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Grier and Flores should be commended on this draft

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Apr 27, 2019.

  1. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    listen before anyone starts *****ing take a second to remember what we are trying to do. We jettisoned a lot of high priced talent in the offseason and brought in very little talent as far as free agency goes so I am aware we have tons of positions that need addressed. Regardless of what happened in the draft we were NEVER going to fill all this positions of need and were told a ton of URFA were going to be signed.

    That said with very limited ammo Grier and Flores pulled together a very good draft IMHO. We got a STUD defensive lineman, and a possible franchise quarterback at a ridiculous low price point and another draft pick in the process.

    We were able to draft a potential starter in dieter who’s can play multiple positions in the line probably guard with some real beef! 6.5 310

    A promissory g tackle a LB who will fight for some reps in his rookie year, and a Good RB from Wisconsin and a freaking fullback lol we going old school run the ball boyz!!!

    We’re loaded for next years draft and I’m sure we will sign some player during training camp that are cut, we got lots of work to do but a big SOLID B+ from me on this draft!

    GO FINS!!!

    I expect us to win 5 games this year I’m on the record
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  2. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    People are salty we didnt take "Their guy" at whatever pick but in the end if Rosen is the guy that will make this draft an A+++++ on its own.
     
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  3. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    Given all the circumstances I agree. I heard Grier say they hoped to land 3 starters going into the draft and if Rosen wins the starting job they did just that. If one or two of the late round guys and a UDFA or two come through, and they always seem to lately, we could look back on this as a hugely successful draft. On top of that they have put themselves in a tremendous position for he draft next year.

    As with all drafts you won't know for a couple years how they really did but at this point I'm pleased.
     
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  4. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It'll be a crucible this year for all these low-rounders and UDFAs, which is good/bad. We really need to do some damage next free agency and draft though, and we need to do it wisely and with reservation.
     
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  5. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    If Rosen isn't starting by week 3 then it was a waste of a pick. He was brought in to be evaluated, and quickly. We need as close to a full season's work as possible to get a good read.

    Personally not a fan of the Rosen move or the job done this year, but I could as easily be wrong as right - especially if either of those linemen turn into league average starters, let alone both. I think Prince has a good shot to be a starter sooner rather than later, and for god's sake how long have we needed guards?
     
  6. Absolutely was a good draft. Once uneducated fin fans start to read something more than Omar, Armando, and Barry...they realize that the vast majority of the national media and punditry loved what we did this weekend. The consensus is that we got a steal in Rosen and we made some quality picks of fat, mean, productive core guys. we have plenty of time to evaluate ROsen, there is no rush. No one next year is a sure thing and Tua will be further found out this year. We will have options next year, we will have options to make a play for the true crown jewel Lawrence in two years if Rosen can't get it together. Plenty of time, plenty of options, it is a great day to be a Dolphins fan, and that is something I haven't felt for at least 15 years. Finally taking some risk,finally stripping it down, Fitz and Rosen are going to be a hoot to watch this year, we already know we have a huge stockpile of ammo in next years draft.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2019
  7. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    Time will tell. Go Dolphins!
     
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  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    When we kept Grier on board and gave him all of the FO power, rather than looking outside of the building, I wasn't excited. I saw him as part of the problem, given how long he'd been a part of the team.

    However, I've been very happy with most of what he's done since then and what seems to be his long term vision for the club. The team is in an extremely favorable position in 2020 both with draft picks in cap space, and will be one of the clubs that controls the 2020 offseason in both regards.

    I love that he resigned DeVante Parker to a fair contract and gave him a chance to prove himself with the new staff, and holy cow I could not be more happy about how everything went down with getting our QB of the future in Rosen.

    I am happier with Grier than I have with our GM/Lead personel man in a long, long time. He still needs to keep it going, but so far so good. We need to now look at extending both Tunsil and Howard to long term deals, and I would really like to extend Drake as well. He's not only a talent, but he's a very smart, good guy, and only 25. I want him to be a leader and a part of the future.

    Flores is mostly a blank slate, but I'm happy that he's been on board with what Grier has wanted to do. He'll get his chance soon.
     
  9. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't flashy, but it has potential.
     
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  10. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    That is a very big if, and we should not have given up two picks to get him. I like that Grier has set us p to have multiple picks next year, and I loved our first round pick this year. However I continue to have issue with how we evaluate talent and make picks. We way over reached for Dieter and Van ginkell. Picking them about two rounds earlier than projected while leaving better prospects on the board.

    Grier was largely in charge of scouting and drafting for several years now, and he was the main man in charge of the draft last couple of years eventhough he didn't have final say. He is the one who tageted Charles harris in 2017 for example so his talent evaluation skills are really suspect to me at this point.

    I am still hopeful for next year with all the picks we have so far and probably more to come though.
     
  11. Almost everything you said is incorrect, but because no one has time to fix you....just FYI, Dieter would not have been available "two rounds after" we picked him. And in no way did we "overeach" for him. He was drafted just about where expected, perhaps Actually a little later. CBSsports, Walterfootball, NFL.com, EliteAnalytics, etc ALL have him with a 2nd round to 3rd round grade, with most trending toward the 3rd. To suggest he would have made it to the 5th round is cretin poison that needs to be eradicated. Just because you might not have picked him as an amateur couch-farter, doesn't mean that is what actual professional men would have done. Dieter was a good pick, a solid player, with some weaknesses like anyone in the 3rd round has, but who will likely be on this roster for 4-5 years. No reason to just make up gibberish to support an already cockeyed point of view.
     
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  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're just flatly wrong about Dieter, in fact you can find sources which have him higher than the Dolphins took him- The Draft Network has him as their 38th best prospect on their board:

    https://thedraftnetwork.com/prospect-rankings

    As for Van Ginkel(and in defensive prospects in general) the Dolphins are almost certainly going to consistently have different draft boards than most of the rest of the league. For a bunch of teams in the league, Van Ginkel is going to be pretty useless- he's too soft to be an every down edge defender, and has no experience with run fits on interior gaps or the run/pass binds that players there are put in. However, for those handful of teams that can use a guy who is somewhere between a 3-4 OLB and true linebacker(Dolphins, Lions, Patriots, Steelers), Van Ginkel and guys like that are more valuable. He's a good late-round candidate to be developed as a Jamie Collins type player.

    People chalk the Patriots picking guys that don't match conventional value up to Bill Belichick being a wizard, but at the end of the day there are very real functional needs that must be met, and you're almost certainly going to see the Dolphins make some of those types of decisions as well.
     
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  13. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You said almost everything I said was incorrect, and then go on to focus on just the Dieter pick which was actually the only thing I said which was somewhat innacurate. I was actually referring more to the van ginkell pick in terms of reaching, but there were multiple boards who had Dieter as a 4th or 5th rounder also. I will give you the point though you are correct several boards also had him as a 3rd rounder. I just don't think he is a better prospect than Cajuste for example who was available and went to New England a few picks later. Deiter is a good run blocker but he has some serious athletic limitations and his pass blocking is very lacking compared to a guy like Cajuste.

    Van ginkell on the other hand was a real reach. A guy like Charles Omenihu or Joe Jackson in the fifth would have been a much higher value and higher cieling pick than van ginkell.
     
  14. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    This draft is going to hinge on Rosen. Whether 1. he is a franchise guy, or 2. this front office can move on next year if he doesnt show it this year and take another QB. If either one of those two are true, I think we had a good draft.
     
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  15. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Don't think you need to worry about that. If history has shown us anything it's that Fitzpatrick will play himself out of a job by week 5
     
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  16. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Is Cajuste more of a OT or G? I'm wondering if they went with Dieter, as they wanted a LG as they feel that Jesse Davis is better suited as a Tackle, thereby improving two spots instead of leaving Davis as a LG? Don't know enough about either tbh
     
  17. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I honestly think you want Rosen to outright win the job. If its true there are "no starters" as of now ge will have his chance.

    Obviously Fitz has experience but Rosen should have him in just about every other category...
     
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  18. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    There was a Barnwell piece on ESPN saying he wouldn't be surprised if Fitz is traded by the start of the season. I wouldn't either.

    I want Rosen in asap and playing. I want him to either prove he is the man, or else we need to go back to the well in 2020.
     
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  19. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Cajuste plays left tackle but has also played right tackle. Jesse Davis is our starting right guard right now. He does a good job there. He has never started any game at right tackle.

    Coming into the draft we had needs as RT, LG and C. We addressed LG with Dieter in the 3rd and RT with Isaiah Prince in the Sixth.
     
  20. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    The best case scenario is Rosen comes on board in Miami and is a stud/hero type guy. That's in the teams best interest because 1) it ends the search and 2) it frees up the resources in next years draft.

    So that's what I'm hoping and it's not being optimistic but rather, pragmatic.
     
  21. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That makes sense, although I think that Davis must have played at RT a few times, as Travis on LOD had some film of him there (which he was complimentary about) - likely to be preseason though. Certainly didn't seem to be as good last year at RG, although possibly because we also had nothing at C & RG. Think Read is pencilled in at RG as well
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It's impossible to judge a draft before folks take the field, but I think it really all comes down to Rosen and the linemen we snagged. If Rosen does develop then it was the draft of the decade. I'll reserve judgement for another six months though.
     
  23. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    i'm salty grier picked charles harris and he moved up to take caroo in the 3rd round, could of gotten him as UDFA.
     
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  24. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I thought Fitzpatrick would play this season and eventually Miami would go to a late round drafted rookie around week 6-7. Now, if Fitzpatrick is the starter week 1 with Rosen here, a top 10 pick with a year experience, it will be a massive disappointment.

    I do think Fitzpatrick gets traded, there is absolutely no need for him here now. Zero.
     
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  25. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    This is just false narrative. A lot of people thought highly of Carroo. He busted, badly. Theres no two ways about it. But he wasn't going to be a late pick, much less UDFA.
     
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  26. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Caroo was definitely not worth giving up two picks to trade up and get him. That was one of the most boneheaded moves the dolphins have pulled lately. But I wouldn't completely fault Grier because tbaum was the one in charge then. I do fault Grier more for the Charles harris pick because he was GM and the main man in charge of the draft in 2017 when they picked harris. He specifically came out and said they targeted Harris, really makes me doubt his talent evaluation skills if he really thought that highly of Harris. If you look at our drafts lately we have gotten the easy picks like tunsil and minkah right, and we have hit on a few gems like howard, but overall we have not done a very good job of drafting and that falls largely on Grier.
     
  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I disagree with this statement. Overall our drafts have been pretty good.

    Our free agent pickups have been terrible. Absolutely terrible.
     
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  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Listen... You can find a bad eval from a guy running every team. Just...relax. Harris hasn't worked out as expected, up to this point...but it's not like he's bad either.
     
  29. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    I agree completely. I'd argue that our drafting over the last 3 or 4 years has been actually pretty darn good. No team hits on all their draft picks, ever. If that is the standard that Grier and company is going to be held to that's unrealistic. That should be the goal everytime they do draft but it's not going to happen.

    Another thing this is the 1st draft that Grier has really been in charge. Previously he was one of 3 voices. Let's see what he does and evaluate him from THIS draft forward. It's only from now on that we can be 100% certain that these are his picks.
     
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  30. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Our drafts over the last 4 years have been mixed, but you are right we can't judge Grier yet because he wasn't completely in charge until this year. I give this year's draft a C+ to B- preliminary grade because we reached on a couple of players and left better players on the board imo. However we can't really judge until we see how the players pan out. If Rosen works out this draft will automatically get an A.
     
  31. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    I think Rosen ends up a bust (as a starter). maybe he becomes a reliable backup. But, even if he's a bust, I'm fine with this draft - if Wilkens lives up to being a long time starter and Dieter is a starter. hopefully the other draft picks become at least solid rotational players in the lineup. you can't rebuild Rome in a year after burning it down
     
  32. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    Considering we really didn't have a whole lot to work with I thought they did a decent job. The icing on the cake for me would have been if they could have jumped ahead of the Patriots in round 3 to grab Winovich, but maybe they really wanted Dieter because of his versatility. Or, maybe they tried, but had no suiters. Anyway, it is what it is. I hope we find some gems.
     
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  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That is wrong. Davis started two games at RT in 2017, after James got hurt. He also played part of the game at RT where James was injured. When Bushrod got hurt, they needed to move him inside and use Sam Young at RT. Davis is a natural OT, and he looked better playing there. He is mediocre, but not good, at RG. You can get by with him if he is your 5th best OL. Usually, when one of the OL completely whiffed in pass pro last year, it was Davis.
     
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  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Davis was the RG. The LG most of last season was Larsen. Davis is better suited for RT, compared to RG. Deiter potentially fills a huge hole at LG, which is where played most at Wisconsin. Chris Reed, the UFA we signed from Jax, may be able to fill RG, if Davis is moved outside.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think good GMs miss of course, perhaps mostly based on personality conflicts, lack of dedication, miss-read on the character, but then there are some misses that are based on football relative to their position, and some of those misses are so evident it makes you lose trust..

    For example, I think Kyler Murray is about as easy as it gets..but some are adamant that he’s going to bust on the football field...If he plays like I expect he’ll play, I will not be able to trust the person that stated that he would fail, and Vise versa.

    I have a hard time trusting Grier for the Tannehill extension Mahomes Passover.

    But I think Gase was calling the shots, and we know that guy is about as bad as it gets in the personnel evaluating Dept.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
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  36. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That is what I thought - sure I read somewhere that Reed is better at RG, which makes sense for the pick of Dieter, if his best position is LG. Had seen Travis's breakdown of Davis at RT and he was complimentary of the small sample size on tape.
     
  37. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    What I haven’t liked about our drafts under T-Baum is that we were drafting like we were already a dynasty. We took guys like a Parker, Carroo and Harris while thinking we could get by with cardbaod cutouts of players in the interior OL and LB positions in particular.

    At least this draft had no picks leaving us wondering why the FO would draft someone at that position.
     
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  38. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Murray allegedly did horrible in interviews from what I heard and was really unimpressive in his work on the board.

    That is my #1 concern with him, do you not find those types of concerns valid? The onl team that allegedly said he did well was Arizona...big surprise there.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There are many QBs studious enough
    to break down a chalk board, Ryan Tannehill, but when they drop the have a compartmentalized vision of the field.

    Other than that the research I did on him showed to be a different player intellectually.

    I do admit this is a unique personality, he’s more of an assassin type rather than your rah rah guy.

    The Bottom line is the talent is special, like really special in a dual threat way..He simply can beat you so many ways I think it’s going to translate.

    I’ll start with ROTY.
     
  40. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm not even saying the reports are accurate, but I'd argue that while being good with it doesnt equal success...being bad with it is certainly damning IMO.

    I dont have physical questions about him, but I do question his passion for Football and his ability to pick up advanced concepts.

    I see him as a guy who may have initial success but if the reports are true he may struggle when the tape comes out.

    That said idk if he really was THAT BAD, just saying I do think that is major reason to pause.
     
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