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Gesicki Getting Some Love

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Over in the Training Camp thread Mike Gesicki's name has come up a few times and getting some love.

    His blocking was the problem last year - can it be solved?

    Even so, this stat surprised me:


    So what do you think Phins fans? Are you excited for Gesicki this year?

    And what of the other TE's?
     
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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The 5 days I went to camp last year, he made acrobatic plays in the end zone, mostly on jump ball situations..one handed catches..

    I’ve said since predraft, his one strength is being able to extend over his opponents..His weaknesses are apparent, beating and separating from man coverage, decelerating in route, COD, lateral quickness, overall lacks efficient coordination and precise movement skills.

    Obviously he was criminally misused last year, because he can’t block period, never had the potential never will, that debate is out to rest imo, so best use for him is flexing him wide in the formation, putting him in motion and freeing him up formationally as much as possible..He is not in any sense of the word, a tight end imo, just a big wide receiver who can get in the way on occassion.
     
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  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    More of this please!

    Let's hope it's legit!

     
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  4. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Somebody on this board once asked, "Is Adam Gase the biggest scam in football?"

    Yes. He. Is.

    Gesicki is not nor has ever been a complete tight end. He is a gloried WR that should take on the Jimmy Graham role. Gase never had a clue about who his guys were or were not. Gase put people in position to fail.

    If you need a blocker, get him out. We literally drafted Smythe to block. Now we have Allen.

    The Patriots were built on a bunch of guys that were really good at fulfilling very specific roles. Sounds to me like the new coaching staff understands the team more than a guy who coached the team for three seasons.
     
  5. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    It's early yet and time will tell, but I think you are spot on about this. It's about time. It seems like we have been waiting a long time for a coaching staff that has a clue.
     
  6. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I still strongly disagree with this. Being an adequate blocker isnt something you can or cant do based on skill, especially from the TE or backfield positions.

    He may need a better mentality and that can be tough to fix, but he isnt so unathletic in the ways you're describing that he cant become an average blocker, especially at his size.

    He needs to understand angles and his assignments better. Do you really think in HS or even college they put a lot of work into his blocking? I doubt it honestly.
     
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  7. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Gesicki has already shown improvement as a blocker and Travis specifically cites an example of an effective block in his tweet, so the claim that he "can't" block has already been proven wrong. Gesicki still has a long way to go to prove he can be a consistent blocker though. But people need to understand that his role this year and realistically the first several years in the NFL should not be about his blocking.

    Effective use of his strengths would use him more like Zach Ertz was used in Philly. Ertz came in as a horrendous blocker. He was undeniably as bad, (imo he was actually less effective as a blocker than Gesicki) when he came in. Those first couple of years Ertz was a clear weakness as a blocker, but he was used effectively as a receiver. Here's a quote from Ertz in 2017,
    "I probably wouldn't have even been in the game five years ago if it was a running play," . That was after a play where helped spring the back for a long run and was a key blocker on several plays that day. For the first two years of his career Ertz was a technically a back-up to Celek. He mostly played on passing plays. And the fact of the matter is that Ertz has put up phenomenal numbers as a receiving TE. Many people would argue that Ertz is still not a complete TE. But he certainly has been an important part of some very good Philly teams, including one that won the SB. IMO Ertz didn't develop into an effective blocker until 2017 (he was drafted in 2013). He became a starter in 2016, but even then they still used him sparsely on run plays. He played on 68% of the snaps his third year. He was out on many run plays and on the run plays he was in was rarely a key blocker. It wasn't until his 5th year that they started using him on +80% of the plays and as an important factor in their run game.

    IMO that should be the model for Gesicki. IIRC they had remarkably similar combine measurements (other than Gesicki's crazy vert) and their limited use as a blocker in college was also similar.

    Zach Ertz Mike Gesicki NFL Combine Scores

    Player Dimensions
    Height: 77.00 inches Height: 77.00 inches
    Weight: 249 pounds Weight: 247 pounds
    BMI: 30.24 BMI: 29.99
    Arm Length: 31.68 inches Arm Length: 34.00 inches
    Hand Size: 9.68 inches Hand Size: 10.13 inches

    Measurables
    40 Yard Dash: 4.76 seconds 40 Yard Dash: 4.54 seconds
    20 Yard Dash: 2.77 seconds 20 Yard Dash: 2.65 seconds
    10 Yard Dash: 1.68 seconds 10 Yard Dash: 1.56 seconds
    Bench Press: 24 reps (225 lb) Bench Press: 22 reps (225 lb)
    Vertical Leap: 30.5 inches Vertical Leap: 41.5 inches
    Broad Jump: 111 inches Broad Jump: 129 inches
    20 Yd Shuttle: 4.47 seconds 20 Yd Shuttle: 4.10 seconds
    Three Cone: 7.08 seconds Three Cone: 6.76 seconds
    60 Yd Shuttle: 11.92 seconds 60 Yd Shuttle: 11.33 seconds
     
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  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We disagree, It would be a jump in play if he became below average let alone average, he’s far from average in that dept..I see functional coordination and balance issues so I don’t have any conviction like you do..

    I would choose to use the strength of the skill set not force the weaknesses into him or the team..

    I mean if you want to use him on some Crack back blocks coming across the formation that’s fine I’m sure he can get in the way..

    Rooting for the guy to Do what he can do not what he can’t do, hoping the staff utilizes correctly.
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Travis saw a rep where he got squared, with all due respect Nothing has been proven wrong, not after what he has put on film at the college and pro level..he’s shown to be futile as a blocker.
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  11. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Factually if he blocks successfully one time then it disproves a claim that he "can't" block.
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ohhh ok, you wanna play that game..

    not gonna play the sematic game, he's as bad of a blocker there is at that position in football, by a good amount, if you wanna keep banging your peg in a round hole because of some game of word sematics go right ahead man..
     
  13. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    My man, deej. Sorry, but I really don't get this thing you have developed against Gesicki. He is not the classic blocking type of TE!!
    Just forget that for now. You know i have discussed this a lot when he was drafted. You know how i said he should be used. You want to look at him now as bigger type of receiver, that's fine. That's what I kept mentioning. Great. Think of him that way. You should. I mentioned about the match up nightmares he can possibly create. That's how he should be used. We have other more classic type of blocking TEs. I don't even want him to be that type of TE. Remember that "fraud" of coach we previously had who kept him into block on the majority of his snaps? Well? ...."fraud"!! Now that was fraudulent. When he was drafted, you posted that one play from college where he blocked and looked a bit awkward. I then posted several clips of him blocking sufficiently against some pretty good college Ds. Those were ignored. However, at this point, I don't care. I don't even want him to used that way. I don't know if he will end up being a great receiving TE, but I do think the potential is certainly there. I would give him a chance to develop before you continue to grind this axe. It's nothing personal, brotha', but it has become a wee bit odd and over the top. Give him a chance with a competent coaching staff and see what happens. If you're right, then get out the pitchforks, but that was his first year with a "fraud" of a head coach and a terrible coaching staff and an ugly carousel of QBs. (no offense to Tanne. He was a good, tough guy who tried his best). TE is a position that takes more time to develop at the pro level. We all want our team to have great success. He's on the team. So, give it a chance and see how he develops. No biggie. Breath deep, blow that s--t out and enjoy the ride. Wtf else are we going to do? :beer:
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    jesus Sceeto, its not an aXe, the guy should be kept from blocking at all cost, y'all need to stop taking it personal when some are critiqing the players strength and weaknesses..In this case Gesickis blocking prowess.

    nothing he did in his rookie year showed me anything different than what I thought he was gonna show predraft.., he's as bad as I thought so I know what he is, and I want whats best for our team so my hope lyes in a smart staff that can use what strengths he does have, not some pipe dream that goes againt evidence, if some of you wanna keep hope alive in the blocking dept based on what he shows on tape...its all good, do you.
     
  15. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I mentioned my thoughts about the blocking. You keep mentioning blocking. I just addressed that point. Don't want to repeat myself. I don't know what else to say. Have at it, brotha'. Peace.
     
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  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hes a laughing stock in the league at this point..

    Not his fault..I’m perplexed as to how you think he is adequate but it’s really not worth it, it’s been talked about ad nauseam..until he proves that he’s not a tell, a liability, that’s he’s not an injury waiting to happen to him or one of his teammates, then he is inadequate..
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    That is a huge over statement.

    It hasn't been talked about as nauseam. It is not his strength, however, it is not nearly as bad as you paint it.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It really isn’t, the proof is out there if one is inclined to find it..

    I’m confident this staff isn’t as stupid as Gase is..
     
  19. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not just semantics. You made an extreme statement. Maybe you exaggerated for emphasis but all it does is weaken your point.

    And I don't want to put a round peg in a square hole. I don't want him used as a blocker at this point. Anybody who keeps focusing on his blocking is the one who is trying to fit him in a hole. I want him to have an Ertz-type role, who was easily as bad of blocker at the TE position when he entered the league (IMO worse as he was not just bad but also unwilling). And Ertz really was a laughingstock as a blocker. I remember seeing memes of his embarrassingly bad blocking and/or "business decision" showings. Yet now even he has developed into an effective blocker (it took 5 or 6 years). That's how you develop a player. BTW there were many people who said that Ertz would never be an effective blocker, but those extreme, absolute statements seem ridiculous now as any team would want him.

    Or if you want a more NE offense type example, look at Hernandez. Hernandez was rarely used as a blocker. IIRC CK said he was used as a blocker on 4% of the plays. They paired Hernandez with a more well-rounded TE. Gronk played more but Hernandez was targeted just as much. That's how I expect the Dolphins to use Gesicki. They will continue to develop his blocking in the off-season, but use him to his strengths in the games. They won't be harping on his blocking and force him into a ill-fitting role like Gase did. They'll focus on his strengths.
     
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  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Exactly. Gesicki had a higher blocking percentage on pass plays last year than Gronkowski. Which was just stupid. His was nearly triple of the next highest rookie tight end. All rookie tight ends suck at blocking.

    No one wants him to block so much, other than Gase for some reason.

    Saying that, he tried his best and for the most part stopped his person from making the play. He wasn't good, however, he wasn't Ted Ginn out there trying to block.
     
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  21. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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  22. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    IMO Flores will try to recreate something similar to what they had in NE with Gronk/Hernandez using Smythe/Gesicki. I'm more confident of Gesicki's ability to be a less murdery Hernandez than I am in Smythe's ability to be a Gronk. Both of those NE TEs were special talents. I like Smythe as a solid all-around TE, but I doubt anybody expects him to become Gronk. Gesicki on the other hand has the physical ability to be a Hernandez. Developing and utilizing that skill set is where the focus should be.
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok,
    You see the thing about my point is, it has has been consistent since predraft, I do believe he is on the extreme wrong end of this topic, when some folks try to tell me that he isn’t as bad as I’m saying, well they have no proof to back their statement, some just say it because he’s a dolphin...I understand your POV, you have much more faith in him getting better because of his physical skill set, for me it’s BECAUSE of his physical skill set I don’t see much more meat on the bone in terms of improving in this dept..This really isn’t a personal thing or some axe against this kid, I just want our team to draft diversely talented football players, not one dimensional ones, and nobody can convince me he isn’t on the extreme end of that definition..Aaron Hernandez and Zach Ertz have completely different skill sets, movement wise Gesicki is not like them, he’s a different breed and it’s yet to be seen whether his type of skill set can be worth a hi 2nd round pick..

    But we all hope that he can improve in other areas as well..

    I think he projects as a 34-40 catch guy with 4-5tds who isn’t good enough to be on the field for blocking because of the tell, and the reputation he now has in this league, which is laughing stock worthy.
     

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