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Game planning against NE

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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  2. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Reload

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    Nice job Chris. Not an easy task this weekend feeling like a half glass full kinda guy after last week.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Dang, Tampa's lost 11 of their last 12 games. Apropos of nothing.
     
  4. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I think it's imperative that we establish (and stick with) a running game, especially with no Wilfork and possibly no Kelly. Aqib Talib looks like he may be back for the game, so if he's close to 100% that'll be even more reason to establish the run.

    More importantly, I think, is for our Defensive line to control the line of scrimmage. They need to really apply pressure with just the linemen as much as possible. New England's offensive line is often capable of stonewalling an opposing pass rush, and if they do the same to us on Sunday we're in deep you-know-what. Brady will just pick you apart if he has time, and Amendola looks like he'll play. I'm concerned with what I think is Coyle's tendencies to get too cute or aggressive at times, and that's something that Brady can make you pay for in spades. Pressure needs to come from up the middle, but I'd be judicious in my use of using extra attackers to accomplish this.
     
  5. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I think it's more likely that Finley comes back than Schiano finishes the season.
     
  6. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend Club Member

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    the next dimension
    Run when we should pass and pass when we should run.
     
  7. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    1 RB 2 TE 2 WR - run the hell out of the ball. Keep Brady off the field and protect THill.
     
  8. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

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    I would most definitely use Rishard Matthews to exploit their lack of depth. You put Wallace, Hartline, Gibson, and Matthews on the field. The Pats do not have good CB depth and Matthews can eat this up. I would bring Egnew out of the woods as well. I think Egnew and Matthews could be the surprise weapons we use, but most likely not. I can see us relying on Hartline to get use sure yardage, Mike Wallace for the deep balls, and Clay for the seam busters. Its going to be a typical game from us when we have weapons that could actually help.
     
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  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I would use Matthews and Egnew to challenge the seams.
     
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  10. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    - First of all..I would bring about 3 or 4 Billion B-Gap Blitzes. And when I am done with those....I bring some more. This helps to stop the Lead heavy run game of the Pats and gets us to smack Brady around.

    - I think we have to cut Gronk loose and trust Reshad Jones. We can still win if he catches 9 for 120 and a TD. he does not have jimmy graham's big play ability.

    - On Offense...force them to put linebackers on the field. They are thin there. Use 12 personnel. THROW A LOT out of that set. Run from the spread., Run from 4 wide. Get Rishard Matthews on the field early and often. They tend to refuse to take too many backers out. Run 9999 on their *** and try to get a cheap one.

    - I build in at least 4 elaborate "Shot" plays..and RUN THEM ALL.

    THEY are not explosive...so WE HAVE TO BE.

    Something like that.
     
  11. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    great minds think alike......(I wrote that without reading the previous 3 posts)
     
  12. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    meh... .it all depends on how the Patriots start the game. If they start slow, we have a shot... if they start fast, we're ****ed.
     
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  13. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    The recipe to slow NE down is and always has been HIT TOM BRADY.
     
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  14. Griese's Glasses

    Griese's Glasses Well-Known Member

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    Either win or lose in a blowout....my blood pressure level can't handle anymore of these last minute BS losses.
     
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  15. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Honestly....Gronk can have 10 catches for 150 yards...for all I care. Id fluster Brady...he hates being hit. But more then being hit..he hates pressure right up the middle. Hates it. I would do my best jobs of defense in the redzones, limit the Pats to FG's. I think Gronk is easier to defend and keep track of when you have the back of the goal line as a defender. Traditionally, this didnt work cuz you Welker who would murder you underneath, no matter what kind of short yardage you got. Brady has been sacked 4 times...and thrown a pic with no Ints...in both losses where they kept the Patriots to under a hundred yards rushing.

    I believe...if we can take away their running game...we win this game. Offensively....Aquib Talib may not play, so...we need to do more of stacking the recievers...get Wallace free looks off the line. But...I believe we have a good enough offense if we are balanced..and also take advantage of passes down the field. I do like the idea of using our TEs to exploit the seams....

    But...for me...you wanna pick one thing, stop the run. We stop the run....Brady doesnt have the weapons to just air it out anymore. But..if they can be balanced...he has more then enough.

    Oh and Jesus H christmas....for once we play IN NE....IN OCTOBER...with amazing Football weather on the way.

    I feel good about this weekend..I really do.
     
  16. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I think that you underestimate the coverage abilities of Dion Jordan- he was split out wide in coverage at Oregon for a reason- and I want to see what he can do against Rob Gronkowsi- because I think that otherwise, Gronk is going to eat our lunch. Some kind of balance between that and rushing the passer, that's what I'd like to see from DJ.

    Bellichick does a good job taking away a team's best player, Bobby Knight style- held AJ Green to around 5 catches 60 yards no TDs earlier this year although they lost the game because their offense blew. Maybe we should try that- Gronk first, then keep an eye on Julian Edelman- let Dobson, Thompkins and Hooyawhatever at TE beat us if they can.

    On offense, go deep to Wallace early and often- loosen up the defense, get them on their heels. The caveat is Tannehill getting buried with the crap OL if the deep plays take to long. Throw in a few wrinkles- how about a reverse, how about a flea flicker, how about some play action passes and some screens to Lamar Miller? In short, how about some creativity, variety and deception on offense? How about Sherman getting off of his a** and putting a few new wrinkles in? Time to change things up- it used to be with Shula and Arnsparger, they'd be the ones to find the match ups to exploit, taking hisn' and beating yours, yours beating hisn', et al. We don't have any of that anymore? Wasn't that also part of what Philbin was supposed to bring with him, multiple WR/TE packages and variations, a little complexity on offense? So boring, so unimaginative so far- time to crank it up, pump some life into this team. Screw playing it safe. Go for it.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Do not understand the fascination with Dion Jordan, quite possibly our best pass rusher while Wake is hurt, being put out in coverage on Rob Gronkowski.

    Do not understand, will not understand, does not compute.

    When Jason Taylor was in Miami and we were about to play Tony Gonzalez, do you start raising your hand and saying "How about we put Jason Taylor on Gonzalez? Taylor's a hell of an athlete!"

    Mkaynothxbai.
     
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  18. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Irrelevant. Jason Taylor isn't nearly as good in space as Dion Jordan. I think that I addressed the importance of getting Dion Jordan involved in the pass rush clearly. It's a question of balancing the two.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4_tOiLB_Ko
     
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  19. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    I would just put Dion on the line 40-50 times
     
  20. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I definitely want to see him rush Brady, just do that and cover Gronk part of the time, obviously that's a balancing act. There's some good film of Jordan doing both against Washington St. 2012, some relevant examples starting at around the 2:00 mark:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDdGG55WUsw

    Actually, I came accross this article and imo the writer does a good job of breaking down the issue of Jordan as a very capable pass rusher and coverage LB:

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2013/futures-olbs-dion-jordan-and-barkevious-mingo

    Dion Jordan

    Depending whom you ask, Jordan reminds analysts and scouts of two pros. The first group cites Jordan’s versatility as an edge rusher and athleticism and skill at covering backs, tight ends, and slot receivers. It reminds them of Julian Peterson before his Achilles’ tear. This is why my buddy Josh Norris at Rotoworld and NFL.com believes Smith can have success as the LEO in the 4-3 that Gus Bradley will use in Jacksonville.

    The second group believes Jordan has only scratched the surface of his potential as a pass rusher. The 6-foot-6, 248-pounder from Oregon ran a 4.6-second 40-yard dash, a 4.35-second short shuttle, and a 7.02-second three-cone drill at the NFL Combine. His 40, short shuttle, and 122-inch broad jump were among the best performances in each drill.

    A former scout like Jeremiah believes that if Jordan were let loose as a pass rusher, he could become a dominant edge rusher along the lines of Aldon Smith. Jordan sees this in his own game and has stated that if he could dictate the scheme he'll play in the NFL then it would be as a 3-4 outside linebacker so pass rushing would be his primary duty.

    ---------------------

    So yeah, bring on the pass rush, but let's see what he can do covering Gronk as well, balance the two. Wake's game time status will obviously be important as per this issue. Btw, interesting comment about what Jordan sees as his best position. I think that it will be somewhat of a waste if he doesn't become a full time OLB and both his pass rush and coverage talents are put to their best use.
     
  21. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

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    Egnew is 6'5 265 pounds. He's a big target and could most definitely challenge the seams effectively with Clay. I don't get this coaching staff at all.

    Matthews could be very effective as well at challenging the seams. Although I would love to see him used on Digs, deep outs, deep comebacks, etc. He reminds me of Hartline in some ways. Polished route runner with excellent hands. He has the best hands on the team. He has explosive ability to get yards after the catch. Its the most frustrating aspect to watch about this coaching staff. He reminds me of the Cameron Wake situation, but not as elite as Wake.

    He needs to be incorporated heavily into the gameplan.
     
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  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because the skillset has it all to offer, so why not match some of it up with their strength?

    Do you think he can get to the Qb faster than Brady can find gronk uncovered?
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Talib practiced today.
     
  24. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    I would also use Egnew as a blocker instead of either Miller or Thomas in that shotgun formation.
     
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  25. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    I would prefer Jordan to be on the line and rush, but I suppose he be used to make contact with Gronk and peel off to cover the middle for crosses.

    My memory may be off, but I do recall Jordan being used that way a couple of times and he really didn't look like he knew what he was doing.
     
  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Personally, I'd attack the middle of New England's defense early and often with both the run & pass with Mayo & Wilfork out. I'd maybe utilize more 2 TE sets [namely with Egnew] to keep their coverage-deficient [Hightower & Spikes] and inexperienced [Fletcher, Collins, Beauharnais] LBs on the field as much as possible rather than letting them stay in nickel/dime where they're probably stronger overall and better balanced against the run & pass. When their inexperienced linebackers are in the game I'd stress them as much as possible by flooding their zone & coverage with TEs, slot receivers, and backs, stretch them vertically & horizontally and slip Thomas/Miller in behind them or drag Wallace/Gibson/Clay across the middle, as well as try to get Gibson & Clay isolated against Hightower & Spikes. I'd get Thomas & Miller heavily involved out of the backfield in the passing game until New England's linebackers prove they can stop it.... and then bust them on a wheel route to Thigpen. I'd keep it up until it requires safety assistance and then break out the playaction or pump fake bomb to Wallace. It'd be a good week to employ rollouts to get those big linebackers moving and having to keep up. Let's tire out Hightower & Spikes by strategically trucking them all over the field b/c if we can accomplish that then their run defense will take a big hit.
     
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  27. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Honestly I don't know why we don't do more of what you are saying just about every game. We aren't lacking for personnel to be able to do these things. If it's a Tannehilll issue, then I guess that's another conversation
     
  28. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, I have to say, I certainly think we should try it.

    Game planning I mean. It certainly won't be much worse than what we've tried before.
     
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  29. Griese's Glasses

    Griese's Glasses Well-Known Member

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    All this "Brady's only got 1 TD this year" or "last X games he hasn't done Y". I'm not buying it. I won't even try a sample. This is Tom Brady. You guys remember that last drive that burned NO (a team that made us look like a high-school cheer squad) like they won't ever forget? Do not make the mistake of underestimating an aging QB, not at his level. Expect the best from Brady, expect the best game of his career and plan for that. Going into sunday expecting otherwise is the perfect setup for a good old fashioned Foxborough Fin roast.
     
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  30. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It is likely Tommie Kelly will be out and they will have to start those 2 rookie DTs again. Those guys could not defend the run. If the Fins do not continually run it up the middle a thousand times I will be more worried about his coaching staff. It looks like Talib is 50/50 right now and may return so passing it won't be a strength but if he is out the Fins have to exploit the nickel CB, Logan Ryan's lack of speed. Ryan is great defending short slants and hitches but Wallace can easily burn him deep.
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    To me, I'd put Jordan in the role he was meant to play, a Tiger or Elephant, but with genuine coverage ability, that will spice up our base 4 man DL looks and create some confusion.'

    Seems basic to me that the Pats are weak up the middle of the D, and we cannot pass block on the outside=1+1=2, run the ball at their weakness and conceal our weakness at Tackle.

    I'd also try to exploit that with Rb's going out over the middle vs Spikes, who will be playing fast forward in that scenario

    I'd also play more man coverage than the zone we have been playing, why do Brady any favors by giving him guaranteed open space to throw to in the face of pressure.

    Also think ST has to play better, as Edelman was doing quite well vs the Jest ST unit, once again do not give them free lunches.
     
  32. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Start Jordan at OLB in place of Misi. Send him on almost every down at any angle. If Brady wants to hit the intermediate routes so be it but Jordan would be a terror as a free LB.
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's another thing I forgot, you have a good point. Matthews can easily be used on the outside while Mike Wallace moves into slot and runs clear out, post and corner routes. You could have Matthews break to the inside directly underneath him. You could also run something like a Y-Post with the tight end on the other side of the formation into the space underneath where Wallace is dragging defenders. I'm no coach but I'd have to think there would be some openings there.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Call me crazy, I'd rather have his hand on the ground so that he has a chance at getting quicker pressures. The Patriots OL is good at picking up stunts. When you have him just running upright and being an athlete you're taking away a lot of his steam. Yeah he can run around people, but it takes him time. Have him take off from a three point stance and he's got a 1 in 6 chance at getting in on the quarterback quickly. I'd rather have that.
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    THAT is supposed to be the kind of coverage skill you trust on a tight end like Rob Gronkowski?!?

    All he's doing is lining up close to the line, getting his hands on the player if he can, squatting in a short hook zone, and then (over)pursuing the football. This is not the kind of coverage skill that covers Rob Gronkowski or Jimmy Graham.

    I am sorry. I will never understand this line of reasoning.
     
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  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Yes. If you cover Gronk correctly, like the Jets did a week ago.
     
  37. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    You could extend the line and play a 5-2 with Jordan occasionally dropping.
     
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  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    This is what I had in mind, only I'd like to see him drop into coverage occasionally or play standing up in the middle of the D as JT did in 06.

    To me, take the Ferrari out of the garage and drive it around Foxboro.
     
  39. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I just feel like the center of the line is strong enough to hold up against the run while Jordan pretty much goes toe to toe with a backup TE. Brady picks up blitzes. You might as well just play ball and say hey Tom if you want to run run. Here's my five, stop them. Bring Starks Odrick Shelby Vernon and Jordan.
     
  40. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    They've put a 2nd year safety on him. I think they were fortune it was his first game back.

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
     

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