average at best here. This is more like what he will be facing in the NFL. He didn't even really do much until the end of the third quarter. I was just curious to see what you all think.

Kyler Murray is the type of player imo that just needs to feel the speed of the game, adjust his personal clock and then it’s game him thereafter..

I’m not gonna put a whole lot on him for taking a bit to adjust in the early portion of that game..

I believe this is a special qb, the totality of his skills, the explosive nature of his athleticism and its parts, including his accurate arm, I think once he feels the speed, I’m not sure he can be stopped..