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Good read/info on Team Draft Picks

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LikeUntoGod, Nov 23, 2007.

  1. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    This breaks it down pretty well and shows what we hope is changed in the Dolphin front office. Which is simply drafting players good enough to make the team.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-1123doldraft,0,3353088.story

    Our last draft was easily our best draft in maybe 6-7 years or more. I think we all have to agree with that now right? OK, some will say "we do not know yet about John Beck". Well, we will see in the next several weeks about him. But I think he will be a player in the NFL.

    So the question now is, having perhaps the the number one or two pick in each round, plus a 2nd from the Chargers, can Muller and Cameron find 4-6 more starters?

    I think again that now we also all agree on building though the draft and not with free agents or player we trade for. If we ever trade for another QB in the next few years I'm going to :eek:

    Being a known "Ricky Lover" I have to hope that he will change the bad karma which has been over our team like a dark cloud. We are due a flood of balls and calls going our way.

    One last link will tell you about the official Steeler line on our game Monday night. The old "we are not overlooking anyone anymore" statement. The truth is that they want to kill us. This will be outside of the Patriots game our hardest game of the year. We are going to learn a lot about both Jason Allen and John Beck Monday night.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/616/story/317734.html

    I'm looking for forward to this game. Think about it, John Beck starting, Ginn scoring on returns and catching passes. Ricky Williams maybe playing. On almost every cable/Sat system so most everyone can see it.

    This is our chance to make up for that game in London. Here is where we stand up
     
  2. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    Nice read! Thanks bro
     
  3. Finfang

    Finfang New Member

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    The article really puts things in perspective for why we are in the shape we are in.

    Jimmy Johnson missed on some players and definitely made some bad decisions but the real damage came during the Wannstedt tenure. When the scout talks about pushing for Brees and then said the coach does the drafting. Dave took Fletcher. Just ask the Chicago Bears it took them years to get back after Wanny put them on their ear. I'm glad now we have a true GM. This season we had a good draft (5 rookie starters now) and with the picks we will have in the 2008 draft we should be able to put together a solid young nucleus for the future. I hate losing but sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you change the way things are handled. Whether in life or in football.

    Thanks for posting LUG!
     
  4. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    This past draft is easily our best in years. We still haven't seen everything that Ginn has to offer, but he gives us alot of hope for the future. Penalties have really hurt him on ST's, but it's not that he hasn't been producing when given the chance. Miami just doesn't have the ST's that a team like Chicago has and Ginn has been worked into the offense slowly. Beck's numbers on Sunday were not what alot of fans probably wanted to see, but he showed that he was making good decisions out there and not letting the game get away from him. I'm looking for improvement from week to week, big numbers are great but not neccesary at this point. Satele has been a huge reason for the OL success, I really think he is going to be around for a while. OL was supposed to be the Phins weakest area, now it's probably our strongest. Just those 3 players make this draft a winner IMO, that doesn't even include Mauia, and the future contributions of Booker, Soliai and the rest.

    The sad thing about our past drafts has to be this fact:

    Forget who we could have had (Boldin, Brees, Moss), forget the fact that we have wasted so many picks in trades that haven't worked out, the fact that we don't have any of those drafted players on the team has to be alarming to any Dolphin fan. I think that Cam and Randy have a pretty good handle on drafting, I doubt we will have another one of those dry spells with them.

    Speaking of the draft, I really think that the Phins should try to trade down to acquire more picks, I also think that it would be wise to trade JT as well. By the time the Dolphins are ready to contend, JT will be too old to contribute or out of the league entirely. Maximize your assets!

    As a known "Ricky hater" I have to disagree. ;)

    I've had more than enough of the Ricky saga and I just want it to end. I don't think that he will ever reach the same level that he once enjoyed and I doubt that he can rebuild his value for a trade, like most fans talk about. Even if Ricky came back against Pitt and had a great finish to the season, I think that teams are going to be wary of giving anything of value up for a guy that just can't be trusted to stay clean. It's been 5 failed tests already, you can't trust him IMO.
     
  5. njfinfan

    njfinfan The First Lady

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    Good information - good to see you Mike. How are you?
     
  6. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Thanks Mary

    I'm doing good, had a nice day with the family on Wednesday (my birthday) and yesterday. I hope your Thanksgiving went well. :)
     
  7. lockout2

    lockout2 Guest

    Wow, great article, I agree with alot, especially about Ginn. But yeah, I cant wait to see if Ricky can help us turn it around alittle for the rest of the season. But I hope we dont all put our dying hopes on him to pull a miracle like we did with Beck, and then dog him if hes not 100% or doesnt bring us the "golden win" on monday,
     
  8. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    It was a better draft than we had under Wannstedt, but I think it might not be enough to save Cam and Mueller if we do go 0-16.
     
  9. njfinfan

    njfinfan The First Lady

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    Happy Birthday and Happy Thanksgiving. Glad you had a good one. Mine was wonderful as well.
     
  10. njfinfan

    njfinfan The First Lady

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    Agree too Carrie. How are you feeling btw?
     
  11. lockout2

    lockout2 Guest

    hey NJ..just taking it bit by bit. getting stronger every day. thanks for askin. Gonna come back from all this BETTER than the bionic woman!! LOL hope ur holiday was a good one
     
  12. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Cam and Randy will get a pass for this season because nobody could have forseen the fall of our defense.

    Going into the offseason last year, offense was the major concern. Sure there were some grumblings about the D being another year older, but for the most psrt everybody thought that our 4th ranked D would be a strength, especially with the addition of Porter. Because of age, lack of depth and injuries, the defense is awful. So Cam and Randy get at least another year to turn things around.

    Also, be thankful that we had this disasterous season. Without it, the Phins would still be trying to put patches on a damaged product. Now they are forced to rebuild things the right way instead of looking for a quick fix to everything. It's tough, but things will get better.

    Hope all is well with the recovery

    Thanks Mary, glad to hear it.
     
  13. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    Happy B-day Mikey! Glad it was a good day for you.
     
  14. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    Losing K Carter and David Bowens hurt us, that is one reason I'd take a DE (Chris Long) as well as DT (Dorsey) with our first pick. Last year we had a 8 man rotation on the DL. I still say we are not using JT or JP the right way. Both should be moved back to the weakside.

    Very good point about our season being so bad, that it will help us make the right decisions. We will not look for that one free agent to "take us to the SB" etc. We can only go up from here and if it goes 1-15, 8-8, 10-6, 15-4 etc as we build though the draft then I'm all good.
     
  15. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Thanks Marty, I appreciate it.

    How was your turkey day?
     
  16. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Let me first preface this by saying that I didn't watch a minute of college ball until a couple of weeks ago.

    Every year around playoff time I start searching the draft boards/sites looking for info on players, their abilities, their limitations, where they might be selected and match that up with the FA class and Miami's needs. Well, needless to say I started early this year for obvious reasons. :( The more I read on Dorsey the less convinced I am that Miami should take him. Sure he is a great college player and dominates the competition, but can he do that at the next level? Some sites have him listed over 300 pounds and some sites have him at 280, if he's closer to 280.....is he a legit #1 pick? Will he fill the need in the middle if he needs to be kicked to the outside when we play in a 3/4?

    I've been talking with a few other Dolfans about the possiblity of signing a DT through FA and then trading down (always tough on draft day). If we get the #1 overall pick, which seems likely, might we find a trade partner with a team like the Cowboys? Should we trade down to acquire more picks that can possibly speed up the rebuilding? I think it should be considered.

    So tell me, does anyone have opinions on any of these college players?

    Vernon Gholston (might be able to fill a JT role at DE/LB)
    Aqib Talib
    Limas Sweed (if he slips in the draft, more pressing needs than WR)
    Jonathan Goff
    Shawne Crable (supposed to be a great ST's player as well as stopping the play in the backfield)
    Heath Benedict
    Dwight Lowery
    Darnell Terrell

    Any thoughts (other than I'm an idiot ;) )?

    Agreed, I just want to see imporvement, even if it seems like baby steps at the time. This season would be a good example of that, for all the things that have gone wrong, there have been some bright spots that we have to look forward to.
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ricky Williams may be able to get us one win this season, for that reason alone I'd let him play.

    For me, the interesting question about the Draft is Jason Allen, has he improved enough to play as a starter next season? If not take a CB/Safety type with our #2 (actually a #1), we may take one anyway.

    Quietly JA has three turnovers in the last two games, he will hit people as well.

    As far as Dorsey, run, don't walk away from that player, I've watched him in three games this season and every game he is "injured" only to come back into the game later IMO he is taking a blow (a breather) on the sidelines, and even then he doesn't make any plays, I've yet to see him split a double team, and I've yet to see him go inside out on a running play, and i've yet to see him make any plays at all actually, not one run stuff as of yet.

    He reminds me of Ken Sims of Patriot infamy.

    I would almost rather completely rebuild the secondary with our first three picks or get a new D-line with picks 2-2-3 or a TE that can get deep or a playmaking linebacker.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2007
  18. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    Happy Birthday, Mike :)
     
  19. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Thanks :D

    One year away from 30 :rolleyes: :eek:
     
  20. FINintheMOON

    FINintheMOON Moderator Luxury Box

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    I am going to agree with you here padre... We definitely need to stay away from Dorsey. This guy will never make it in the NFL.
     
  21. FINintheMOON

    FINintheMOON Moderator Luxury Box

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    BTW, I agree with you too LIKE... Forgot to mention you in my last post...
     
  22. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

  23. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I disagree. There is no excuse for going winless. If it happens, Huizenga will fire someone.
     
  24. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    then i think he should start with himself. this team is a wreck! and it didn't happen over night. this regime needs time to REBUILD!
     
  25. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Well, I agree...it was his poor judgement that led to hiring Wanny, Spieman, et al...
    But since he won't fire himself by selling the team, he'll have to throw the fans a bone and that bone will likely be Cameron.
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The only team in the NFL to go winless didn't fire their head coach.

    As much as I hate to admit it, someone more then likely will be fired if we go 0-16.

    And I like Cam and Randy, if Capers being canned is enough it wouldn't bother me if he left at all.

    Randy just pulled off the best draft we have had in 7 years, he should stay, we need him to stay put.
     
  27. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    We need IMO DE's over DT's. And I've seen Dorsey play about 6 times, he often seems hurt and rarely makes any plays, A Gator freshman OLman handled him, CBS sports made a video clip of it. I hope we would not draft him and he stays hurt all the time. His backs, knees, ankes etc worry me.

    Matt Roth is not a starting strongside DE. We need to draft one. And if we can we need to draft a pass rushing DE. We are playing Holiday and Wright, who are both DT's, as DE's right now. One thing that lowers is overall DL speed.

    I hope we draft the biggest fastest DE in the draft. If there is a DT faster then we draft him but we need speed and size.

    I think we have 3 big needs on defense. DL, LB and DB. I normally say we should draft for need which we did last year. But I'd like us to pick BPA of those three. I still think Chris Long could be the best 1st pick but maybe there is a LB or CB that is rated better by the time of the draft and there will be more DE's later on then I'd be OK with that.

    I think you must stop the run first, A new stud LB can surely help in that and help in the passing game but who is the best defensive player period? Long or Dorsey or Laurinaitis? No DB really sticks out.

    I agree at this point of the year with this rating more of less. Although a number of people would put McFaddan first.

    1. Chris Long, DE, Virginia Sr, 6-4, 284
    2. Jake Long, OT, Michigan Sr, 6-7, 313
    3. Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas Jr, 6-2, 205
    4. Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU Sr, 6-2, 299
    5. James Laurinaitis, ILB, Ohio State Jr, 6-3, 244

    But what do we need? a RB? Nope, so we should all hope that a lot of teams want McFadden. He gives us our best shot of moving and getting another pick.

    Here is a link to a draft chart of what it will cost to move up. I could not get one to reprint here. If someone else could that would be cool. This is the same chart on a numbers of sites.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

    So the first pick in the draft is worth 3,000 points. So when people talk about the Cowboys moving up, that will just cost too much. I've seen Mock drafts with the Vikings taking McFadden if we do not. The Patriots will take anyone good. The Rams want Jake Long. The Jet's will take whoever is there at that point, all good players. The Falcons and the Ravens will take QB's, Matt Ryan and Brian Bohrm maybe. I'm not sure about the Bengals and Saints.

    We might just have to take the first pick and use it. Which for us long suffering Fins fans could be horrible. Think about everyone has trashed Ginn being number 9. And Allen for being number 16. And Ronnie for being a number two (in a poor draft year). OMG, are we going to ask a lot of a number one!

    This could be perhaps the 2nd most important draft (after this years) in the new era of the Miami Dolphins. We should have at least 5 starters coming out of this draft. We have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. I do not think Colt Brennen will be there for us in the 4th round but if there is another good QB at about our 4th or 5th pick I'd take him for the future.

    I could go a mix of DT, DE, LB, CB with our first four picks. Two DE's and two LB's. one DL, two LB''s and a CB. A DL, LB, OL and CB.

    Normally I say draft for need at every spot but we have so many holes on defense. We need two defensive lineman, two LB's and at least two DB's. Then I want to look to replace Shelton and look for a TE so if one is there we cannot pass up then I'm OK with it. I would be ok with us trading down and taking someone like Jake Long.

    I think the thing to remember is that I think that Cam and Randy are planning on a team two years from now. They cut back on a lot of old veterans (in fact i do not see why some people still call us old) and freed up some money and got extra picks. If you are old enough it was called doing a "Joe Thomas" and no team has really rebuilt like this since JJ redid the Cowboys.

    They have 24 draft picks and 3 off seasons of picking up FA's to make a winning team. It is a long painful plan. Last years FA list was very small and costly and so will this years due to money added each of the two years to teams caps. I think I read where we had early in the year 35 new players on the team and that would be more now.
     
  28. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    I wont Dog on Beck lockout until next season and then when he really does show he sucks. Right now its quality experience time for Mr Beck so i wont have anyone bashing Beck until we get him playing time and a better supporting cast......oh yes and a D than can stop teams scoring against them on a regular basis. ;-)
     
  29. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    No team stays crud for yrs! Thats why the NFL is so great. They help the weak and bring stability to the lesser teams. We wont be bad for too long. Lets just hope i havnt got false teeth and have a free bus pass and a home that i share with other invalids before i see us win a SuperBowl!.
     
  30. Jagfish

    Jagfish Season Ticket Holder

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    One thing about the draft, I was listening to Bill Parcells and Chris Mortenson last night. They basically said it's getting near impossible to get a team to trade up for the first overall pick. Which I'm guessing we'll have. Maybe some team falls in love w/ Brohm or Mcfadden. But there are 3-4 first rd. Qb's so a team may just wait for Woodson, Brennen, Ryan to fall to them.
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    As I recall, Mueller took McCalister when the Saints already had Ricky, the move was questioned at the time as rickey was a top pick, but time has shown that the move was a wise one.

    And if you were a GM sitting in your office right now, and you asked yourself who would you rather have:

    Mario Williams?

    or

    Reggie Bush?

    The Texans took Williams and so far, he is "okay", the Reggie led Saints have contended in both of his two seasons with the Saints.

    Point being that unless Chris Long or whomever can make an impact day one, it may be wiser to go with the offensive player.

    This year is just not the year of the Defensive player in College, no one has really stood out ala Merryman.
     
  32. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Reggie was not a major factor in the Saints being a play off team. Most pundits agree with that. Brees had a standout yr as did their wideouts and their Defense. Most experts think they overplayed their potential and they did well dont get me wrong but you cant say Reggie Bush was a star when he was the lesser Running back in a team that played above itself.
     
  33. Phinperor

    Phinperor formerly In_Flames Luxury Box

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    I truly believe he can and will. Being from VA I've had the opportunity to watch this kid for quite awhile through out his college career, and simply put Long is a beast and defensive playmaker. I will seriously become ill if the Jets, Pats, or Bills draft him.
     
  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Compared to Mario Williams though?

    Reggie has been far more valuable for the Saints then Williams has been for the Texans.

    This will be our choice this draft, take the DT, and maybe he makes and impact, take the Rb, and he will make an impact.

    Plus, to be honest, We need a new face on the Franchise McFadden could be that face so to speak.

    Nameless Lineman don't go #1 for exactly that reason, teams picking #1 have had terrible seasons, the #1 pick allows them to rebrand the team. That is one of the reasons why QB's and RB's go #1 they generate excitement.
     
  35. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Nah, the last thing we need right now is McFadden. When Ronnie is in there, the offense does fine. The defense is the reason we're losing games, they can't stop anybody. I would rather pass on McFadden or at least trade the #1 pick to a team that really wants him to keep him away from NE and gain more picks in the process.
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If we can trade then go for it.

    My view is based on the idea that we cannot trade and none of the defensive players available are worth the #1 pick.

    Also it is not unheard of to have more then 1 top flight running back and Mueller has made moves to add another one before with Deuce and Rickey.

    Dorsey reminds me of Russel Maryland, but not as talented as Maryland made plays in college even when hurt.:tank:
     
  37. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Making draft day trades is definitely tough. Some teams hold the value chart as gospel and others use it as a guide, it all comes down to how badly a team wants a particular player. I read an article in SI about how the Lions were trying hard to trade down and all that goes into trying to get a deal done, definitely tough.

    If we can't trade the pick, I say draft Chris Long. I would much rather see the Phins pick up Gholston, but #1 is waaay to early for him.

    True, but with all of the holes that this team has (mainly on D), I don't see how Randy could sell McFadden to Wayne and the fans, especially seeing that Ronnie was doing so well before he was injured. McFadden is a luxury pick for a team that already has a legit starting RB, we're not in a position to select luxury picks IMO.
     
  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Sell McFadden?

    Hmm..."He is a real home run hitter averaging 5.5 yds per carry, has never been injured, and runs a 4.3 40 yd dash....and he raises seeing eye dogs for the homeless..."

    The real problem is no 1 defensive player stands out as much as McF stands out on offense, there are no Julius Peppers in this draft only mediocre type of guys with questions.

    Chris Long looks like Matt Roth with a touch more speed, a high motor type.

    Look at your list L2G, none of those guys beside McF can make day one impact.

    We are going to have to spend the 85 million anyway.....:happybday:

    I've yet to see a Defensive player in College this week that stood out as the best player on the field like McF has, very few players have done that this year except for McF and the Oregon RB.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2007
  39. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    If Miami was to draft McFadden, that would tie up a ton of money in the RB spot. Just because McFadden is a flashy player capable of making an immediate impact, that doesn't neccesarily mean that we should draft him. I don't think he fits our plans, JMO though.

    I don't know about that, I think Gholston could have a pretty nice impact on our defense. That wasn't a list of players that I want the Phins to take with the #1, that was a list of players that could be there in the mid 1st round if we should trade down, and players who might be available in rounds 2 and 3 as well. :wink2:

    :)

    Again, I think that the defense should be addressed early and often on draft day. Taking McFadden isn't going to help stop opposing teams from running all over us, and we don't want to be one of those teams that needs to score 30 points to win.

    Just say no to McFadden :wink2:
     

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