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Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Fin D, Aug 2, 2015.
In his mind, she was his queen - he even says it right before he kills her. pretty straight forward.
Those don't result in Jon being King, there can only be a King or Queen ruling, and Dany has already said she is the ruler. Marrying a Queen does not make you a King, look at the UK royalty history for proof of that (and a lot of GoT is based on actual UK historical events). The current husband of the Queen of England is not a King, he has an honourary Prince title.
Of course, Jon has a more rightful claim to the title, but he's made it clear he doesn't want it and, if after marrying Dany, the secret became more widely known (which it would have) that would only have created more war with backers of Jon fighting against Dany. Which would have needed a few more seasons to show!
I think Jon really didn't want to have to kill Dany, he tried to give her every reason to show remorse or prove that she would be the Queen he could believe in, but the two lines below from their final conversation proved to him that Dany isn't just waging war to give people freedom to live their lives:
Jon Snow: "What about everyone else?" All the other people who think they know what's good?"
Daenerys: "They don't get to choose."
It’s not my idea, it is Jon’s. Like it or not, Dany was the queen.
Good read below from Isaac Hempstead-Wright (Bran) on his experiences throughout the show.
As an aside, we're having a 2 week holiday in Croatia (Dubrovnik and the islands off the coast) in August, booked it because of a holiday almost 30 years ago in Croatia (which was then part of Yugoslavia) which I loved and have always wanted to re-visit, so nothing to do with GoT filming there, but I will definitely be looking out for some of the locations!
I heard that. But he was still the rightful heir. Therefore it cannot be treason if he was laying claim to what was his or had simply stated that he felt Danys actions and speech showed her to be a power hungry Tyrant. Basically, i dont have an objection to how the show ended with Bran as king, i have an objection to how they arrived there as i think they mishandled an important scene/plotline
It would stretch any sort of believable plot line to have Jon just kill Dany then go sit on the throne and say he's King of the world. I mean of course the Unsullied would (rightfully) cut him down and then we'd have even more War. Jon wouldn't do that, no one would. He never wanted the throne, he wanted Dany to stop butchering innocent people so they could rule together and that would be that. She decided to not only murder an entire city but showed no remorse and even stated openly that she would continue across the entire planet. I mean Jon killing her was merciful, she should have been arrested and executed. I get that people wanted her to redeem herself but its an honest plot and a solid theme that murdering innocents is irredeemable. In a lot of ways Dany was evil, she always had been. She wanted power at all costs, tortured and executed who wouldn't bow to her.
Things actually ended well for Jon, he belongs up in the North living a quiet life among the Wildlings.
You have to think of this situation as if you were Jon not Boik.
Jon renounced his claim numerous times. Therefore, to Jon, he did not have a better claim anymore because it was renounced. There's no take backsees on that.
When Jon killed her, it was the honor thing to do (read: morally just).....BUT, he had a duty to the queen, which she was and killed (read: broke the law and committed treason). The way Jon thinks, even though he did what was morally right, he should still pay the price for breaking the law. Compare that to say Jaime, who also did the morally right thing by killing the mad king, even though it was illegal, but who didn't believe he should suffer for breaking the law because he was morally just. Jaime has proven time and again to not care about rules or laws. Jon, OTOH, has proven that he does care about them.
I see your point and it does make sense- I just wish they had Jon making those decisions instead of the Unsullied.
I think he did make those decisions. The simple fact of the matter, is that if Jon didn't decide to be taken for what he felt were his crimes, then he'd be dead. He would have had to fight multiple Unsullied to escape and likely would have been killed. Nothing about Jon's story says he's a coward or scared to die, so all that is left, is that he felt he should suffer what ever punishment those power saw fit.
Then have him say he didn’t renounce his throne for it to be taken by a tyrant or something to that effect. I think you raise some valid points, I think there were just other (better) ways to arrive at the same conclusion without making it seem like the Unsullied/GreyWorm were telling him what to do.
I immediately thought of Keyfin and Dupree lol
Great list. Pretty much agree.
I'd put Mountain v Viper slightly ahead. But, both great fights. The least interesting character for me was Euron. I understand he needed to be in there but personally I thought he got way too much air time - esp. in season 8, and in the fight against Jamie. Just an annoying character when I wanted to see the others who had been there all along. And I'd flip Arya with Lyanna (But, both were awesome).
My therapy is the thousands of YouTube videos showing all of the dumbness of the last season of Game of Thrones. More of the masses have finally woken up to the ****tiness of writing and show running that is D&D.
Good point about Euron. I'll change my list on that one.
Lyanna, younger, smaller and less trained than Arya, took out a giant white walker with her dying act.......LIKE AN EFFING BOSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!
If she would have lived as long as Arya and been trained by the faceless.....she'd be killing dragons with her bare hands!!!!
If you do need therapy for "Game of Thrones," you are in good company. The show's star, Kit Harrington, who plays Jon Snow, has been in therapy for several years as a result of his role, People Magazine reports. He began seeing a therapist after his character was brutally murdered and then resurrected in a season-ending cliffhanger.
“My darkest period was when the show seemed to become so much about Jon, when he died and came back,” he told the magazine in an interview. “I really didn’t like the focus of the whole show coming onto Jon — even though it was invalidating my problem about being the weak link because things were about Jon.”
LMAO, I don't need therapy....venting here is my therapy! And now I read that Jon needed years of therapy because of what they did to him? That makes him even more worthy to be king!
Heh. She would let a dragon eat her because she would then be able to kill it from the inside out!!!
I figured, it was more meant as a joke.
He sure doesn't sound as down and disgusted as many others.
Also consider this little nod....Bran making Tyrion the Hand to fix his many mistakes is having a Lannister pay his debts.
Is there any evidence that Bran can see into the future and knew he would be the ruler at the end if he influenced certain situations? He did say something like... why did you think I came all the way here? Perhaps he initially pretended he didn't want power. He let everyone kill each other for power and became the last man standing. It was like he schemed the whole thing. I felt he held a life long grudge against Jaime and made him hold on to guilt. So he hated the Lannisters and was quite happy for them to crumble.
Bran doesn't want to rule and he probably won't actually rule. The whole point of the council meeting at the end was to show he is a figurehead. The council is ruling. He will effectively have no real power. They were going about solving problems while he was ****ing off doing other things.
I caught that too. They've stressed that the 3-eyed raven can see the past and the future, so he definitely knew. He said he didn't want power....yet he traveled all that way to take the throne after knowing full well what would happen (remember, he saw the visions of the dragon burning the keep to the ground several seasons ago).
However, if he had told Jon a few seasons back to avoid the white haired girl sitting on a dragon, then they probably wouldn't have defeated the night king and all was for nothing. So there was definitely some strategy there that had to be played...I still think Bran is evil though. They kept referencing the bond between him and the night king; I have a feeling in the books he takes the night king's role. We'll see though.
I hope he can finish before he dies. He’s very old and very fat.
Bran is the main villain. The Children of the Forest have finally gotten their revenge.
I don't see Bran as a villain or evil. He can see the future and past, but does being able to do that mean he should act on it? What happens if acting on what he can see makes it worse? I would say the 3ER is more a benign/neutral role, rather than evil.
I didn't want to see him become King though, if only because his staring into space and lack of emotion and/or brief mystical answers when speaking really annoyed the **** out of me! Maybe in keeping with what his character was meant to be, but still annoying.
The perfect ruler for the new direction of power of the 6K needs these things:
_ Male (because the people just went through Cersei then were attacked by Dani)
_ Doesn't want the power
_ Not an heir to any of the previous kings
_ Has a good story the people could get behind and relate to
_ Can't sire heirs
_ Willing to be nothing but a figurehead
No character checked all those boxes besides Bran. The only active decisions or actions Bran took since becoming the 3ER, was to stop the Night King. The path that lead him to becoming King were all on actions and decisions of others. That is further proof this wasn't his plan or goal. Again, the council scene shows he's not going to take an active part in ruling at all.
In the end, Sansa is THE most powerful character. She is the only house leader beholden to no power above her AAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNDDDDDDD she has significant sway with Bran and Tyrion.
Sansa never bent the knee to Dany either. She had her pegged from the start. The Stark women were the smartest characters in the show.
Lots of laughs.
The greatest difference between Daenerys Targaryen and Genghis Khan is that Dany had boobs & dragons and Genghis didn’t.
Greatest thing ever. Watch till the end:
I laughed. I'm both. I'm happy and unhappy. I'm chaotic neutral.
It doesn't appear that there are any scenes since well, what Season 4 or 5? Does that imply that is how long it took him to create that?
Totally lazy. heard ragtop like 6 times in the show.
I’d like to see him try it with Funky Cold Medina.
This is a poster from season 1 of GOT. And some say the destined ruler was revealed in it almost 10 years ago-
You probably noticed Ned Stark...but who's to his left? (well, his right, our left) I'll be darned if it's not the 3-Eyed Raven. Coincidence....or did they give us clues all along? The title is appropriate too- you win or you die. We know Ned died and the Raven lived....hmm.
Looks like a regular raven/crow
Agreed, but I don’t see why a crow would be randomly placed there, do you?
The fourth book is literally called A Feast For Crows. They use ravens to do all of their communicating.
Just thinking about Game of Thrones. The first 3 seasons were amazing, then it just got worse from there. For me at least. Basically, after season 5, I jumped off the Game of Thrones train. Which made me so sad. I have loved this story since 2004. Giving out awards is fun, so I want to as well.
3. Joffrey - I wanted to see a child die. All because of Jack Gleenson. He did an amazing job of bringing such an amazingly horrible character to life.
2. Tyrion - Peter Dinklage was their only choice for this character. And he fit. He killed it. Just too handsome.
1. Arya - When I first saw her it is like the picture in my head was on the screen. Maisie Williams has reached David Putty levels of I will always imagine the character taking up the role, rather than the actor.
Honorable mentions: Jamie, Sansa, Robb Stark, Cersei, Robert Baratheon, Theon, Tywin, Ygritte, Eddard, Hodor, Oberyn, almost too many to mention
Best Changes from the Book:
3. No Griff, and eliminating those three jerks who traveled from somewhere to court Dany that I care so little I don't even want to look them up.
2. The added conversations in the first season. I loved seeing Cersi and Robert have a conversation together. That was a beautiful touch.
1. Tywin meets Arya. Even though I knew how that part of the story would play out, I still felt the tension of that little game of wits. It was obvious Tywin knew Arya was more than she seemed, just never put it together. Good job showrunners.
Worst Changes from the book:
3. Shae. This one is personal to me. I am one of the few Shae fans. When I saw her and the changes they needed to make and listening to D&D explain that they changed the character because they wanted to work with the actress, I was worried. All my worries came through as they didn't make enough changes to the overall story and had to eliminate Tosha, which was just silly.
2. Sansa marrying Ramsey Bolton. Making that character more important that he should be was annoying enough. However, making Sansa marry him by choice based on Petyr Baelish was terrible. Made him look so stupid. Plus throwing in more RAPE. D&D loved throwing in more rape into Game of Thrones
1. Dorne. I hated Dorne. I disliked Dorne in the books, and yet the TV show made it worse. The plot made zero sense. Ended up getting revenge on the death of Oberyn, who was trying to get revenge for his sister by killing his uncle? Did they not even think about this? I had hoped they would cut Dorne. Wow. This is when I realized that there was no way they could finish this story well.
Honorable mentions: Turning Arya into Batman, Euron into a mustache-twirling supervillain instead of a weird wizard, Dario into a boring hot guy, No Strong Belwas , Jaime raping Cersei in front of Joffrey's corpse.
Characters who are better than the books.
3. Margaery Tyrell. It is hard to choose. The books are great. however, they mentioned how beautiful she was, and they got a great actress to pull it off. Plus she had more character in the show. I mostly remember her complaining about things and buttering up her husbands.
2. Tormund Giantsbane. He felt like a nonentity in the book. I barely remember the guy. He is fun on the show. Loved how he looked at Brienne
1. Brienne. I did not like the character in the books. I was super annoyed when they added her point of view. Part of me is hoping Lady Stoneheart just continues to hang her, but you know she won't. Gwendoline Christie did an amazing job in this role. Made a better character
3. Bronn vs Knight of the Vale - Fight was fun in the book and fun to watch. I loved how they showed quickness can beat good armor.
2. Brienne vs The Hound - This fight was a fun one. A little long. A nice change from the books actually. I liked it.
1. Oberyn vs the Mountain - This one was special. It was so great. Just book to show perfection. So much emotion, storytelling. Everything you want in a fight between two people.
3. Stannis attack on Kings Landing. Smaller budget. Missed Tyrion's chain. Loved watching Peter cut someone's leg off. That speech before they attacked was great. "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them.
2. Hardhome. This one showed that the Night King was nothing to mess with. Until he was easy to kill. Just devastation. Also, hope when Jon killed a White Walker with his Valerian sword. Another good thing D&D did. Too bad they wasted such an amazing battle.
1. Wildlings attacking the wall. This was the first big battle where they got the effects. It was beautiful. It had tactics. It had storytelling. It was easy to see what was going on. I love this one!
MVPs of the Show
3. Casting Director. The cast was outstanding. Literally amazing. The acting was so good on this show. Even when I thought the writing was total crap, they delivered it well for the most part. For such a sprawling cast, I cannot think of another show that got close to having top to bottom good to great acting. Especially with so many younger actors.
2. Music. The music is always good. Even though I hated the last season, the music was spot on.
1. Cinematographer and Set Designers. This show was almost always beautiful. Other than a few issues, the show always looked great. Hard to believe that it exists.