Gase vs Ross

"cbrad wrote:

You're picking one factoid and elevating it above a ton of others. We've seen reports about how Ross was frustrated with who they decided to draft, about Gase not prioritizing the OL, about a ton of disagreements and arguments between the two leading up to the firing. And saying Gase doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild does NOT mean Ross was willing to keep Gase for a rebuild, unless you can produce an exact quote with Ross stating that, which I have not seen. Based on everything I've seen/read, including Ross' press conference, Ross simply wasn't happy with the direction of the franchise and with many decisions Gase made.

Ross left almost all decisions up to the "football savvy minds". He picked Tannenbaum and Gase, but for the most part left it up to them to run the football side of operations. So no he's not "always making decisions" about the day to day operations of the franchise.

And you also don't know who else he's consulted with over the years that are football experts. You're making a lot of suppositions here without clear evidence those assumptions are correct.

"cbrad wrote:

Sorry dude.. unless you produce an actual quote from Ross saying he wasn't going to fire Gase if Gase was fine with a rebuild you're just making stuff up. What we know from the press conference is that Ross thinks we're no further along than where we were when he first bought the team, and that we aren't just a few key free agents away from building a playoff caliber team, and that he wants a rebuild.

The stuff about the decision on whether or not Gase remained was up to Gase is pure conjecture.

..unless of course you can produce a direct quote from Ross saying this (and make sure you provide a link so we can see the source).

Ross said specifically during his press conference when asked why he fired Adam Gase that Gase "wants to win now". He explained that the 4th year coach isn't interested in rebuilding, which according to Ross was the one and only reason Gase was not retained. He was asked by another reporter after the interview the same question, and Ross responded slightly different, saying that Ross wanted to rebuild, Gase wasn't interested in that, and thus they went their separate ways.

Ross also said that most members of the media were completely wrong with all of the speculation, and that their relationship, while at times difficult, was very strong and they parted on good terms after simply not coming to agreement on what next year would hold.

I was there at the press conference by the way.

don't forget that ross wanted to promote a DC from within, hence Burke, instead of spend money on an outside DC like Gase wanted.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

Interesting point. A lot of our decisions these last few years have been made using a consensus. Grier’s personality seems well suited for compromise. However, now that Grier is VP of football operations I expect his expertise to prevail in the HC decision. I don’t feel comfortable one bit with Ross being part of the final decision. If he is there for support, fine. To write the check, fine. To make an argument for one HC candidate over another?, not fine!

Take this scenerio:

-Owner of <insert company> fires a collection of upper management. There is now a void above you.
-The owner comes into your office and tells you that he will promote you to head honcho.
-You will be in charge. More pay. More responsibility.
-The caveat associated with this promotion is that you must take the company in a very specific direction, with specific goals as dictated to you by the owner.

Do you take the promotion? After you're now the acting head of said company, do you really get to make up your own mind or is your primary directive to do what the owner of the company asked of you? Do you go against him if you feel it's wrong, or do you you simply do as your told?

Right now that's Chris Grier. First time GM. Very little is known about him. He doesn't have a big name. He wasn't in high demand. His boss came into his office and said "Chris, you'll be in charge if you do this" and Chris said yes. So who's really in charge?

Again, I'm not saying Chris Grier isn't good at his job and won't succeed. I hope he is...and does. But, he's not really running things.

"muskrat21 wrote:

don't forget that ross wanted to promote a DC from within, hence Burke, instead of spend money on an outside DC like Gase wanted.

Reportedly, the DC that Gase wanted to hire was Kris Richard.

"Fame wrote:

Ross said specifically during his press conference when asked why he fired Adam Gase that Gase "wants to win now". He explained that the 4th year coach isn't interested in rebuilding, which according to Ross was the one and only reason Gase was not retained. He was asked by another reporter after the interview the same question, and Ross responded slightly different, saying that Ross wanted to rebuild, Gase wasn't interested in that, and thus they went their separate ways.

Really?

So as far as I can tell this is the press conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id=2IiG-G9htns;t=17

I mean they leave at the end so that's the press conference. At around 10:15 you hear Ross saying Adam "wants to win and win now". Yes, we all knew that. NOWHERE does he say that was "the one and only reason Gase was not retained".

Sorry dude I think you're making this up. We didn't hear that reported from any of the insiders in Club, we haven't seen that reported in the news media anywhere so unless you produce an actual video here I think you're making that up.

"cbrad wrote:

Really?

So as far as I can tell this is the press conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id=2IiG-G9htns;t=17

I mean they leave at the end so that's the press conference. At around 10:15 you hear Ross saying Adam "wants to win and win now". Yes, we all knew that. NOWHERE does he say that was "the one and only reason Gase was not retained".

Sorry dude I think you're making this up. We didn't hear that reported from any of the insiders in Club, we haven't seen that reported in the news media anywhere so unless you produce an actual video here I think you're making that up.

This might be difficult for you to understand but the information you seek, unlike your heralded high school career, is not contained all in the same place within the same 15 second sound bite.

I don't know what to tell you. Everything is out there for you. You're welcome to not believe anything you want. If you feel I didn't convey the point well enough, that's fine. I'm not a journalist. I don't run some Dolphins blog. I don't take detailed notes to reflect upon. At a certain point I'm just a guy reading twitter quotes and passing along that information occasionally mixed with my opinion. Not in here trying to ruffle your panties my friend.

Or maybe it's all just a big, global conspiracy aimed at changing your mind about something relatively minor.

"Fame wrote:

This might be difficult for you to understand but the information you seek, unlike your heralded high school career, is not contained all in the same place within the same 15 second sound bite.

I don't know what to tell you. Everything is out there for you. You're welcome to not believe anything you want. If you feel I didn't convey the point well enough, that's fine...but at a certain point I'm just a guy reading twitter quotes like you. Not in here trying to ruffle your panties my friend.

What's easy for me to understand is that you just lied to us. You said IN the press conference that Ross said "the one and only reason Gase was fired" was because he wasn't interested in rebuilding. You tried to add credibility to that claim by saying you were there.

Whether you were there or not is beside the point. You knowingly made a false statement about what Ross said in the press conference (I mean I know you can google the press conference video to see what he actually said). So that's some serious hit to your credibility there.

Sorry.. you are the ONLY person saying Ross said this as far as I know. And you can't provide ANY evidence Ross actually said it. And no I don't believe you at all. Up till this point I just thought you had a different opinion. Now I think you lack integrity.

"cbrad wrote:

Really?

So as far as I can tell this is the press conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id=2IiG-G9htns;t=17

I mean they leave at the end so that's the press conference. At around 10:15 you hear Ross saying Adam "wants to win and win now". Yes, we all knew that. NOWHERE does he say that was "the one and only reason Gase was not retained".

Sorry dude I think you're making this up. We didn't hear that reported from any of the insiders in Club, we haven't seen that reported in the news media anywhere so unless you produce an actual video here I think you're making that up.

Apparently Fame is the only person on the planet who speaks "Rossanese" aka "Sour Grapes".

"Fame wrote:

Take this scenerio:

-Owner of <insert company> fires a collection of upper management. There is now a void above you.
-The owner comes into your office and tells you that he will promote you to head honcho.
-You will be in charge. More pay. More responsibility.
-The caveat associated with this promotion is that you must take the company in a very specific direction, with specific goals as dictated to you by the owner.

Do you take the promotion? After you're now the acting head of said company, do you really get to make up your own mind or is your primary directive to do what the owner of the company asked of you? Do you go against him if you feel it's wrong, or do you you simply do as your told?

Right now that's Chris Grier. First time GM. Very little is known about him. He doesn't have a big name. He wasn't in high demand. His boss came into his office and said "Chris, you'll be in charge if you do this" and Chris said yes. So who's really in charge?

Again, I'm not saying Chris Grier isn't good at his job and won't succeed. I hope he is...and does. But, he's not really running things.

You've been direct about avoiding speculation and listening only to what had actually been said and that's a good thing. It seems you're doing the reverse here though. Unless you've specifically heard this? The scenario is plausible and there were indications this is what happened to Gase. Nevertheless, we don't know the details or extent of any such restrictions/direction.

What's more, a certain amount of direction is often present when taking on any job. An owner of any business will usually have some sort of direction in mind. The question then becomes how much trust and freedom is given, or earned over time. My guess is that Ross is at least open to possibilities and change if Grier can provide that direction.

When Ross expands on the whole "He wants to win now" element - he mentions with THIS roster and applying bandaids, which is what Ross doesn't want to do anymore. I'm sure that opinion comes with the assistance of Grier, which I'm perfectly fine with as he's more suited to build a roster than a false OC-wunderkind pretending to be a head coach.

"Fame wrote:

Take this scenerio:

-Owner of <insert company> fires a collection of upper management. There is now a void above you.
-The owner comes into your office and tells you that he will promote you to head honcho.
-You will be in charge. More pay. More responsibility.
-The caveat associated with this promotion is that you must take the company in a very specific direction, with specific goals as dictated to you by the owner.

Do you take the promotion? After you're now the acting head of said company, do you really get to make up your own mind or is your primary directive to do what the owner of the company asked of you? Do you go against him if you feel it's wrong, or do you you simply do as your told?

Right now that's Chris Grier. First time GM. Very little is known about him. He doesn't have a big name. He wasn't in high demand. His boss came into his office and said "Chris, you'll be in charge if you do this" and Chris said yes. So who's really in charge?

Again, I'm not saying Chris Grier isn't good at his job and won't succeed. I hope he is...and does. But, he's not really running things.

By you saying Grier is not running things is that your opinion or is that fact from an inside source?

Ross said at presser that Grier is making all football decisions. Why would he say that if he wanted a yes man. I don’t believe Grier would agree to that. I just don’t.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

By you saying Grier is not running things is that your opinion or is that fact from an inside source?

Ross said in presser that Grier is making all football decisions. Why would he say that if he wanted a yes man. I don’t believe Grier would agree to that. I just don’t.

If people are going to even try to hint that Ross has somehow taken on some kind of Jerry Jones approach, they're out of their minds.

"Fame wrote:

I'm confused as to where this stigma came from that Adam Gase just pouted and blamed everyone else. I recall him using the word "we" a lot, and I specifically remember him taking all the blame himself in press conferences by saying that certain players are not prepared and that it's ultimately his fault.

Simple fact of the matter is that injuries DID hurt us, we were constantly using backup QBs, and Landry, Suh and Ajayi NEEDED to go. I believe Suh was rated mid teens for defensive linemen this year (we would have been paying him far too much for that), Ajayi's knees are ALREADY gone, and Landry was a head case and a diva. Browns fans I know already hate the guy.

Furthermore, you've got guys like McVay and Reid sitting on the bench away from the defense, but they don't get smashed for it.

What's really going on is that you don't like the guy, and you're looking at every piece of evidence from that perspective. You already made your mind up, so everything you find to "support" your already formed opinion, you just cling to, even if that support is false.

If certain players weren't prepared ie Landry and Gase continuously centered the offense around a head case and diva instead of benching his ass or giving more reps Jakeem Grant than that's on Gase. Gase built this roster he signed old injury prone Julius Thomas, old injury prone Josh Sitton, old injury prone Amendola. He decided to roll the dice on Tannehill instead of drafting a QB in the 3rd or 4th round to groom should Tanny go down. He signed those back up QB's. We've had a crap oline under Gase his entire tenure and yet not one guard was drafted with a 1st or 2nd round pick. As a matter of fact only 1 guard was drafted in 3 years because Gase chose to use the bandaid approach instead of trying to actually fix the problem.

McVay or Reid have never been shown on camera PRETENDING to write something or draw something during a live game.

Regardless of who blamed who and injuries the FACTS are under Gase the Dolphins had one of the worst defenses in franchise history, the dolphins were still an undisciplined team full of penalties, the Dolphins still were crap on the road under Gase while being decent to good at home and that's 100% on coaching, and the play calling was still terrible.

Whether I like the guy or not is not what's going on. I don' know the guy he could be great I don't care. I don't like Adam Gase the coach, Adam Gase the coach has shown me nothing in 3 years that would make me think he's the guy. Outside of 2016 and he basically has the same record as Joe Philbin. I don't really have to look hard for the evidence against him there's far more bad evidence than good evidence. Of course my opinion is formed it's been 3 years and the dude got fired, what am I supposed to think? That he's going to turn this ship around? Maybe he grows and learns from this experience and goes on to become a great HC (I doubt it) but it's clear that was not going to happen here in Miami.

We had nothing to build on, we dont have a quarterback. A few players worth keeping like Minkah and Xavien. But what this franchise needs is an overhaul so Ross is right about that. Cant continue adding onto mediocrity.

Guys, let's not detail the discussion by taking aim at one another.

Focus on the posts please, not the poster. Less of the insults and accusations. Thanks.

"Vertical Limit wrote:

We had nothing to build on, we dont have a quarterback. A few players worth keeping like Minkah and Xavien. But what this franchise needs is an overhaul so Ross is right about that. Cant continue adding onto mediocrity.

They had a chance to build on something, but again Gase refused to draft a QB or even attempt to make a good faith move for one. He boot-strapped his Dolphins coaching career to Tannehill/Cutler/Osweiler and it backfired. Shocker.

"BicketyBam wrote:

So should I be rooting for him to get the Jets job or not?

You should. The people that bash him are clueless. We got killed by injuries and were basically outmatched every game. He still got us to a 7-9 record even though our point differential was a minus 113. It's kind of like chicago. If you are a simpleton you will look at the stats and say he didn't do much there but the football pros were thoroughly impressed with what he got out of that offense which should have done far less. What killed him this year was our banged up oline which was held together with spit and duct tape and though he was able to scheme his way out of it with average teams, those teams that were top ten against the pass destroyed us and there was no scheme that was going to change that

"Galant wrote:

Guys, let's not detail the discussion by taking aim at one another.

Focus on the posts please, not the poster. Less of the insults and accusations. Thanks.

Telling everyone to only use actual quotes from Ross, then turning around and saying Ross said something for which there's NO evidence, and then insisting we simply trust the poster, requires calling out the integrity of the poster. NEVER seen that on this site before.

"Galant wrote:

You've been direct about avoiding speculation and listening only to what had actually been said and that's a good thing. It seems you're doing the reverse here though. Unless you've specifically heard this? The scenario is plausible and there were indications this is what happened to Gase. Nevertheless, we don't know the details or extent of any such restrictions/direction.

What's more, a certain amount of direction is often present when taking on any job. An owner of any business will usually have some sort of direction in mind. The question then becomes how much trust and freedom is given, or earned over time. My guess is that Ross is at least open to possibilities and change if Grier can provide that direction.

Well I am doing a bit of speculating about Ross and who's really in charge, though that was mostly just to pose the question for discussion.

In terms of direct quotes, I either personally heard or directly read those quotes from Ross over the last week. I happen to be in a place at the moment, physically, that makes it very difficult for me to comb through the thousands (?) of tweets that have come out since Monday morning, but they're out there. Again, it's not a stretch to say that at the end Gase and Ross simply didn't agree with what needed to happen next year.

Even if we just assume I was hearing voices or that I can't really read, and therefore must be lying, the point still remains: Ross fired Gase because they didn't see eye to eye about next year. The point of this discussion was about Ross guiding the franchise at his discretion. The detail about Gase is insignificant, though it is true.

Also, I'd like to point out that most owners of companies have an area of expertise that fits with that company. Not all, but most. People who own bakeries tend to be bakers. The NFL is quite different in that most owners have very little expertise when it comes to their business. Therefore, it is an important detail to suggest that the one leading the company is the one with little expertise to do so.

"adamprez2003 wrote:

You should. The people that bash him are clueless. We got killed by injuries and were basically outmatched every game. He still got us to a 7-9 record even though our point differential was a minus 113. It's kind of like chicago. If you are a simpleton you will look at the stats and say he didn't do much there but the football pros were thoroughly impressed with what he got out of that offense which should have done far less. What killed him this year was our banged up oline which was held together with spit and duct tape and though he was able to scheme his way out of it with average teams, those teams that were top ten against the pass destroyed us and there was no scheme that was going to change that

Gase put that O-line together. So are we supposed to approach this in some sort of bi-polar fashion?

Still doesn't explain such abysmal rankings on offense. You'd think the Gase-Effect would be good enough for a finish within the top 20 ..... that's if you believe he's a mastermind. Of course we're talking about the same man who CLEARLY had a stable of runningbacks outside of the fossil Frank Gore, but he refused to use them.

Gase was like Gollum in LOTR except instead of a ring it was his "previous overly-complicated passing game".

"Rock Sexton wrote:

If people are going to even try to hint that Ross has somehow taken on some kind of Jerry Jones approach, they're out of their minds.

I don’t think Fame is suggesting that. I do think he means;However, if Ross says he wants the team to move in a certain direction who is Grier to argue that if he wants the job. Me? I think then is the time to say no thank you to the offer.

"Fame wrote:

Even if we just assume I was hearing voices or that I can't really read, and therefore must be lying, the point still remains: Ross fired Gase because they didn't see eye to eye about next year. The point of this discussion was about Ross guiding the franchise at his discretion.

Just so it's clear I have absolutely no issue with what you're saying here. I suggest you focus on that and stop defending what you think Ross said until you have clear and incontrovertible evidence. Remember, you're the one who insisted on using only actual quotes from Ross.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

I don’t think Fame is suggesting that. I do think he means;However, if Ross says he wants to the team to move in a certain direction who is Grier to argue that if he wants the job. Me? I think then is the time to say no thank you to the offer.

Considering the mediocrity and the nonsense we've seen during the Gase tenure - how can anyone think Ross is out of line to come to that decision? All the beefing with talented alpha players, the cokehead O-line coach he hired (in fact a terrible coaching staff in general). The inability to get a long with the press without talking down to them like a petulant child. The poor optics sitting on sidelines when the offense wasn't on the field. The generally disrespectful attitude towards the man who pays his salary. The gambling of the franchise on a middling QB who tore his knee twice, with no viable backup plan.

I mean I could go on and on, but this was not a HEAD COACH. This was not a man to steer an entire franchise. It's just not.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

I don’t think Fame is suggesting that. I do think he means;However, if Ross says he wants to the team to move in a certain direction who is Grier to argue that if he wants the job. Me? I think then is the time to say no thank you to the offer.

You're 100% right. You're wasting your time trying to explain it to him though. He's not really interested, he's just got a full-chub for me at the moment and looking to argue.

"cbrad wrote:

Telling everyone to only use actual quotes from Ross, then turning around and saying Ross said something for which there's NO evidence, and then insisting we simply trust the poster, requires calling out the integrity of the poster. NEVER seen that on this site before.

No it doesn't. You can question the consistency of the approach but there is no need to accuse anyone of a lack of integrity. People are can be, and are free to be, inconsistent. This is a discussion board so others are free to call out any inconsistencies. However, the rule here is that posters should address the posts not the posters. This applies to name calling/ insulting too, as has been seen.

If someone feels that a member is intentionally posting misleading content or is somehow being detrimental to the site there's a reporting function that should be used. Otherwise, the discussion should be addressed and accusations about, or insults towers, members avoided.

Along with that, many times is not what one says but how one says it.