Gil Brandt likes our chances next year to become winners

Sure. Of the 18 players drafted by the Dolphins in '08 and '09 only Long, Smith, Hartline and Clemons are still on the team and all 4 are FA at the end of the season. In contrast, Atlanta changed regimes at the same time and they have retained 12 of their 19 draft picks during the same period.

 

But Atlanta hasn't changed HCs since 2008 like the Dolphins did last year. Prior to the HC change, Vontae, Langford, Merling, Henne and Hilliard were still here and are still in the league now. It's not as big a gap as you suggest and that is just one team.

 

well looking at our almost complete 2013 schedule...it will be...a tough task

• Home: Buffalo Bills, New England Patriots, New York Jets, Baltimore Ravens, Cincinnati Bengals, Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers, and the AFC West opponent
• Away: Buffalo Bills, New England Patriots, New York Jets, Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh Steelers, New Orleans Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and the AFC South opponent

 

Geez Louise.

 

Those players either weren't good enough, or smart enough to survive..no matter how you look at it, it was subpar player evaluation.

 

Not necessarily. Players fit schemes. A player may be the right evaluation for what one coach wants and not fit what a new coach wants. The lack of coaching stability for the Dolphins is a huge factor that makes simplistic analysis such as counting how many draft picks stuck, meaningless.

 

I have been as negative in regards to Ireland as anyone on this forum. I just don't think he is a very good NFL GM. It upsets me that Ross seems sold on a guy who has been here as the teams GM for five years and the Dolphins will probably end up being a sub 500 team, for their fourth year in a row. .

I can honestly state that as much as I want to see Ireland replaced. I would much rather see the Dolphins once again become a winning organization and me be wrong about Ireland, than see them continue to remain a mediocre team and be right about Ireland.

I accept that he will remain the teams GM in 2013, because it appears Ross is happy with him. A great draft and some great free agent signings in the off season, along with double digit wins in 2013 would be all it would take for me to stop complaining about Ireland. I want this team to win, no matter who the owner or GM may be. I am just fed up with four consecutive years of mediocre football.

Ireland could certainly change by view of him, by actually selecting some quality talent which will get this team to the next level. Until he does, I don't have much use for him as the Dolphins GM.

 

Well, our defense will certainly be tested week in and week out. Can potentially add San Diego and Indianapolis to that list of opponents too.

 

Sorry, but these players still being in the league means very little. Davis was traded for two draft picks, so the Colts obviously aren't going to cut him immediately, even if he doesn't play to the level they thought he would when they traded for him.

Merling has played in only three games this season for the Packers and he has a grand total of two tackles. Why he is still in the NFL is one of the great mysteries of life. Hilliard is a backup RB for the Jets who has 8 carries for less than 40 yards this season. He basically plays on the special teams for the Jets. This was the same type of player he was for the Dolphins. Not a great player but a dime a dozen player in the NFL.

Henne showed clearly last week that he is not a starting caliber QB in the NFL. Of course that was obvious to all of us who saw him with the Dolphins over his four years with the team. The fact he is still even a backup in the NFL merely shows how weak the QB position is overall, in the NFL.

Langford is the only player in this group who I hated to see the Dolphins lose in free agency. I think he was a solid player on the Dolphins defensive line. But since the DL is one of Miami's few strong units on the team, I understand them letting him go to the Rams. He was paid far more to sign with the Rams than the Dolphins were willing to pay him.

 

Unless the Dolphins sign and draft some outstanding offensive play makers in 2013. This schedule looks a whole lot tougher than 2102 and the Dolphins could be headed for their fifth straight sub 500 record in 2013.

 

I don't know. Honestly we have no idea what is going to happen during the offseason or during next season. It is WAY too early to say the schedule is more hard.

 

Have a plan..Target acquisitions..You get Jennings..Eiffert and Tavon and your good to go..

Sill have three picks left in the top 100 for defense and a good lineman.

 

How do you get Eiffert and Tavon and still have three picks left in top 100?

 

I loved Vontaes game and thought he had great potential, but I didn't get to interview him, didnt get to talk to coaches, didnt get to spy on him in the gym, the miss includes the inability to project character and work ethic..

Same thing with Merling..

 

We have five picks..1a 2 a..Eiffert and Austin...

Maybe Tavon will go a bit earlier but at this point I'm just basing it on where the pundits are projecting.

 

But the new information at hand would be an 11-5 record. An actual tangible statistic proving that the team is good

This isn't politics or religion where ideologies are being discussed. In that case I agree with you.

But this is a sport where, like it or not, the GM is being judged by fans on how the team performs and the bottom line (Team record). And the fans that dislike Ireland do so because the Dolphins have been below .500. Make this team 11-5 next year and it goes away.

 

Aw, most mock drafts I have seen has Tavon in the late first.

I could see Miami trading down and then trading up to get Efiert and Tavon. It would be a fun feat to watch.

 

On the contrary, I think the record would readily be attributed to Philbin and Tannehill. Philbin's hiring would be attributed to Ross exclusively, and the drafting of Tannehill would be attributed to 1) a combination of Philbin and Sherman, and/or 2) the idea that even a monkey could've and would've picked Tannehill at that spot, which means Ireland would get little or no credit for it.

Ireland would be kept completely out of the equation for some. He simply can't win. Watch.

Someone has to "pay" for making my team have so many losing seasons in a row. That person will forever live in infamy, no matter what improvement occurs on his watch. That's the sentiment.

 

I hope this thread is bumped by one of us 380 days from now because we finished 12-4.

I think the credit will get spread around, but hopefully we'll see

 

I disagree. I've known people who didn't think Joe Montana was a good QB from the beginning. Multiple SBs later they still think he was just on great teams. To bring one closer to home. I would guess that if you had asked people who thought Hartline was not even a #2 WR if they would change their mind if he had a 1000 or 1100 yard season most would have said, "of course". Now that he's reached 1000 and may reach 1100, the conversation is about his TDs or some other excuse. It's human nature and it happens over and over.

 

I think one has to respect the opinion of Gil Brandt and take it for more than the value of someone else (like mine, for instance) simply because of his sheer knowledge and experience in the game. With that said, however, to quote Brian Billick, "nobody knows anything".

 

And a lot of the guys from those Atlanta drafts that are still on the Falcons play very little. Others play a lot but not very well. The point is that the HC change for the Dolphins last year makes comparison of how many players are still on the roster to a team that hasn't had a coaching change almost irrelevant. And to the extent it is relevant at all, a comparison to one team means virtually nothing. Especially if one has cherry picked the team witht he best record in the NFL.

 

There will always be someone to blame. The usual suspects will always be the GM, the HC, the OC, the DC and the QB. Just among the coaches and FO people, the list of people who had pretty long and successful NFL careers who are considered morons and incompetents by a lot of people around here and elsewhere in Dolfandom is quite long. Even Shula and JJ are not immune despite multiple SB wins. Without the SB wins, one barely has a chance at a semi-favorable reputation among Dolphin fans.

 

I'm hoping Tavon drops into the second and I don't think it's even unlikely. First of all, mock drafts at this time of year are usually so far off from what actually happens that they're almost meaningless. Second, Tavon is one of those players that lacks great size and arguably lacks a position (RB or WR). Those types generally drop unless some team falls in love with him. It could happen, but in my experience GMs more often avoid the uncertainty or the risk of that type of player in the first.

 

I do agree that mock drafts at this time of year are a lot more useless than mock drafts in March or April. I do think it is possible for a team to fall in love with him. He is really fast and really productive.

 

They actually have a competent GM. Our's, well.......

 

Been hearing that for awhile now.

 

And he's cut from a different cloth than Belichick. More ballsy than BB.

 

I dunno. He had a very nice draft in 2008. His 2009 draft was meh. William Moore was a nice pick but Peria Jerry is pretty much a bust. Nobody else from that draft is of any real significance. 2010 was similarly mediocre. Sean Weatherspoon is a good player, but hardly a superstar. Corey Peters plays, but not all that well. For 2011, Julio Jones is good, but he was a top 6 pick and they gave up a lot to get him. The others in that draft are nothing special. It's early, but their 2011 draft doesn't look great either. Peter Konz is playing, but not all that well, and that's about it.

 

You think far, far more highly of Weatherspoon than I do. And for what it's worth, PFF rates him lower than both Burnett and Misi. If you've watched and evaluated every down that those three players have played like PFF does and have a different opinion, I'm certainly interested in hearing about how/why Weatherspoon is so much better.

I don't consider the Julio Jones move a fantastic one. He's a good player, but they gave up a ton to get him. I tend to think they could have gotten more with the picks they gave up to get him. And I think you are kidding yourself if you think Julio Jones would singlehandedly improve this team (or any team) by 4 or more games.

 

I just don't agree. And I don't think there is any real evidence that the mere presence of a "deep threat" opens anything up for other receivers or for the running game. When you compare teams' performance with and without their big-time WR, you don't see big differences, or any real differences, in the running game. Nor do you see the presence of the deep threat opening things up much for the underneath receivers. Looking at Julio Jones in particular, we know that Atlanta's running game hasn't gotten better since he's been there (it's gotten worse). And Matt Ryan's completion percentage on passes less than 10 yards past the LOS is no better in 2012 than it was in 2010 before Julio Jones got there. I'm not at all sure how/why the presence of Julio Jones would cause fewer interceptions. We do know that Matt Ryan's interception rate has gone up since 2010 since Julio Jones has been there. Is there a reason to think it would be different for Tannehill?

 

Do you mean other than coaches and NFL player-analysts speaking of it routinely?... as well as vertical stretch principles being an important staple of offenses for a long time? It's not difficult to understand the concept of space and how it can be either stretched or confined. Don't take my word for it. Take Sid Gillman's, the father of the modern passing game and whose philosophy & principles directly influenced the likes of Coryell & Walsh.

You can read the book about Gilman's influence, 'The Game that Changed the Games', here for free. I already have it set to highlight the words "vertical, stretch, concepts". http://books.google.com/books?id=Bz...d gillman "vertical stretch" concepts&f=false​

 

Quoting stats is baseless in this situation WADR. Atlanta traded up for Julio b/c they badly NEEDED that extra vertical presence if they wanted to take the next step and not be bounced in round 1 of the playoffs year after year. Why do you think they gave up so much for him? That's how important that aspect of the game is.

Before Julio, Atlanta lacked the ability to beat good defenses b/c they didn't have enough explosiveness & vertical presence at WR to stretch the field; as such it allowed good defenses to constrict the field which strangled Atlanta's offense, especially Matt Ryan. Now they're putting up 34 points against the Giants and beating Denver 27-24, where as their 2010 offense would've struggled in these games. BTW, Atlanta's offense has changed, has a different OC, and is no longer run-first..... which they can do now that they added Julio.

 

Per profootballfocus, and nicked up or not over the past few years, Witherspoon ranks really badly on tackling efficiency. Over a 3 year span, Spoon posts the worst ratio among linebackers, missing a tackle for every 7.1 he attempted... Dansby, Burnett, and Misi are all better in this regard.

Most of our guys are better than they gets credit for, (apart from SSmith), and as fans we're usually overly critical as we watch these guys and pick up their singular failings unlike other teams guys, who we only see highlights of on tv... Interestingly enough, as many people seem to determine whether a player is good or not by their fantasy points... As per today - http://www.fftoday.com/stats/playerstats.php?Season=2012&GameWeek=&PosID=60

Dansby, Burnett and Wake all out rank Spoon in FF rankings as well...

Stats wise, Dansby is a tackling machine, even with a busted wing, he has 30+ more tackles than Spoon and 2 less sacks...

As for the drafting of Julio Jones, there were really only 2 1st round receivers in that draft - AJ Green and Jones. Baldwin benefitted from the weak class. The Falcons had to be aggressive to get one of those 2 as it was a weak class and after missing Green, they had to pony up to Jones, gamble on Baldwin, who they didn't like, or wait for another season for a big, fast 1st round WR...

 

So even if you count Langford and Vonte, the other 3 are still not worth a roster spot here regardless of scheme, so you still get 6 to 12.

I will take Atlanta's talent evaluator...

 

Oh well. You can't have everything.

 

But it's a beautiful theory, and it can be readily invoked as "proof" of some player's shortcomings when someone is disappointed with him.

 

Comers and safety's who don't feel threatened from covering their territory inspire their cheating instincts.

 

I don't know what that means.

In zone coverages, DBs cover their zone. Doesn't matter who the opposing team is the integrity of the defense depends on the players performing their responsibilities and that is generally what they do. Some players do tend to freelance a little, but they freelance against everyone, not just the Dolphins and not just because someone remembers Brian Hartline's 40 time from the Combine. Every NFL receiver can beat you deep and make you look ridiculous (not to mention hurting your team) if you don't respect them. And every CB knows that.

But let's put the theory aside. Is there any evidence of the presence of a WR improving or affecting the team's running game? Is there any evidence of a deep threat WR really opening up things underneath for other receivers? His first few years in NE the argument was that Moss opened things up underneath for Wes Welker and that was the key to Welker's success. Except when Moss declined and then left, Welker happily went on catching 110+ passes per season. When Brandon Marshall came here it was supposed to help the running game and open up the passing game for the other WRs. It did neither. Then he went to Chicago and it did neither there. The Texans have run the ball as well without Andre Johnson as with him. And the underneath receivers have been no more productive or efficient when he has been healthy. Calvin Johnson hasn't improved the Lions running game nor has it led to any great production or efficiency from the underneath receivers. The Packers have played a decent portion fo the season without one or even two of their starting WRs. Their running game hasn't declined due to "Cheating" safeties. It's gotten a little better.

 

Yes, if you use it they will respect it. It has nothign to do with the 40 time of the receiver or whether he is a Pro Bowler. If you want the defense to worry about the deep ball, throw the deep ball.

There are so many phony memes in the NFL that are demonstrably false and not supported by any real empirical evidence but people cling to them and recite them over and over. It doesn't make those things true.